View Full Version : IFR Carlisle to Glenforsa
While I realise that there's no IFR capability at Oban and Glenforsa, straight line to Glenforsa from Carlisle goes straight through the Scottish TMA passing just south west of Glasgow.
Can any Scottish ATCO advice on the planned IFR or SVFR routing that would work best?
In good weather a straight line would be fine from pilot's viewpoint, otherwise routing to BRUCE for descent over the sound would be expected.
Oldpilot55
8th Jun 2011, 16:03
You can get from Prestwick to Oban at 500' by a relatively short detour which follows the Crinan Canal. If you prefer height then Scottish Info will organise a handover and IFR clearance through Glasgow airspace. You only have to ask.
Whilst not a Scottish ATCO, I have flown that route quite a few times and my experience is similar to Oldpilot55's, never had any trouble getting a clearance through Glasgow CAS.
Aaah! Scottish hospitality :) I might choose to stop at Prestwick en route to top up with a little fuel and break the journey a bit, what's that like for light aircraft?
What level do you plan going at ?
Level would be somewhere between 6000ft and FL090
Is this a Eurocontrol flight plan, or a "UK style IMCR" job ?
Very different strategies.
Eurocontrol would be the plan if going IFR
maxred
8th Jun 2011, 19:15
Forgive me, but could I ask why you would want to do this?
Carlisle to GOW, is app 80 miles, GOW to Glenforsa is roughly 50. By the time you climbed to say 6, your transit at this level would be short. Also if you planned to land at PIK, then it is even shorter.
I do not think Eurocentral would entertain it, far better to do a UK IMCR deal, if you must go IFR, but as stated Glasgow would give you a transit over the GOW, IFR/VFR, if you ask. File the plan from Carlisle-GOW-BRUCE, IFR, then it should work. The weather however at Glenforsa is the gotcha, with no let down other than blind over the water. The murk can go down to sea level, at any time of the year, and it is not a place to be coming down from altitude, blind.:\
Thanks Maxred that seems to make good sense Carlisle GOW Bruce at around 5000ft would be doable IFR and it's quite feasible to safely cloud break over Bruce, GPS is a wonderful tool.
I'm pretty sure I'd get a MAN route for that from Eurocontrol if I needed to but as it's all Class E or D that probably isn't necessary.
If I go Prestwick that would be instead of Carlisle or a diversion due weather.
Most "OCAS" low level routings will nowadays validate via Eurocontrol but that doesn't mean you will get any service from IFR ATC, who will probably not even have your flight plan because it got dumped by somebody earlier.
As an extreme example, if you file Goodwood DCT Biggin, 2400ft, it will probably validate. (The small fact that it busts the Gatwick airspace, etc, etc, is a side issue :) ) But if upon getting airborne from Goodwood you call up London Control, they won't have the flight plan, and will dump you onto Farnborough LARS or more likely London Info.
That is why most hacking around the UK, VMC or IMC, is best done without a flight plan or, if you want to file a flight plan for e.g. S&R reasons, under a VFR one.
Most "OCAS" low level routings will nowadays validate via Eurocontrol but that doesn't mean you will get any service from IFR ATC, who will probably not even have your flight plan because it got dumped by somebody earlier.
It's different in Scotland.
Talk to the Scottish FIS whilst below FL55 on the way North, they'll pass your details on to either Prestwick or Glasgow if you intend to be operating 6000' or below as you enter the TMA Controlled Airspace. A quick transfer to one of those units and you'll get a clearance through. If you want to go above FL55, then they'll pass your details on to the Scottish TMA sectors who will give you the clearance and the ATC service. When you pop out the TMA, the West Coast sector at Scottish will still have your details and you will be transferred to them for ATSOCAS if you want it. The limitation will be that Deconfliction Service can only be offered above a set level, round about the FL55 mark. Traffic Service can be offered below this.
The only thing I would advise is avoiding the peak periods of the day (around 0700-0930 Local and 1600-1800 Local). At these times the TMA can be busy with SID departures climbing to 6000' and arrivals descending to the holding stacks at around FL70. You will still get a clearance if IFR, but you might be taken on vectors around the houses to avoid the main traffic flows. At these times it would probably be better to fly via NGY - TRN - BRUCE to avoid the mayhem.
It's different in Scotland.
Which is why I asked the question :-)
Thanks 10W that's extremely helpful:ok: