Rude ASIC inspectors

[Hasherucf]

Today we were working away in the hangar minding our own business when we were paid a visit by 3 plain clothes people inspecting ASIC cards.

I don't mind having my my ASIC checked but what I do mind is their attitudes . They basically burst into our workspace like they where conducting a drug raid .They even asked one guy to finish his phone call.

His explanation of the 'raid' ( for want of a better word ) was that people are failing to display their ASIC above the waist by stowing it in a pocket or under their jacket and that they were in a 'period of education'. Later they would start fining people to the tune of $110 for such an offense.

Now I don't know OH&S safety laws but I think people shouldn't just walk into a operating workshop without seeking permission of the manager . If it was off airport most workshops would display a sign like 'visitors must report to office'.

Obviously we have a duty of care when a person can injure themselves in our workplace .Could you imagine someone walking in on you while your spraying an aircraft ? Or they slipped on some oil or tripped on a power cord ?

I think they need adjust their attitudes , be more courteous and respect others work environment


rant complete!

[zappalin]

Ah. Well I could relate a story about having mine displayed at the wrong time but I'd prefer to not be chewed out like I was for a long time yet...

[Iron Bar]

Absolutly.

First

Ask to see THEIR asic and credentials before they talk to anyone.

Then

OUT of the hangar until the boss is advised and invites them in. Or if OH&S is an issue, stay the F&$k out!!!!

Good rant

[kalavo]

Depending on the aerodrome inside the hangar may be considered landside rather than airside.

*mumbles about signs having to be displayed on the non-existant wall between the hangar and the apron rather than on the outside of the hangar between the hangar and the carpark*

[Viracocha]

I have had a similar discussion with many engineers. Knowing that they technically should have their asic displayed on their chest visable, but was kindly corrected with the H&S issues of having an item hanging loosely around their neck while working on an engine.

As for access to your property i tend to belieave that you are right, they should not be just walking in. Noone has that right, they have to report to the office and then be granted access into your hanger.

[Worrals in the wilds]

...but was kindly corrected with the H&S issues of having an item hanging loosely around their neck while working on an engine.
They're a total menace on the tarmac as well. Many an ASIC has made an unscheduled trip somewhere in the hold of an aircraft because the bloody lanyard broke and its owner didn't notice.

It just illustrates the complete la-la land that said department inhabits...but we all knew that already.

As for walking into hangars, I wouldn't do it in a blue fit, you wouldn't know what's about to go wrong. Don't you have something dangerous that can fall from the roof on cue? Call it an object lesson :E.

If you can be bothered, write a letter of complaint to the minister and cc your local member. Sometimes it works.

[Chu Mai Huang]

So who where they, where were they from, and why was there three of them? What airport? Did they identify themselves?
Spent a whole weekend working in and around a hangar at YPMQ a while back, was challenged by nobody.

[mustman]

but was kindly corrected with the H&S issues of having an item hanging loosely around their neck while working on an engine.Many an ASIC has made an unscheduled trip somewhere in the hold of an aircraft because the bloody lanyard broke and its owner didn't notice. I agree. I think the thing hanging off my neck is dangerous. Every time I am pre flighting, loading bags etc it goes in my pocket. Only comes out when I am walking across the tarmac.

[Hasselhof]

If you're going to use a lanyard, get one from a drug rep or some other health organisation. They pretty much all have a quick release plastic clip which allows the lanyard to disconnect from your neck if pulled quickly. They are designed so that psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health nurses and other health care workers don't get strangled to death with their lanyard by a psychotic patient (or someone just sick of waiting to be seen in emergency :E).

I've had one now in both a health setting (for ID, keycard etc) and as my ASIC lanyard for about seven years and it's never come loose when I didn't want it to, but always come loose when I wanted it to.

[Jabawocky]

If anyone walks into my workshop uninvited, no matter who they think they are, apart from say the police on a seriously urgent matter where they do have rights, the said offenders would be given an invite to enjoy sex&travel ;). And never be welcomed back.

[Desert Duck]

Jaba

Even Police have very limited powers to access your hangar unless invited.

