planning my qualifying cross country

[aerofoil1]

hello all,
ive got my solo x country to do in a month weather permitting.
has anyone flown the route tatenhill-gloucester-leicester-tatenhill?
im a bit concerned about the leg from leicester to tatenhill as a straight line would take me very close to east mids controlled airspace and i dont really fancy a telling off from ATC as its right on the edge of my planned route.
what would you do? descend to say 1,300ft to stay below or just head for the lichfield NDB and make another leg?
if im off track to the east of swadlincote then id be in trouble as id have to be pretty much spot on with the route
im sure loads of fellow aviators have done this route?
what do you advise?:rolleyes::ugh::ok:

[glush]

Not sure how old the map is you're looking at. Lichfield NDB is long gone.

Routing via the Measham VRP would keep you clear, I'm not much of a fan of low level nav unless its unavoidable.

Presumably the rest of your route keeps you clear of the Birmingham CTR, because it looks to me like Tatenhill -> Glos takes you into their CTR, and the leg Gloucester to Leicester takes you inside the 1500' part of the Birmingham CTA....

[Whopity]

Talk to them, that's what the radio is for!

[aerofoil1]

I have a current half mill map it shows the lichfield NDB on there but as we know it's not working !! When was it closed down why does the map still depict it and yes I'll have a chat with woody I'm sure he will advise just wanted some feedback thanks guys

[stevelup]

As glush said, that routing takes you right through the CTR. It's also three miles short of the minimum distance!

Why don't you route past Halfpenny Green? That'll take you well clear of the lower parts of the CTA and they have a working NDB.

For the Gloucester to Leicester leg, you could route via Draycott Water.

Stick your various routes into SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com) and experiment that way.

You could ask Birmingham for transits, and they may well give them to you, but in my opinion, messing around with uncertainties on your QXC is not a good plan.

[MFC_Fly]

My suggested routing would be...

Leg 1: Tatenhill - M6 Hilton Park Services (VRP) - Kidderminster - Gloucester
at 3000'.

Leg 2: Gloucester - Gaydon (disused airfield) - Draycott Water (VRP) - Leicester at 3000'.

Leg 3: Leicester - Measham (M42 J11 VRP) - Tatenhill at 2000'.

Not familiar with the areas airspace, but looks perfectly OK on SkyDemon.

MFC

[aerofoil1]

Forgot to mention halfpenny green as my turning point!
So the route my CFI had advised is
Leg 1 tatenhill-halfpenny green
Leg 2 halfpenny-Gloucester direct
Leg 3 Gloucester- draycott water
Leg 4 draycott-Leicester
Leg 5 Leicester- measham VRP
Leg 6 measham- tatenhill
Leg 7 tatenhill to nearest pub for a pint as I will so need one!!!
I'm looking forward to it just want everything planned out the best way I'm planning on the whole route at 2,300ft

[madlandrover]

I have a current half mill map

No, you don't ;)

[aerofoil1]

Madlandrover
Your right Just checked the caa campaign against aviation ! Website and edition 37 half mill was published in march dog I'll have to order w new one

[cats_five]

...
im a bit concerned about the leg from leicester to tatenhill as a straight line would take me very close to east mids controlled airspace
...

Who said you had to fly in a straight line?

[Scott C]

Leg 1 Tatenhill - Halfpenny Green
Leg 2 Halfpenny Green - Gloucester
Leg 3 Gloucester - Draycott Water
Leg 4 Draycott - Leicester
Leg 5 Leicester - Measham VRP
Leg 6 Measham VRP - Tatenhill

That's similar to the route I did 2 years ago except I used Lichfield NDB instead, as it was active then.

I think ALL students at Tatenhill use that route for their QXC! Good Luck! :-)

[tmmorris]

At least you're doing it that way round... on my QXC we did Welshpool - Gloucester - Tatenhill - Welshpool. Two of us did it on the same day about 20 minutes apart (much to the amusement of several controllers en route) and the chap ahead of me overshot Tatenhill and bust East Midlands airspace.

To be fair to him

a. I knew the area - I used to live in Burton - so I recognised ground features (Rugely power station, the reservoir) well before spotting Tatenhill;

b. he did realise what he'd done and called EMA to get them to sort him out.

