revalidation Help

[mawse]

Help
I have at the moment a CAA lifetime PPL with a Medical declaration and the licence is up for revalidation in November. (SEP)
My understanding is at this point; my privileges are restricted to that of an NPPL, ie no night, no IMC, now lapsed anyway and requirements to fly abroad etc etc, my question is what criteria should be used to revalidate if insufficient hours flown, the NPPL or the PPL. Which I am told are different ( I have trawled various web sites and pdf,s No closer):ugh:
I have asked this question in various locations with differing responses.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
:ugh:
Mawse

[B4aeros]

You cannot revalidate an SEP rating without a JAR medical.

You can get an SSEA rating on your PPL before the SEP expires - it effectively replaces the SEP, will expire on the same date but will be revalidated by NPPL criteria.

You can apply for an SSEA rating after the SEP expires, but you will have to do the SSEA General Skills Test.

edit: actually, you can revalidate the SEP if you held a valid JAR medical within the 12 months prior to your rating revalidation, but this loophole is supposed to cater only for temporary loss of medical.

[BEagle]

I have at the moment a CAA lifetime PPL with a Medical declaration and the licence is up for revalidation in November. (SEP)
No - the licence is lifetime, it is your SEP Class Rating which will be due for revalidation in November.
My understanding is at this point; my privileges are restricted to that of an NPPL, ie no night, no IMC, now lapsed anyway and requirements to fly abroad etc etc
Correct - your privileges are currently restricted to those of the NPPL(SSEA).
my question is what criteria should be used to revalidate
As you are flying under the exemptions of ORS4 No.816, you will not be able to revalidate your SEP Class Rating unless you hold at least a JAA Class 2 Medical Certificate. This change of regulation was introduced by the CAA last autumn. Otherwise you will need to apply to the CAA for the inclusion of an SSEA Class Rating in your pilot licence - including the issue fee.

If you have flown insufficient hours to meet the SEP Class Rating revalidation by experience criteria, you will need to fly an SSEA GST with an Examiner. This is actually rather more simple than the SEP revalidation LPC though.

[Whopity]

The document that you are looking for is ORS4 No 816 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4_816.pdf)which explains the privileges and requirements.

Whilst I have seen a number of references to not being able to revalidate a SEP rating without a JAA medical, there is nothing in law to prohibit it. Even CAA Staff members who have temporarily lost their medicals have been seen to revalidate class ratings without a valid medical certificate! What you cannot do is get a 5 year licence reissued without a JAA medical. See the Note at the end of ORS4 No 816.

It would therefore appear that you can revalidate by either set of criteria though the privileges are confined to operating aircraft that meet the SSEA definition, all of which also meet the SEP criteria. If you subsequently intend to revert back to your UK PPL you will need to hold a JAA medical and meet the SEP revalidation/renewal criteria. The differences are as follows:

SEP 12 hours in the 12 months prior to expiry to include:
6 hours PIC 12 take-offs and landings and a dual training flight of at least 1 hour duration or:
pass a proficiency check with an examiner within the 3 months preceding expiry.

SSEA 12 hours in the 24 month validity period to include 8 hours PIC, 12 take-offs and landings and an aggregate of one hour dual instruction. At least 6 hours must have been flown in the 12 months immediately preceding the date of revalidation which may be either the Specified date ANO Sched 7 Section 3 Para 11(1)(b) or the expiry date AIC W043/2010 Para 5.3.1
or:
pass a NPPL GST with an examiner, there is no mention of any time scale!

[BEagle]

Perhaps AIC W 053/2011 might throw a little more light on the situation.

Whopity, I know that you take some delight in finding fault with the efforts of the Authority, but can you please try and keep things simple?

Anyway, a short history lesson:

Once upon a time, if you lost your Class 2 Medical, your only option was to obtain an NPPL (SSEA). But the CAA, realising that the double whammy of losing your medical and having to pay for a whole new licence was a bit harsh, generously came up with an Exemption to allow the holders of a current, valid pilot licence with a current, valid SEP Class Rating to continue to fly, but limited to SSEA-level privileges only. This Exemption was also available to those who chose not to hold a Class 2 Medical, even though they could.

This Exemption, known as ORS4 No 711, was introduced in Sep 2008; it didn’t require any paperwork and would apply until the licence, if a JAR-FCL pilot licence, was due for re-issue. Because the CAA had no power to exempt pilots from the requirement to hold a Class 2 Medical for a JAR-FCL pilot licence re-issue, the pilot would then need to obtain a NPPL (SSEA) at that point. But ‘old-style’ UK PPL holders could carry on until they hung up their flying boots, merely revalidating their SEP Class Ratings as they always had. Simple.

An option, though, was to obtain the SSEA Class Rating itself. Due to the differing revalidation requirements for SSEA and SEP Class Ratings, in certain circumstances it was of more benefit to some pilots to hold an SSEA Class Rating, so this option was quite handy. But there was no compulsion - and fewactually understood the difference anyway.

ORS4 No 711 was routinely re-issued in September 2009 as ORS4 No 756, with no changes. But it had been observed that some smart-arsed barrack room lawyers were advising pilots to exploit the Exemption for a purpose which was wholly contrary to the spirit of the original. People were appearing with long expired SEP Class Ratings and renewing them rather than obtaining a NPPL(SSEA). Despite being advised not to abuse the Authority’s generosity, they wouldn’t be told....a tale of the goose and the golden egg was about to follow.

I recommended to the Authority that all that was really necessary was to spell out quit clearly that the Exemption only applied to holders of valid SEP Class Ratings wishing to revalidate, but they decided to go one step further and only to allow use of the Exemption until the pilot licence was due for re-issue or the SEP Class Rating was due for revalidation, whichever came first. If the pilot held a UK pilot licence, the pilot would then need to obtain an SSEA Class Rating or to obtain a NPPL(SSEA); however, this option did not apply to JAR-FCL pilot licence holders who would need to obtain a NPPL(SSEA). A further complication arose for those who had previously exercised Microlight and/or SLMG privileges on an SEP Class Rating - when the SEP Class Rating reached its end of validity point, to continue flying Microlights and/or SLMGs, the pilot would also need the relevant Class Rating as an SSEA Class Rating is not valid for Microlight and/or SLMG privileges. These changes were introduced under ORS4 No 816 in September 2010; unfortunately this also meant an increase in cost as the SSEA Class Rating (and/or Microlight and SLMG Class Ratings) would not be issued free of charge. You can thank the barrack room lawyers for that.

A recent small tweak has been introduced under AIC W 053.2011, which now states:
The privileges of an SEP rating may only be exercised if the licence holder has a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 Medical Certificate. An aeroplane licence (other than an NPPL(A)) cannot be issued or re-issued, unless the applicant/holder has a valid JAA Class 1 or 2 Medical Certificate. An SEP rating cannot be revalidated or renewed unless the holder has a Class 1 or 2 Medical Certificate that is valid or, in the case of revalidation, was valid within the 12 months preceding the date of revalidation; (this is to allow for the case where a pilot has complied with the revalidation requirements but becomes temporarily unfit before the SEP rating is revalidated).Whether ORS4 no 816 will be re-issued with the imminent arrival of €urocracy is not yet known.

[Whopity]

I would be only too pleased to keep things simple, if others would only do the same. I seek only to find the truth amongst the confusion however absurd that may prove to be.

Surely the Note above is a clear indication that it is possible to have a valid SEP Class rating without a JAA Medical certificate or there would be no point in making such a statement!

[mawse]

thank you gentlemen for the replies to my questions,all is now clear and the GST for the SSEA will be the route,so simple when explained by those who understand the jargon:O

:ok: mawse