When is last chance to get IMC

[CharlieDeltaUK]

I thought the last chance to get the IMC rating would be prior to April 2012, but I read an article in 'Pilot' which said that 2011 is the last chance. So, is there some deadline ahead of the EASA April 2012 changes?

[IO540]

April 2012 is the earliest date on which EASA can do anything to stop it.

However it looks like it will continue, if you have got yours done by April 2012.

Any date in 2011 is wrong.

[421C]

I'd be a bit more cautious. I am making this up, rather than informed, but take it as an illustration. From 8 April 2012 the CAA can't issue certain non-EASA qualifications. BUT, they will have a big backlog of licensing work to do around this time. Say you sent something in in Feb 2012, who knows for sure it will be processed by 8 April?

Hopefully the IMCr will continue in some way. But I would NOT plan on finishing something in March 2012 as being OK. It might be prudent to aim for end 2011 as the cut-off. I am probably wrong and maybe it will be fine, but absent the certainty you take your choice....

[mixture]

CharlieDeltaUK,

I can't find the official AOPA press release but the PPRuNe search function reveals the following from October 2008 :

At a special meeting of EASA, members of the FCL008 Working Group and the UK CAA called in Cologne on Tuesday to discuss the UK IMC rating, EASA agreed as a first step to “grandfather” IMC rating holders for life – which means anyone who gets the rating before EASA takes over responsibility for licensing in April 2012 will be allowed to fly safely under its provisions for as long as they live. AOPA UK, which was invited to an FCL008 meeting for the first time, welcomed the decision but will continue to press for the retention of the IMC rating in order to protect the next generation of pilots as we protect ourselves. In this, AOPA has the support of the UK CAA, which sent its Head of Licensing and Training Policy Cliff Whittaker to join its representative on FCL008, Mike Dobson. Together they made it clear that it is CAA policy to retain the IMC rating. EASA also sent some big beasts to the meeting, including Matthias Borgmeier and Eric Sivel from the Rulemaking Department. EASA’s Notice of Proposed Amendment covering instrument flying is due in January 2011, at which time the precise details of its intentions on the IMC rating will become known. Martin Robinson and Nick Wilcock attended the meeting on behalf of AOPA UK. Afterwards Robinson said: “We welcome the concession, having previously been told it was not possible to grant grandfather rights under EASA, but we will not allow it to take the steam out of the campaign to retain the IMC rating for the safety of all UK pilots present and future.”
A fuller report on the meeting will come from Nick Wilcock shortly.


So it looks like April 2012 is the ultimate date.

[IO540]

If you did the IMCR at a CAA-licensed RF in March, and they refuse to issue the Rating due to internal processing delays, then you pop down to Gatwick accompanied by a solicitor.

EASA’s Notice of Proposed Amendment covering instrument flying is due in January 2011, at which time the precise details of its intentions on the IMC rating will become known.

The problem is that that date has passed and this political hot potato carries on...

[BEagle]

EASA’s Notice of Proposed Amendment covering instrument flying is due in January 2011, at which time the precise details of its intentions on the IMC rating will become known.

That date came and went. Then, in Feb 2011 theY said it would be released in Jun 2011. However, in May they told us that it won't be released until the late summer / early autumn.......:\

EASA has been reminded of the political commitment it gave to the EU parliament to 'take the UK IMCR into future European legislation'; if their NPA does not achieve this, they will be held to account.

EASA didn't even know how many new IMCRs are issued per annum......:rolleyes: They do now!

[proudprivate]

if their NPA does not achieve this, they will be held to account.


Remind me on how that is done, exactly ?

[Fuji Abound]

Proudprivate

Yeah, i would like to know the answer to that one - I think in EASA the unaccountable has been created.

[proudprivate]

I've fantasized on this forum about "buying myself a second hand Sukhoi 27P with sufficient range for a flight from LDSP to EDDK, with a strategic diversion at the last minute straight on in the direction of the river" as an ultimate way of exacting accountability from them. To my disappointment, I've now learned from picking up a book on UK Criminal Law at a county book fair, that the very mentioning of such a thought on a public forum could be an offence. ;)

The only accountability that they have at EASA is that their contracts are all temporary, so if they misbehave the Management Board can fire them after three years [The Management Board could also fire them in between, but then only if they rape the chambermaid at an air safety conference venue]. The members are mainly Member States' CAA presidents and one or two of their buddies; Chaired by Michael Smethers, duputized by Maxime Coffin; and then there's Seebohm and Baldwin of course, bossed over by Matthias Ruete (that's the poor sod with the ever-full mailbox)

So the route to accountability would be some serious complaints at the Member States' Transport Ministery level, who would then tell their respective CAA chairman to do something to make the noise stop.

