Getting my PPL - advice please!

[Ds3]

Hi all, new to the forums and to flying in general so treat me gently please :D

Seriously considering getting my PPL and looking for some advice / observations. I'm sure you guys get asked about this all the time, I have read many other threads and picked up useful info but have some specific questions.

I've looked briefly at intensive overseas courses but don't think they're for me. I've not piloted a plane before and I feel that learning in the area I will be flying in, and taking a bit of time over it will make me a more confident pilot. I'd also have the flexibility of walking away after a few lessons if I decide it's not for me.

I live near Cambridge / Peterborough, can anyone recommend a good place to commence training from? I'm looking for somewhere competitively priced but preferably with planes that stay in the air!!

There seems to be a raft of different aircraft you can learn in, although the Cessna pops up regularly. My preference leans towards a low wing plane like the Robin HR200 but that opinion is completely uneducated and based purely on the fact they look a bit more 'sporty' :D Is there really much difference once you're up in the air and should I be looking for a specific type of plane to learn in?

Once you have your license, how easy is it to jump in a plane and head over to, lets say, France for lunch and a glass of wine (joking!)? Aside from use of the plane, what are the associated costs and complications?

Any other advice much appreciated!

[AdamFrisch]

Only thing I would say is that if you have the money saved, try to do it in one go or compressed as it saves time. By coming down every three weeks and doing a lesson, you will have forgotten more than you learn, so it will take much longer to get done. Granted, sometimes one needs to earn the money as one goes along, so then that's the only option. But doing it as fast as possible will be cheaper and more consistent.

High wing vs. low wing is the longest argument going. But I can tell you that a Cessna is pretty much the perfect training plane. And the cramped little 152 is cheap to train in and flies well and is very forgiving. You can screw up landings, stalls, approaches and it will never bite.

[pmcobban]

Check your PM

[o7i]

I know a huge amount of people learn in Cessnas but personally I never liked high wing planes. I did the majority of my training in a HR200 and really enjoyed it. The only issue you might have is that it is a lot more sensitive than a C152/172 and so might suggest starting in one of those or a pa28.

If you have a school near you which has all three have each of your first few lessons in a different one and you will get an idea of which is for you. I expect you would find a robin or C152 are a similar price and then a pa28 or c172 would be a little higher.

After you have your license it is surprisingly easy to jump accross to france, however the costs for most things in aviation are high... especially if it involves the CAA! Plane hire has got a lot more expensive even in the few years I have been flying and is hard to keep up with but it is an amazing feeling when you get your license through the post.

[Mimpe]

I wont answer all your questions, but I would advise you try to do a flight at least every week when learning. You can maintain fresh momentum, and especially in the uk I would imagine that cancellations due to weather would degrade any less frequent schedule, leaving you quite rusty at the beginning of each lesson. Also, try to look out for an instructor who is a bit older and who also teaches instrument flight. That type of instructor will have the kind of professionalism that you will need to habitually cultivate to be a safe private pilot. Also, have a close look at the quality of the aircraft condition, and the tidiness of the organisations office.
The other main point to make is to never underestimate the importance of your preparation for a flight,and have a keen understanding of the weather, and the state of your judgement when you make decisions in the air. Always build in generous safety margins.

[The Fenland Flyer]

My advice is to try out fixed wing microlights before commiting yourself to going down the cessna/piper route. There is a excellent microlight school in your area: www.aaa-microlight.co.uk (http://www.aaa-microlight.co.uk)

[Ds3]

Cheers guys, I kinda have the money saved, but I'll be looking to pay most of it out of the disposable income that I'm lucky enough to have at the moment!

I'm generally a quick learner, i.e. passed my driving test first time to the advanced standard after very minimal instruction, but naturally understand flying is more complicated.

Having done a bit more research, I like the look of Sibson Flying School in Peterborough, does anyone have any experience of them?

AdamFrisch, thanks for your comments on low wing v high wing, would you say something such as a Robin is not as forgiving as the Cessna 152 to a learner?

pmcobban, thanks for the message to which I have replied.

[tmmorris]

Popping over to France for lunch - pretty easy, though a little paperwork is required (flight plan, General Aviation Report, and usually 24hrs notice to customs where you want to land); plus flying over the sea can be tricky if there is no clear horizon so you might want to do some basic instrument flying first.

If you are renting from a club, it's quite likely they'll want an instructor to go with you the first time you do it; although this will put the cost up a bit, it's a good idea and will reassure you, plus he/she will make sure you have done the paperwork right the first time.

On the plus side, you can reclaim the duty paid on the fuel you 'exported' so that will help with the cost.

