Flight Planning Across Magnetic Variations

[jnicholas]

Hi Guys,
Doing up a flight plan from the sunshine coast to rockhampton, and the plan goes across several isogonic (magnetic variation) lines. It starts of about 11 Deg East here on the coast and ends up 9.5 at rocky. just wondering how I build this change in the variation into my flight plan? is it really needed?

Thanks guys, this will be my longest trip to date....any advice on getting into/out of rocky would be appreciated! also, anyone know who to contact re parking and fuel both at rocky and bundaberg?

Cheers!
:ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Break the flight up into stages and apply as required, or average it for the entire trip.

Let's also be honest, if you can fly VFR Nav plus or minus 1.5 degree you're doing better than me with an approved navigation system :)

[Roxy_Chick_1989]

Can you hold your heading to within +/- 1.5 degrees?:D

That kind of variation difference will not cause you any dramas, after all the track you derive will be corrected for wind based on a guess by the weather-man which you will then set onto an instrument which itself is progressively becoming inaccurate. Get my drift? (no pun intended)

[Xcel]

Better do a great circle and rhumb line track- this sounds serious...

on another note just do an average the difference will be to small to fly - this includes transcontinental

Or just get a gps and champagne flight planner ... What's a WAC??

[bingofuel]

The main point is you are aware of the variation change and thinking about it. In practice it does not matter to much. Just ask how many people allow for the compass deviation and error?

[kalavo]

Just get it within 20 degrees and use 1 in 60s, you'll be right.

[PyroTek]

Shouldn't really be an issue, especially in VFR navigation... There are lots of good points of reference on the ground up the coast anyway :ok:

[Xcel]

ONUS

SAND

deviations

variations

it's all to hard ... What does the fms say??

[b_sta]

Just average it at 10 and correct for minor track error as you go (if you have GPS you won't have track error anyway!)

[esreverlluf]

Heading north on your proposed track, just keep the sea on your right and the land on your left. Can't go wrong.

Now if you think YOU need to be concerned about variation, the check out the isogonals on this map!

http://users.tpg.com.au/zwerg/Image1.jpg

[ChaseIt]

Just let flight planner figure it all out for you! :ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Spilt the difference between the start and finish and apply that to all legs, I'd use 10 as a nice round figure. As others have said if you can fly that accurately, you are doing better than the rest of us.

Cheers, HH.:ok:

[rioncentu]

JN

Now you know how to get there, here's the go on the destinations.

Rocky is Class D. No difference in procedures to YSBU. Just have a VTC and you will be OK.

Parking and access is crap. Council is so supportive of GA they would prefer you went elsewhere :ugh:

You need a swipe card to get access to the GA, very handy if you are after hours.

Bundy just a plain old CTAF r. Plenty of parking and a coded access gate. Nice and simple like it should be.

Have a great trip.

PS - Check Notams on the restricted areas as the military are ramping up for some fun and games.

Have fun.

[jnicholas]

The parking in Rocky will only be for 2 or 3 hours around the middle of the day, and mid week. I'm just going up there to inspect some of our properties as they have had work done. I guess i'll just ring the council and hope for the best. With regard to swipe card access is it just a matter of ringing the FBO when I want to get back in?

At Bundy, even though there is plenty of parking I still need to ring the council and work out overnight fees and payment right? Will they just give me a code for the gate then?

Sorry about the really dumb questions, but as a low hour VFR private pilot I haven't done a trip away from home yet....exciting times though! ohh and also - fuel in rocky...I have a BP card but they only have Caltex and Shell. Will they take credit cards?

Cheers guys.

[rioncentu]

JN

No with these two airports (and most, but not all) you can just rock up and expect parking for your trips away. That is a given generally for light aircraft.


Note I say most. Read ERSA and they will generally tell you where prior permission is required. In a light aircraft you should be able to park pretty much at any airport but read ERSA first. ERSA is your friend for planning trips.