Alternatively, the Transport Committee of the EP can always sink at least those EASA proposals that are making the "Banana Curvature" regulation look like pearls of European Wisdom. That's why we are writing to our MEP's, even when they are on holiday. Both MEP's and MP's are also reasonably accessible and they can have a chat with the Transport Minister, especially if they adhere to the same political fraction.

But to get some EASA die-hards ousted as opposed to changing the regs for the better, I think the Transport Ministry is the way to go. While the transport minister will defer to his/her CAA on anything technical, they do tend to listen in cases when a real meal has been made of it (which, we can safely say, has happened here).

[Whopity]

One final task for XH558!

[IO540]

It would have to be a whole lot more accurate than the last time it was used ;)

[18greens]

Has there been any update on the final date for imcr issue? Is it still April 2012?

Is there any documentation from the CAA to support this?

[Whopity]

Information on the CAA website says that EASA licences will be issued from 1 July 2012. JAA licences will cease to be issued after 30 Jun 2012. As an IMC rating cannot be added to an EASA licence, it cannot be included on a new licence after that date. There remains the question of how long it can be added to an existing UK or JAA licence.

As the addition of a new rating involves a reprint of the licence, if the software will no longer support printing JAA licences after 30 Jun that would seem to be the end.

The only FAQ relating to the IMC is Q25 which largely says what appears earlier in this thread.

[BEagle]

Whopity, please stop spreading such utter guff!

For those who wish to know the current situation, see Future of the UK IMC Rating (http://www.aopa.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=581:future-of-the-uk-imc-rating&catid=1:latest-news)

[18greens]

Thanks Beagle.

So the AOPA website doesn't seem to indicate any definite end date for the imc, although the sooner you get it the better. Is that a correct interpretation?

[stickandrudderman]

The sooner you get it the better, regardless of any changes in beaurocratic meddling. It makes you a better pilot.:D

[abgd]

The sooner you get it the better, regardless of any changes in beaurocratic meddling. It makes you a better pilot.:DI'm sure that's correct, but personally as somebody just about to finish my PPL, I'd rather get a little fair-weather flying in first and take things at a more relaxed pace.

My plan had been to do my IMC exam (i.e. start the course) and hope that would count in my favour should I be in a position to do the IMC next year... I just can't see myself finding time to do it before April.

I can deal with the fact that EASA would like to create their own IR rating, and I can even accept that the IMCr may be coming to a close. But I find it bemusing that we can be so close to the cutoff date with so many basic questions on the licence still unanswered.

[Whopity]

Whopity, please stop spreading such utter guff! Beagle, there is little difference in what I said to what is written there. You will not be able to put it on an EASA licence; they will not be able to re-issue a JAA licence with it on after 30 June, so the only option is to put it on an existing UK licence or obtain a new UK licence (at extra expense). It would be helpful if your friend included it in his Questions and Answers. The AOPA site is after all only Hearsay! It would also be nice to know who will be able to revalidate the IMC ratings beyond April 2014?

[BEagle]

...so the only option is to put it on an existing UK licence or obtain a new UK licence

Which was the crucial point you omitted to include in your previous post.

The proposed charge for issuing such a National UK Pilot's Licence in order to retain National UK ratings is £35 (see p4 of the CAA Scheme of Charges).

However, if the proposed amendment to FCL.600 IR - General is accepted, this supplementary lifetime United Kingdom licence would no longer be necessary.

[stickandrudderman]

I'm sure that's correct, but personally as somebody just about to finish my PPL, I'd rather get a little fair-weather flying in first and take things at a more relaxed pace.

I understand that you're looking forward to getting your licence but I assure you that getting your IMC as soon as you possibly can will likely lead to you becoming much more confident in your skills and so enjoy much more rewarding trips in the future.
You've heard the expression "licence to learn", well it's my belief that once you take your foot off the learning pedal, a lot of time gets wasted before you put your foot back on it, and apathy may well set in in the mean time.
Just my thoughts for what they're worth.:ok:

[BEagle]

The AOPA site is after all only Hearsay!

The information on the AOPA website came directly from the CAA, with whom we are working closely.