PAX Use of GPS

[paulo]

Anyone know any airlines that have any kind of restrictive policy on this?

Lufthansa FAs were okay with me and my Garmin the other week. Nice to be able to explore the features in a flight situation, without having traffic to worry about.

[DVR6K]

Good question coz I got a GPS for Christmas and have transported it backwards and forwards from Madrid to the UK twice, but never had the guts to ask if it was ok to have a go.

Does it work ok in the cabin? GPS signals are not particularly strong and don't work too well in my flat if it ain't right next to a window so does it work hunched up next to 34A?

Ta

[Roy Mallard]

Ref GPS in the cabin, in my experience it certainly works, especially beside a window.

[GoneWest]

My Garmin 92 didn't work - even in a window seat - on a DC9 from Orlando to Atlanta.

I was trying to use the 2inch aerial/antenna still attached to the unit...not on the extension lead and window sucker.

[twinkletoes]

You do need to be close to a window but be prepared for some strange looks. 1 from pax as anoraks unnerve them. 2 from cabin crew, as a possible security risk, particularly since 09.

[747FOCAL]

You keep you 2 inch antennae off this plane. :)

[RadarContact]

Since it's a receiving device only (unlike mobiles etc.) there should be no problem using a GPS on an airplane, as long as you stick to the usual rules (not during takeoff/landing).. .Be prepared, however, to quickly turn it off when told so by the cabin staff! We've had some funny things happening during a flight and found out after asking everybody that 3 (!) people had been using GPS-receivers in the cabin at the same time.. .A good thing would be to ask in advance just to let everybody know you're using it...

[What a Loop]

I took my Skyforce II moving map with me on a trip to Finland recently, Was asked by the flight attendant what I was doing, as I did have the attenna stuck onto the window.

Once I explained what it was she dissapeared and on returning told me that the Captian objected and could I switch it off.

Fellow passenger later told me that she just went up the cabin then came back, never having asked the captian.

So the next time I think I will ask prior to taking it. As I was definatly given some strange looks by the flight crew after that.

Best advice I could give after this is to ask the chief steward if he can check with the flight deck if the have any problems with it.

[OzExpat]

I think that any SLF doing anything that is at all out of the ordinary runs risks. Many folks are still a bit edgy these days. You may find yourself being regarded with outright suspicion, or worse.

[rolling circle]

A GPS is a device for the reception of RF energy and, like any other receiver, will also radiate a small amount of RF energy whenever it is switched on (that's how the TV detector van finds you). In the absence of any RFI test results for individual receivers/aircraft, it would be wise for the crew to require them to be switched off at all times.

[paulo]

DVR6K - My GPS III Pilot worked brilliantly. I had a window seat, but windows on a CRJ700 aren't too big (in fact, nothing on a CRJ700 is very big), and yet it still worked fine sat on the tray.

rolling circle - Garmin, Bendix/KING etc make aviation GPS units. These GPS units are for use in aeroplanes. That's what they do. I don't think they'll be taken off the market any time soon due to your personal testing requirements. :-)

Irrelevent technical comments aside, I guess the polite thing to do is ask and have it cleared by flight crew.

[paulo]

DVR6K - In your flat?!? Just how much navigation is involved in your flat? Do you have an IMC or IR rating? Do you practice partial panel - e.g. cover up the microwave clock, or whatever?

And then there's the run up

"washing machine set 1200rpm, looking good, now to economy - rpm reduction good". ."boiler on, immersion heater on, landing lights on". ."G-FLAT at hold for three two [Acacia Avenue], ready for, err, staying here."

I guess you don't use the breadcrumbing features much.

:) :) :)

[ttp]

I've used GPS Rx many times, even had the captain come back & have a look when it was connected to a laptop computer.

The latest issue of the American Airlines magazines contains a ban on all transmitting & receiving equipment.

[Jetdriver]

This question came up a while ago..

...My company most definetaly prohibit the use of hand held GPS units in flight !

This arose as the result of a report to the CAA concerning an incident that resulted in "in-flight interference caused by a handheld GPS unit", from another UK based airline.

These toys are receivers and there use on board an aircraft is as irresponsible as is using a mobile telephone or a radio receiver.