Rocky for just a few hours, as long as you have an ASIC, someone will let you in at the aero club or one of the maintenance orgs. Or ring the ARO noted in ERSA.

Bundy again ring the ARO and they will give you the gate code.

Both will bill you automatically. No need to pay as you go.

Most, if not all, Shell bowsers are now Credit Card operated so you will be fine there also.


And not trying to be smart (which PPrune specialises in) - But surely on your navs you had to deal with these sorts of things? Not sure how you can get a PPL without having to park and/or fuel at another airport?

[rutan around]

Why not use Gladstone for your over night.There's no landing fee and no parking fee for less than 5 days. If you're lucky you might even find some hanger bum that will give you a lift to town. Book a motel as many days in advance as possible as the LNG people are using a lot of them at the moment.There's a fair bit to see around ygla too if you have the time.
Cheers RA

[The Green Goblin]

If I were you, I'd be heading somewhere interesting further North. Horn island is a nice part of the world.

If the refueler was not a she, she would have got a smack in the mouth years ago.

The most impatient, aggressive and obnoxious dill going around.

And shes a Kiwi :p

[shpilot]

GG, Bring give them a heads up and bring them a chocolate or something nice and they will usally be alright. They don't really like people turning up out of nowhere.

[compressor stall]

esreverlluf I'll raise you one. I could go one better, but it's all I've got on my 'puter at the moment...

And who can tell me the proper technical name for the green lines....?

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/stallie001/aviation/Screenshot2011-06-09at122235.png

[TinKicker]

A stab in the dark from long ago loaded memory......'grivation lines'...??

Tinkicker

[esreverlluf]

You win Stallie. Dunno what the green lines are.:eek:

[The Green Goblin]

GG, Bring give them a heads up and bring them a chocolate or something nice and they will usally be alright. They don't really like people turning up out of nowhere.

Is it not her job to sell, supply and refuel your aeroplane?

Sheesh it's not like she is doing you a favour or anything! She is doing what she is paid (probably more than me at the time) to do.

As for turning up out the blue? NO prearranged whenever I used to go in there.

I'd be trying to work out a fuel figure for the payload I'd been given and she would be standing on the ladder with the nozzle in the tanks sighing and huffing and puffing. Every couple of minutes she'd clamber up the air stairs and rudely ask me "have you figured it out yet"!!!

She needs a one way ticket back across the Tasman and quickly!

[compressor stall]

On the right track, TinKicker, Grivations are the grid equivalent of Magnetic Variation.

But what's the (green) line called that joins up the same value grivations? :E

(and as an aside, the small black numbers on the map are spot heights).

[jnicholas]

It's not my first choice of route for a trip either, but it's purely a business trip. Have to inspect properties in Rocky during the day then overnight at families at Bundy on the way back.
I will give both aerodrome operators a call in the next week or so and report back if I have any issues. As both of them have shell i expect they'll take credit card or shell card. fingers crossed anyway!
Also, anyone know about the state of the YBUD grass strip at the moment? I guess i'll just ask when I call anyway - but a pilot's opinion is good too!

thanks again.

[rioncentu]

Already said:

No need to phone. Credit card accepted.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Most, if not all, Shell bowsers are now Credit Card operated so you will be fine there also.

Ha, ya reckon? Haven't been to Rocky for nearly a year, but I would NOT go there without the fuel to go somewhere else. Last time, the Shell swipe bowser was not working and the guy on the end of the telephone could not tell me when it would be back on line. Fortunately I had the fuel to go to Mackay to the BP carnet bowser - where I helped out another pilot who could not get fuel out of the Shell swipe bowser there either.

Can't say I have ever found the refueller at Rocky to be of any help either.

Dr :8

[Masif Eego]

[QUOTE]But what's the (green) line called that joins up the same value grivations? /QUOTE]

I'll have a crack at it ...