I wonder what happened to him? Forgotten his name, now; skinny chap in his early 20s. This was in 2001. Is he out there somewhere?

Tim

[aerofoil1]

Tim
Yes I'm sure the controllers were scratching there head they must have thought it was the red bull race or something would be great if someone else was flying that route the same day as me irm like my CFI I'll let him go in front I'll follow and throw the map out if the window anyway I can't plan much more I've gone through the route dozens of times I just wNt to fly it now and enjoy will post on here how it goes in sept !!

[aerofoil1]

Thanks Scott
That's pretty much the route I'm intending to fly execpt I'll go direct to tatenhill from Leicester dog leg around swadlincote should just keep me from busting controlled airspace I've flown that part if the route before when I flew from derby

[thing]

My QFC was the most enjoyable bit of my PPL training, (Sywell and Cambridge were my landaways) the feeling of 'crikey I can fly around, land at other places and not get lost or cock up the circuit' is very satisfying. Enjoy!

[LeeP-PA28]

Why not just speak to East Midlands Radar when possible and request a clearance? You don't have to use it, but you've got the comfort in knowing that you won't get a letter from the all mighty :) I've always found them very very accommodating when transiting their airspace.

[aerofoil1]

Lee
That is my plan as long as I keep the lake on my right I shouldn't bust the airspace but I will contact them once I've left Leicester to be on the safe side !

[Whiskey Charlie]

So the route my CFI had advised is
Leg 1 tatenhill-halfpenny green



Aerofoil1, just remember always think ahead of the aircraft, if something happens slightly differently on the day do not panic, and finally don't become engrossed by the instruments or radios in the cockpit- keep a very good lookout especially when approaching ATZ's.

Just out of interest who are you training with at Tatenhill? Would you recommend them?

:ok:

[aerofoil1]

Whiskey Charlie
Yes I'll be keeping a very good look out I was planning on using the nav aids for help but only as an aid i fly with Dave wood or woody he is one of the CFIs I fly with I'd recommend him but be aware he is totally strict and keeps you under pressure all the time! Doesn't allow the slightest mistake but he is good and obviously knows his stuff ultimately it should make you a better pilot Only problem with me is I can only fly on Saturday's as I work in the week so at weekends it gets busy especially when it's nice weather but that's probably the same with most small flying schools

[Quadrophenia]

Hi
Did the very same route a couple of months ago for my QCX.
From Tatenhill, aim for Blithfield reservior south (large straight dam and easily seen once airbourne) It also allows you to settle down and assess conditions.
Once there change direction and head for Bridgnorth. This route should avoid any built up areas but there are lots of VRPs to help you on route.
At Bridgnorth, turn south and a straight line should take you directly to Gloucester. You can you the Malverns in the distance as a goods VRP to assess track.
From Gloucester to Leicester was a straight route to Draycott VRP and also use Rugby Cement works although it is not an official VRP. Draycott to Leicester should take you very close to Bruntingthorpe airfield which you can't miss.
Now then... out from Leicester, I chose to head for Nuneaton VRP, a disused airfield now used as a test track on the A5. It is quite easy to see from a reasonable distance. Turn NW from this point and follow the TNL NDB home from 10 miles out.

I know it sounds easy sitting here but appreciate what you are going through.
Good Luck.

[Scott C]

That seem like a very unusual route to get to Gloucester!

As I mentioned in a previous post, when I did my QXC 2 years ago:

EGBM - Overhead Halfpenny Green (EGBO)
EGBO - Gloucester (EGBJ)

Had a drink in the cafe, then:

EGBJ - Overhead Wellesbourne (EGBW)
EGBW - Leicester (EGBG)

Had lunch and stayed for about 1hr 30mins in total, then:

EGBG - LIC NDB (Although you could now use Lichfield VRP or Measham VRP)
LIC NDB - EGBM


When I fly down to Gloucester nowadays, I either go EGBM - EGBO - EGBJ or I ask Birmingham for a Zone Transit and fly direct via their overhead.


