Tech Log not signed by Inbound Captain

[Neupielot]

Is it acceptable ( in your company ) for the out-bound commander to sign on-behalf of the inbound captain who has forgottten to sign off the tech log?

What is the "normal" procedure in most ( or all ) airlines regarding this issue?

We had this few nights ago but luckily the commander was still at the airport carpark.

I'm just thinking....what he'd left and you can't get hold of him....?

Many thanks.:O

[spannersatcx]

The scenario should be covered in your procedures manual, if not then it needs rewriting.

[sb_sfo]

In my outfit, we deal with that possibility by maintenance staff meeting every arrival, debriefing at the flight deck door, and verifying together that the log has been signed. The reverse when the aircraft is turned, verifying the release signature. Has the side benefit of better maintenance coverage.

[Lonewolf_50]

In my outfit, we deal with that possibility by maintenance staff meeting every arrival, debriefing at the flight deck door, and verifying together that the log has been signed. The reverse when the aircraft is turned, verifying the release signature.
Has the side benefit of better maintenance coverage.
Looks like an industry "best practice" to me. :ok:

[fireflybob]

I suppose, legally speaking, only the commander can sign the tech log since he/she is certifying that any defects have been entered or "nil" as the case may be and that the times and details of the last sector are correct.

If the FO is dispatched to do any post flight paperwork and no engineers meet the a/c then there is a possibility that the Commander may omit to append the tech log and/or even turn the emergency exits lights off and/or the battery.

Normal practice is that the FO monitors the Captain. In the case where there are no engineers to meet the a/c then maybe it is prudent to retain the FO at the a/c to confirm/crosscheck that important post flight actions have been completed correctly. Otherwise it's all down to one guy and the human being who never makes a mistake or omission has yet to be invented.

However, I feel that from a practical point of view so long as the Commander can be contacted by phone to confirm the arrival details there is no reason why he shouldn't delegate the entry/signature to a responsible person.

[Slasher]

Varies from outfit to outfit.

In one company I worked for, if the errant captain couldn't be
contacted the next captain could sign it provided a full preflight
was conducted and the LAME was also satisfied nothing further
was wrong with the thing. Tea and stale scones were provided
for the errant captain in the CP's office next afternoon if a long
delay was incurred (ie found something wrong). A phone call
was acceptable but if the same erranter did it two more times
during his employ he was eating stale scones.

In my current mob no one dares leave a tech log unsigned, as
he'll be dragged back out to sign it and then fined (ie a hefty
chunk of $$$ deducted from next pay), an amount depending
on how long the flight was delayed. A phoning is unacceptable,
and he will incur a fine unless he's found to be dead in the car
park.

[BOAC]

Phoning is unacceptable unless he's found to be dead in the car park. - that's one heck of a mobile phone network:)

[grounded27]

AHHH, all we do is a proper catch and release by maintenance. OB flight crew do their preflight. Works well. More of an assumption that if it flew in it will fly out.

[pwned]

Good question..... I'd better go ask my captain next time . I have no idea what our policy is on this.........

But...why can't the skipper who is taking over sign for it ( after a phone call to the other guy ) ? Not allowed? :confused:

And from the thread it seems each co. has a different procedure. :confused:

[ggofpac]

For us, the guy get dragged back to sign it even if it means delaying the flight. Tea and biscuits the next day ( or when he's back at base ) with fleet office. Hair dryer treatment. :=

[Otto Throttle]

If the outgoing Capt can be contacted, he will be asked to return to the a/c and sign the tech log.

If he can't return, a verbal debrief will be carried out and a local engineer will sign the tech log on the basis of the verbal debrief.

If the Capt is not contactable, the same process will be carried out with the FO.

If neither crew member is available, the local engineer will conduct a daily inspection prior to dispatch, and the incoming crew will conduct a full PDI and have the fuel contents verified by dipping the tanks.

It happens from time to time.

[finncapt]

Retired now, so I can confess.

I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.

Got you a free beer when you next met him downroute!!!

[Avenger]

No big deal. dispatch contact the previous Cpt, and an Engineer signs off the tech log.. simple as that. We have all moved away from a punishment culture... I think!

[IFixPlanes]

Why do you need an engineer to sign the techlog? There is no technical problem on the aircraft!

[fireflybob]

Retired now, so I can confess.

I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.

Got you a free beer when you next met him downroute!!!

finncapt, that's why my signature is always illegible scribble - thanks I probably owe you and your friends a few pints!

[Max Angle]

I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.

If it is just the signature that is missing its by far the easiest solution to the problem and one I have used on several occasions, on our company paperwork there is always a previous page with the pre-departure signature on it so its not too hard.

The problem, and one that does require contact with the previous skipper or an engineer to sort, is if the technical state (new defect or nil further) has not been recorded.

[bcgallacher]

You can always work round that one - the real screw up is the flight engineer dropping the Tech Log in his flight bag and going to the hotel! Happened to me twice - searched the cockpit for about 30 min then waited until the crew bus would have reached the hotel,found out the f/e still had it then got it sent back by taxi - same idiot did it again a few days later.

[itsresidualmate]

If I've met the crew, I'll sign the plane back into myself, after all that's all they're doing in the tech log. But no crew, no sign, I can't guarantee there's no defects.

[itsresidualmate]

...oh and a telephone call with the capt would satisfy me.. With technical issues gents, ...shessh, your minds are in the gutter..