ISOGRIVS


:ok:

[TinKicker]

Had to go back to the Book* for this one....as there has been too much stuff added since this one was.....a long time ago.

ISOGRIV - a line of a chart joining equal points of grivation

*Air Navigation Vol II - AF Manual 51-40 March 1955 (original copy)

Tinkicker

PS - Looks like Masif beat me to it by a few minutes.....congrats

[compressor stall]

Yep, Isogrivs they are... The GNC map extract is a hundred miles to the sw of the south magnetic pole.

And your tome's definition correlates with my Arctic Air Navigation, by the Canadian Defence Research Board. :ok:

Sadly in these days of DIR TO on GPS it's a dying art. :{. I still get to use it in anger though. :)

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

jnicholas, I am kinda curious - how did you work out tracks required and headings to fly for your PPL navs?

Did you not do a navex that crossed Mag Variation lines?

Dr :8

[Capt Fathom]

Oh no, the Doc has spotted the obvious chink in the armour! :E

[rioncentu]

Ok doc you are correct!

I didn't say the bowser would actually WORK

But at least he can stand in front of it and shout at it to a man on another planet:ugh:

[jnicholas]

I did a fair few nav's to do my PPL. never did we go all that far notrh / south though to cross more then 1//2 a degree or maybe a degree in variation. A lot was done from the sunny coast out towards oakey, amberley, kingaroy etc. And never have I done a full stop at an away field to re-fuel / supply. Thus, the amateur questions!

[ringbinder]

The GNC map extract is a hundred miles to the sw of the south magnetic pole.


How can this extract be SW of the south magnetic pole? If you are at the south magnetic pole you cannot go further south!!!!! For an instant whilst you are precisely at the south magnetic pole, the only way you can go is north. Immediately you've moved north a bit you can then go either east or west as well or back to the south, of course. But you cannot go further south in any form (e.g. sw) once you are back at the pole.

I have a basic knowledge of maps and land-based navigation etc so have I missed something?

[Xcel]

Jnicholas

- forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't your ppl supposed to include a 300nm flight with a stop at 2 pts??

Maybe I'm getting confused with a company syllabus and the actual day vfr syllabus...

In any case happy flights...

[mcgrath50]

I believe the syllabus only states stops, ie; full stop landings, doesn't mean you have to refuel. Although it would make sense to have an instructor with you the first time you want to try to decipher how to work a bowser!

I get a warm feeling every time I see someone struggling to pull out the hose when it's in reverse gear. Makes me realise I'm not the only idiot out there!

[rioncentu]

Ouch

I am a bit shocked then that you can get a PPL without ever having got out of the plane at another airfield.

OK the getting out bit isn't all that hard.

But it's clearly left you without some form of real life flying experiences and airmanship (Not having a dig at you personally)

More of a school issue me thinks as it's not really trained you how to USE your PPL all that well.

best of luck with the trip and hoping the forums have pointed you in the direction that your instructor really ought to have.

[triton140]

How can this extract be SW of the south magnetic pole?

I think the south magnetic pole is somewhere around 65deg south give or take a bit, so it's possible!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I hate to be one of those people who say, "Things were better in my day", but .........

I spend a lot of my time and energy training young people for a profession and I can tell you that they graduate with superior knowledge and skills to enter their chosen profession than I , or most of my contemporaries did. I get enormous enjoyment and satisfaction from working with these young people and believe that we do a very good job of equiping them to cope successfully with their first 1000 days (call it 3 years) in the profession.

However, in general, this does not appear to be the case with flying training in Australia.

I got my PPL 38 years ago, and have always felt that I was well trained to fly a single-engine GA aeroplane anywhere in Oz that I chose to go. Like most new "graduates" I lacked a body of experience, but I was well equipped to gain that experience.