Wait until you arrive at your destination and play with them all to your hearts content.

As a matter of policy it is ultimately a decision for the airline, the regulatory authority and finally the Captain.

[rolling circle]

Paulo - the fact that some GPS units are intended for use in aeroplanes is wholly irrelevant to the discussion. They are, in fact, intended to be fitted to aeroplanes under an approved installation scheme which will be designed to ensure a satisfactory level of RFI protection. However, when they are waved around the cabin by the SLF they are as likely to cause problems as any other RF source.

[DVR6K]

Paulo,

You'd be surprised how useful a GPS can be in a flat. You know what it's like, come back pi55ed, can't find bedroom, yet it's surprisingly easy to use the GPS, funny that isn't it?

Hehe.

Flying to MAD on Wednesday with BD so will ask them to see what they think about the use of a GPS in flight...

[twistedenginestarter]

You may well ask what possible pleasure these sad people get from looking at track, groundspeed and elevation for several hours. Rather that ask them to switch their devices off wouldn't it be more humane all round to open the door and lob them out of their own and everyone else's misery?

Unfortunately however this must be a more common human flaw as I notice most aircraft are now fitted with passenger navigation displays. The cabin crew seem a bit cavalier with these and tend to switch them off in order to show some execrable BBC sit com presumably designed to put the passenger under such pain and stress they don't notice how dreadful the all-day deli is.

If they left on the nav, we be spared both the trash and would have no excuse to switch on GPSs thus bring the plane down killing all on board...

[radeng]

Being professionally involved in radio engineering, Electro Magnetic Compatability and international standards for radio, I fully agree with rolling circle. I think I noticed that SAS don't allow them either.

As an SLF, the only electronics I like to see pax use in flight are pacemakers and hearing aids. the next generation of pacemakers that can transmit the stored data will be interesting from this viewpoint, although the transmitters won't be capanle of being operated without special equipment

[paulo]

Rolling; handheld units should be fitted under an approved installation scheme? Who do I call? Do they fit it to my hand, or do they fit my hand to my plane? If the plane is group owned, do we all need to have our hands fitted? This is all very confusing.

[paulo]

OK, back to the actual question, below is an anecdotal list, out of date for sure.

Anyone got any updates (aside from deleting the carriers no longer with us?) I suspect that the majority being in the approved list is no longer the case post 911.

--------snip from the web-------

Airlines who (allegedly) approve(d) of GPS Use:

Air Canada . .Air New Zealand . .Air Malaysia . .Ansett Australia (No official policy, but do not prohibit use.) . .Britannia Airlines . .British Airways . .Canadian Airlines . .Cathay Pacific . .CAAC (China Airlines) . .Continental Airlines (as of November 2000) . .CrossAir . .Delta Airlines . .Egypt Air . .Icelandair . .Jet Airways (India) . .LOT Polish Airlines . .Maersk Air (Denmark) . .Qantas . .Reno Airlines . .Singapore Air Lines . .South African Airways . .Southwest Airlines . .Sun Country (Regional USA) . .Swissair . .United Air Lines (may ask if your GPS is FCC Class B approved. All handhelds are. Show them in the manual.). .US Airways (was US Air) . .Vanguard Airlines . .Virgin Airlines

. .Airlines which OFFICIALLY DO NOT APPROVE the use of GPS receivers at ANY time during flight.

(*) Individual Pilots may allow GPS use.

Alaska Airlines (as of 04/01). .Air Tran . .America West Airlines . .American Airlines (as of 21 July 2000) . .EasyJet (UK) . .FinnAir . .Hawaiian Airlines(*) . .Horizon Airlines(*) . .KLM . .MidWest Express . .Midway Express . .Northwest (as of 2 Sept 2000) . .Ryanair (Irish) . .SAS (Scandinavian Airline System) . .Spirit Airlines . .TWA . .Varig Airlines

[paulo]

Here's a URL with some informed discussion, links to FAA, Boeing, emission tests on the Garmin GPS III etc.

<a href="http://www.gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm</a>

Interesting read, notwithstanding PIC jurisdiction, which is not in question.