Tim

[AdamFrisch]

I have never flown a Robin, but I've heard good things about them. Generally wood spar wings ride a bit smoother than aluminium (according to owners), so could be a benefit.

[Whopity]

Given the choice of a Robin or a 152, I'd take the Robin any day. The HR200 is actually metal not wood.

[foxmoth]

But I can tell you that a Cessna is pretty much the perfect training plane.
In some peoples book - not mine.

Given the choice between Robin and Cessna/Piper I would definitely go for the Robin. IMHO it is not that the Robin is more sensitive, it is just better harmonised and has crisper controls, making it nicer to fly. As far as "forgiving" goes, not really a lot of difference.
My view of Cessna/Piper is that these are designed to transport you from A-B with minimum interference from the pilot, the Robin is more of a flying machine.
I would also strongly go with the suggestion of doing it intensively.

Enjoy

[Ds3]

Thanks all, seem to be a general consensus that the Robin is more enjoyable to fly, and given that I'm only in this for the pleasure aspect it seems to be more suited. I've booked a trial lesson this weekend at Sibson who have both at the same price, so I'll have a test drive and see what I think!

Another question; I note most clubs rent out planes per hour, usually on a brakes on / brakes off basis. What is the normal situation if you want a plane for a couple of days; do you still only pay for actual flying time, or do they charge you per hour for time the aircraft is away from base as well?

[mrmum]

Depends on the organisation you rent off, probably will still charge c-c, but may insist on a minimum daily amount of hours, this may differ weekdays to weekends.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Another question; I note most clubs rent out planes per hour, usually on a brakes on / brakes off basis. What is the normal situation if you want a plane for a couple of days; do you still only pay for actual flying time, or do they charge you per hour for time the aircraft is away from base as well?
As mrmum says. They might for example want to be paid for a minium of three hours on a Saturday or Sunday, whether you fly them or not, but impose no minimum on a weekday when they'd have had an idle aircraft anyway.

The only times I've taken an aircraft for a whole day from a club with a 3 hour weekend rule they haven't actually charged me for any more than the 2hr 45 flying I actually did.

[Ds3]

Just by way of an update - had my first hour in the skies yesterday :D No question now that I want to pursue my PPL and as others have mentioned, I think it'll be better if I get it done asap rather than dragging it out.

I went up to Sibson to try out the Robin and whilst I have nothing to compare it to, it was certainly great fun to fly. I was amazed how sensitive the controls were but it was very manageable and very quickly became second nature keeping it straight and level, turning etc.

I have visited Bourn as well, which whilst not having the facilities of Sibson was very friendly and relaxed. I also intend to pop in to Conington to have a look around. However, I was impressed with with the set up at Sibson therefore my gut feeling is that now I've started there in the Robin I should probably continue.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I doubt you'll regret that decision Ds3.

Regarding the issue of taking an aeroplane away from base -most renters really don't like you doing that at weekends and will charge a minimum daily useage. Some will do the same in the week, some won't.

If you want that sort of regular flexibility to take an aeroplane away for a period and not fly it every day, then buying a share in an aeroplane syndicate will give you that. There are many syndicates around and the best starting point will be notice boards at the airfield you're flying at. However, I'd not recommend buying a share until you have a PPL.

I'll also add another voice saying get regular lessons. In British weather you'll lose a lot of slots, so I'd book at-least two per week in the expectation of flying hopefully about once per week.

G

[Ds3]

Thanks for the advice Genghis. Funnily enough I asked Sibson that question today whilst booking another slot for Saturday. They seemed very flexible and said that usually they'd expect a minimum of 2.5 - 3 hours flying, however if on a weekday and they weren't busy then they wouldn't worry about that too much.

Buying a share is certainly a consideration, but as you say I won't look at that until after I've got my PPL. One step at a time! I've got my medical certificate after much prodding and poking, so PPL next then I'll consider my options from there. Would imagine I'll want to add night flying at some point too.

Roll on Saturday (and good weather!) :cool:

[Magic90]

I fly at Conington Flying Club, I looked at Sibson but I much prefer a hard runway over grass. Conington have a good social life too as well as excellent QFIs.

[I Love Flying]

Just so you know, you can get your Night Qualification whilst training for your PPL...:D

[Ds3]

Might see you about then Magic90, no doubt I'll be landing at Connington at some point. I'm quite enjoying the Sibson runway, it's challenging with the power cables at one end and trees at the other, especially on a short runway! Always good to learn the hard way!

I love flying - that I did not know. If I can get my night wings towards the end of my ppl training that'd be really handing. I shall consult my instructor.