PPL Navs were:
1. Archerfield - Gympie - Archerfield (2.25 hrs - dual)
2. Archerfield - Stanthorpe - Casino - Coolangatta - Brisbane - Archerfield (3.25 hrs - dual)
3. Archerfiel - Dalby - Brisbane - Archerfield ( 3.2 hrs - dual)
4. Archerfield - Maroochdore - Archerfield ( 2.1 hrs - solo)
5. IF (2 hrs - dual)
6. Archerfield - Kingaroy - Brisbane - Archerfield - Brisbane - Toowoomba - Archerfield (5 hrs - ICUS)
7. Archerfield - Coolangatta - Goondiwindi (refuel) - Archerfield (5 hrs - solo)

That was the syllabus in the "old" days!

Dual navs were in a PA28, solo navs in C150.

No having a go at you jnicholas, just your training - and the system !

Dr :8

[compressor stall]

ringbinderI have a basic knowledge of maps and land-based navigation etc so have I missed something?


Yes, you have.

The Geographic south pole is at 90 degrees south. Everyway is (true) North. The yanks have a base there.

The Magnetic South Pole is as suggested around 65S, over water and almost due south of Tassie, not far from Dumont D'Urville. This point moves around a bit. It used to be over land as that's why Mawson, Ninnis and Mertz began their long trek to "find" it 100 years ago. This is where the flux lines (to which your compass aligns) are vertical. Your compass just spins slowly and quietly to itself without a care in the world.

Then for trivia nights there's the Geomagnetic South Pole is a point that dipole of a standard theoretical magnetic field of the earth extends outwards. It's currently just a bit south from the Russian research station of Vostok. This is a theoretical point and nothing happens there except that it's rather chilly.


edit - more reading here (http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/fact-files/geography/poles-and-directions) but beware there's a slight mistake, or incorrect wording. It says that the South Geographic Pole moves 10m a year. The pole does not move at all, rather the icecap and all on it (buildings, neutrino telescopes, runways) moves 10m a year. Thus the peg in the ground needs to be shifted by 10 metres every year. A rather glacial example of relativity I guess. :8

[ringbinder]

Tks, CS.

So, is it then that the chart in question is SW (T) from the magnetic south pole? And is it, as I understand it from your info, at the magnetic south pole every direction (M) is north as is the case (T) at the real south pole?

If that understanding is correct, what magnetic heading would you steer from the south magnetic pole to a position somewhere on that chart? I realise that it is probably complex, but in simple terms would it be a northerly course of some sort (M)?

[compressor stall]

Yes, it's true SW, although I underestimated the distance off the top of my head. It's about 350nm on a heading of 208°T. The magnetic variation is around 140W give or take 10, so if you could get a reading you'd be magnetic heading 348°M or there abouts.

I can see where you're coming from with the question that it would be all a kind of magnetic north, but that's not really how it works in practice. Think of the magnetic pole as the end of the bar magnet under the paper with the iron filings on top in high school physics class. Yes, the flux lines are vertically out of the ground, then flattening out to run parallel to the ground as they head to the north pole (as the longitudes do from 90°S) but we never think of them as north from a navigational sense.

If you were to fly from the SMP to my chart, you wouln't steer any magnetic heading. It's next to useless. Below 60S aircraft generally plan and use true. But then that has its limitations when you get below 70S and/or start flying long distances east/west as your true track varies so much.

That's where grid navigation comes in. The green grid lines on my chart are these, and the grid direction would be grid NE...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/stallie001/aviation/Screenshot2011-06-10at161120.png

I have an approach chart here with an RNAV approach SWY 26. That skiway is 094°T/261G. What airport is it and extra points for workings please (and a hint, it's nearly 78°S).

[fujii]

Sunshine Coast and Rocky are both on the coast. Head north, keep Australia on the left and enjoy the view. Shouldn't be too hard.

[Capt Fathom]

Sunshine Coast and Rocky are both on the coast.

Well I'll be damned, they've moved Rocky!

Or did it wash down there in the last flood?