Happy Flighting! :)

[The500man]

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "everyone else planning my qualifying cross country". Planning the route is part of the challenge if you like, which is why your instructor wants you to plan it instead of telling you exactly how to fly it. Your instructor should expect you to brief him/ her on your chosen route and will then be able to tell you if anything is wrong with it or what to be careful of. Posting here and asking for help is self defeating.

[Pull what]

Leg 1 Tatenhill - Halfpenny Green
Leg 2 Halfpenny Green - Gloucester
Leg 3 Gloucester - Draycott Water
Leg 4 Draycott - Leicester
Leg 5 Leicester - Measham VRP
Leg 6 Measham VRP - Tatenhill

Beware of the possibilities of leg 7 to the local magistrates court if you penetrate controlled airspace!

[Pull what]

I would question the wisdom of any school/instructor who sends solo students close to controlled airspace if it is not necessary. A qualifying X country should be a relaxing experince not an ordeal.

[BEagle]

From Leicester to Tatenhill, wouldn't the Nuneaton VRP be a safer bet to avoid airspace infringment:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Nuneaton.jpg

Only about 3½ miles longer than routing via the Measham VRP and the route would be further away from controlled airspace.

[Pull what]

Nuneaton would be my choice too for a student-its a lot more prominent than Measham but I would go via Mallory Park racetrack because.
1. You could mistake Nuneaton for Mallory anyway
2. If you miss Mallory it gives you more time to think of avoiding Bham CA
3 You should be able to see Nuneaton from Mallory
4 You should always have the belts and braces of two check points to keep you clear of CA-EG if you miss Nuneaton and keep going you will violate Bham CA

Consideration should be given to how you position from Leicester after TO if you are of the school thats turns directly on track after departure with a northerley element that could put you close to EMA.

The junction of the M69/M1 is a good exit point

[Pull what]

What nonsense. Controlled airspace is part of flying. If you train at say Newcastle you are in the zone so you HAVE to deal with it! Same for East Midlands.

Tatenhill is right beside East Midlands zone, and close to Birmingham. PPL training is about preparing the student for real life without the instructor, after the licence is obtained. Dealing with Controlled airspace is part of that training.

On my QXC donkeys years ago the first thing I did was call for a zone transit as the airfield I trained from was almost (but not quite) under part of a zone. We practiced it, I was taught how to do it, and it wasn't a big deal. Well I cannot argue with you that ,CA is part of flying, stalling is part of flying too but its not carried out an a QXC, well not to often anyway.

The Lasors requirement for a QXC is to fly a 150nm solo XC with two full stop landings at different airfields. there is no requirement to cross CA -run down the side of a zone or have anything to do with CA at all. I believe that the mere fact that a solo student flys this distance & lands at two different airfields without upsetting anyone is sufficient and I want he or she to have the most enjoyable relaxing experience possible coupled with complete safety. I reiterate, the test is flying the distance, getting to the two airfields and getting home that is all that is required.I http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gifworked at a flying school that used to send solo students down the Manchester low level route between Manchester and Liverpool, I would say that 2 out of every 3 students penetrated the Zone. I in fact refused to send students down the lane and eventually after several warnings from Manchester so did the school.

There is plenty of time on the syllabus to investigate CA with an instructor as part of a dual navigation sortie and (as I/we do) part of the skills test (we insist that the diversion is to an airfield within CA)

In relation to the Tattenhill Leicester route I would not even send a QXC along any part of that route because its a very busy piece of airspace which funnels GA traffic routing North South between EMA and BHX and there have been quite a few conflictions in that area, one fatal.

Of course if you are learning to fly in CA that's a totally different matter that's why i said-'if it is not necessary'.

I see you base your opinion on your QXC donkeys years ago and a successful zone transit-well done. My 'nonsense' is based on 35 years instructional experience including CFI of two schools in a CTZ and as an airline captain who on many occasions has heard students unsure of their position inside CA.

Oh and the CAA's advice and this is for experienced pilots

3. Where possible, avoid planning to fly close to controlled airspace boundaries. If you do need to do so, be very careful. A small navigational error or distraction of any sort can lead to an infringement – and it doesn’t take much to ruin your day!