[Flying Binghi]

I hear rumours that at some regional airports the ASIC required area will be reduced to just the immediate terminal area ?




.

[takeonme]

From an OHS course I did a while back, we were told the only people who can access a worksite without approval are Comcare/Workcover....

[Frank Arouet]

I hear rumours that at some regional airports the ASIC required area will be reduced to just the immediate terminal area ?

This was the original concept as explained in one of two brochures put out prior to the ASIC introduction. In essence a yellow line would have been needed to denote the airside security zone, anyone without an ASIC stay out.

However local government greed in accepting cash for "security" upgrades was conditional upon that local government declaring ALL the airside within the perimeter the security zone.

I have also heard rumours of discontent within a few regional councils who may be shortly out of pocket for thousands to install scanning machines. One in particular is going to downgrade it's status and one supposes it's responsibilities for the "other" 5 KM of 3 strand plain with one barb fence which one can walk straight through.

There is also rumours that if REX delete some of their country services, the same may happen.

Yes folks, a can of yellow paint was all that was needed.:mad:

[fanning]

Aviation Transport Security Act 2004 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2011C00191/Html/Text#_Toc290379709) says the powers ...

[YPJT]

On the subject of "rude" ASIC inspectors, usually they will formally identify themselves and explain what they are doing. The fact that they are now showing a bit more presence to enforce ASIC display requirements has come about because GA's attitude is well known thanks largely to these pages. Argue the toss all you like but you will be on a hiding to nowhere.

In essence a yellow line would have been needed to denote the airside security zone, anyone without an ASIC stay out.

Actually it is usually a blue line that is used to delineate secure areas under a TSP at an airport so as not to confuse any taxi or parking limit lines.

The introduction of screening for RPT aircraft > 20,000kg was orginally published in the white paper as taking affect from 2014, however Mr exploding underpants was a catalyst for the government to bring that fwd to 01 Jul 2012. Many airports will be out of pocket initially but not unlike the introduction of CBS to the 26 jet RPT serviced regional airports that was announced in early 2007 and implemented by Nov 2008. Airports being serviced only by Rex will escape the screening requirement with the Saab falling below the 20tonne threshold. However where they share an apron within the operational period of a larger screened aircraft, they too will have to be screened.

Binghi, The OTS is looking at a classification scheme for screening and other security requirements. Not sure if the ASIC display will be one of those requirements relaxed or changed although it would make sense.

[185skywagon]

Fanning,
I'd say that they had carte blanche do whatever they like, by the reading of the Act.
It certainly appears hat they have almost unlimited powers of entry to any place or aircraft.

:uhoh:

185.

[Blueyonda]

Forget airside and landside. It is the whole airport that incorporates both airside and landside. I could be wrong in my interpretation of this.

Look at the definition for an 'AVIATION INDUSTRY PARTICIPANT' in the transport security act 2004.

Then look at 79 (2) (B) (i)

With Regards to ASIC display:

Reg 3.03 (1)(a)

The transport security regulations say a person on the airside zone (or secure zone) of a security controlled airport must display a valid red ASIC.

Getting back to KALAVO's point, I would goto the Council or corporation that controls the airport and ask to see the plan for airside/landside boundaries. If you hangar is landside inspectors have the right to walk in but you are not required to display an ASIC.

[Howard Hughes]

Jaba

Even Police have very limited powers to access your hangar unless invited.
My wife however (a State Government employee) is able to enter premises and and take evidence (computers, etc...) without a warrant! All based on 'suspicion' only...:suspect:

[SPL-101]

Hey Guys

Since were on the topic of ASIC's, I just want to know what it can be used for besides its Aviation uses. Can I use it as a form of identification when I go clubbing or something so they know I'm over 18?

Thanks

[Old Akro]

Picking window locks, scraping ice off the windscreen, fixing wobbly restaurant tables......

[maverick22]

Free entry into the strippers in Cairns;)

So I'm told anyway

[Wildpilot]

Mav22

I can confirm this rumor ( although I think you know this! ) also some bars in Cairns will wave the entry fee with a smile and a flash of the asic card.