[Airbus_a321]

All replies sounds good in general and obviously most of you are in a "comfortabel" position to have maintenance (own or contracted) on each airport
What would you do if you haven't, because unluckily you fly for very low cost, maybe eastern europe charter company or so and on top of that the incoming Cpt is not reachable :confused:

I expect the incoming and not signing Cpt should have a cup of coffee without biscuits with the D.O. at least, for making "heavy trouble" for the outgoing crew, because with not log book entry, just blank on the "report" coloumn and no signature what shall we do........ can we asume the incoming forgot to write just NIL, or he/she forgot to make an entry at all :confused:

[Escape Path]

because with not log book entry, just blank on the "report" coloumn and no signature what shall we do........ can we asume the incoming forgot to write just NIL, or he/she forgot to make an entry at all

This may not work for long haul jets, but how about checking the accumulated flight time of the last crew? If the total flight time of the last crew is written, then one could assume that if there are no technical reports logged it is because there isn't any technical reports at all and then you would proceed to forge your colleague's signature :E

...oh and a telephone call with the capt would satisfy me.. With technical issues gents, ...shessh, your minds are in the gutter...

- "Hello mate, you forgot to sign the logbook before you left the airplane. Care to tell me if there's anything wrong with this flying piece of aluminium?"

- "Why, sure, this is broken and this isn't"

- "You're too kind, now beat it"

Proceed as necessary. What else could you possibly need? :ugh:

[Beeline]

Engineer carries out a full Daily or transit check to sign CRS, more fool him, a ramp check cannot check for the infinite number of defects an aircraft can have.

Captain has to come back and sign it at my Airline. It is a legal document.

I sign communicating I have fixed, he/she signs communicating I have not broken.

[itsresidualmate]

er,..isn't that what I said Escape Path?! 'A telephone call would satisfy me'?!

[Escape Path]

er,..isn't that what I said Escape Path?! 'A telephone call would satisfy me'?!

Err, sorry, I took it as sarcasm by this bit:

shessh, your minds are in the gutter..

Consider English is not my native language either...

I offer my apologies to you :O

[itsresidualmate]

:) No problem!

[BARKINGMAD]

What planet are we all on?

Most outfits these days you are lucky to see an engineer on arrival, even if you've requested their attendance, as they are operating in the same overstretch mode as Flt Ops-refer to your recent editions of "CHIRP"!

In the midst of the usual quick T/R panic, running late, ATC slot etc etc, the state of the loco operation in 2011 seems to have edited such luxuries out.

If there was something serious wrong with the 'frame, I would have thought the inbound Capt would have entered the defect or at least attempted to contact someone to discuss same. Alas, the practice of a "note" on the control column is still used to avoid the writeup which may be a "stopper", thereby spoiling everyone's day!

Yes we all know it shouldn't be done but very often that is the only perceivable option in the light of commercial pressure. Until "DE MANAGEMENT" start providing more support to the flight and ground crews whilst cost-cutting in all departments, we will continue to be faced with this quandary.

I usually sign the inbound section during the cruise and then write up any defects after landing, to try to eliminate this signature problem for the incoming crew.

The RAF recommended method of copying your predecessor's scribble was to turn the page upside down and make a fair copy in the relevant box, it being reasoned that it eliminated your own handwriting "fingerprint"........!

This method was allegedly practised when the unfortunate forgetful individual (WHO IS PERFECT??!!) had just "bought the farm". The Board of Inquiry would make great capital out of this ommission, even though the reason for his demise was a cause totally unrelated to the administration error.

I anxiously await the publication of the seminal book "Airline Management & Regulation-A Firm Grasp of the Non-Essentials", soon to be available at all good EASA bookshops!!!! :ugh:

[Telstar]

Whatever about a lack of a signature, what about a lack of detail? I've had the situation twice where the previous Captain has forgotten to record the arrival fuel and so I have no way of performing a meaningful uplift check. So far I've been able to get the offenders on the phone but what about the day when I can't? Drop him in it?

[itsresidualmate]

Regardless of whether there's an engineer there or not it's incumbent on the captain to raise any defect in the tech log, for your own safety if anything as you may be the next person to fly the aircraft. I've rarely seen notes on control columns these days, vast majority of crews are very professional and use the tech log. On the few occasions I have seen notes one of two things happens; either it gets slung in the bin as 'no tech log entry, no defect' or it gets stapled to an MOR report and sent to Quality/CAA. I think most crews realise that keeping defects out of the tech log leads to less engineers being available and their own jobs getting slightly more dangerous.

[woptb]

Beeline, if an Engineer couldn't find the "infinite" number of defects an A/C could have, then why bother inspecting them at all :ugh:

[ShyTorque]

The RAF recommended method of copying your predecessor's scribble was to turn the page upside down and make a fair copy in the relevant box, it being reasoned that it eliminated your own handwriting "fingerprint"........!

This method was allegedly practised when the unfortunate forgetful individual (WHO IS PERFECT??!!) had just "bought the farm". The Board of Inquiry would make great capital out of this ommission, even though the reason for his demise was a cause totally unrelated to the administration error.


I heard some did this with the bar book of a pilot who had just "bought the farm" because the bill would be written off. But I never did.

[SHortshaft]

In most regulatory jurisdictions the post-flight entry and signature is required by law (the national law not just your Ops Manual). Non-compliance in many places is punishable on conviction by a fine or imprisonment, or the matter may even be dealt with by ‘administrative means’, which allows them to pull your license / certificate if you have been frequently upsetting the regulator or they really don’t like you.

Even where a ‘Just Culture’ is in place such deviant behaviour would perhaps justify some form of retribution.

[bubbers44]

A captain refused to sign the log book once when I was an FO, said he was too busy. Knowing he hadn't signed it I waited until we were off the plane and said "You did sign the log book, didn't you" He ticked me off so I got even, he had to walk across the ramp and get into the plane during boarding and made my day. Sometimes it is fun to get even.