[Horatio Leafblower]

10% discount at most airport food outlets... :D

[YPJT]

Can I use it as a form of identification when I go clubbing or something so they know I'm over 18?

Unfortunately no. An ASIC can be issued to a person under 18yrs, the only difference being that they are not subject to a security background check.

Ironically, despite all the documents we have to produce to prove ID and operational need, the ASIC itself is not a recognised form of ID for things like 100 point checks at banks etc.:ugh:

Getting back to KALAVO's point, I would goto the Council or corporation that controls the airport and ask to see the plan for airside/landside boundaries. If you hangar is landside inspectors have the right to walk in but you are not required to display an ASIC.

Quite simply, it is determined by where the airside signs are located. If on the outside of the hanger - landside, then all of the hangar will be designated as airside. If the hangar is exempt, then the signs will be on the inside doors exiting to the airside area. All operators of the airports will be Aviation Industry Participants under the relevent airport's Transport Security Program (TSP) and as such should have a copy of that document which will show plans or drawings of these areas.

[SPL-101]

YPTJ thanks.....I thought the ASIC might be the highest form of recognized identification because of the security check. So really there's no use for it, apart from stopping you getting fined by airport officials.

Thanks anyway.

[PyroTek]

Has the government ran out of uses to waste it's money or something? ASIC checkers?:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Blueyonda]

YPJT

With regards to your comment about airside sign positioning on hangars, is there a reference in the transport security Act or Regs that reflects your comment or is it in TSP's?

[PA39]

Tell 'em to go back to Germany to rejoin the rest of the Gestapo !! bloody police state!! :mad::mad::mad:

[wateroff]

As a pilot the ASIC means jack****e,

Doesn't get you anything
Still have to go through all the rot to get to the aircraft,
Still get crapped on by security,
Still get treated like passengers
Still have to empty bag, pockets, bowels before getting 'airside', where everyone ends up anyway!!!!!

Passengers are ahead because they dont need to go thru the paperwork and expense to have the privelege of dragging this useless card around all the time, and now to get barked at because it is not at the right angle.

[Worrals in the wilds]

On the subject of "rude" ASIC inspectors, usually they will formally identify themselves and explain what they are doing.

I have no problem at all with ASIC checks. It is the obligation of any ASIC holder in a designated area to challenge any person without one. However, I have a massive problem with rude officials because it is completely unnecessary and only hinders the process, while alienating the vast majority of airside workers who are law abiding. I also think that entering a hangar without an escort is fraught with danger, and when one of them slips on a puddle of goo or walks into something they shouldn't it will probably turn ugly. A couple of government agencies are notorious for putting basic OH&S procedures behind gung-ho enthusiasm as Comcare knows only too well.

Judging by the original post, these people did not identify themselves, which is poor form for any government official unless they are in a uniform that readily identifies their position.

[Mr. Hat]

person can injure themselves in our workplace

What like having their jaw smashed off their face :} with a sidchrome special?

I had a dude ask to see my asic in Perth. I noticed he wasn't wearing one. My response? "Where's yours buddy?". Then walked off as he started looking through his pockets.

The message is security person/DOTARS or whoever you are:

1. I'm not in a government job so I don't have time to waste.
2. I work back of the clock so invest in some manners or you'll find I'm not nice back.

[aroa]

I had a CASA guy just breeze into my hangar, no name , no ID, didnt state his business or request entry. (all reqd CASA protocols) And common courtesy.
Started off asking about someone elses aircraft.
On confirming his CASA moniker I suggested he go fornicate with himself and be absent from the premises at the same time. Which he did.

About a week later I got a summons for "Threatening a Commonwealth officer"
... or should that read orrificer
When in court ... guess who didnt turn up. Yes .. the bully boy with no balls.. and no case to make either, but when you're a control freak you can waste the taxpayers time and money and cause a bit of angst.
Why..?? Because you can... and nothing better or more productive to do.

It really is time we told more of these plonkers to EFF OFF..!!
There are many other ASIC horror stories about.

We really are going down the National Socialism road to Naziism, as little by little our rights and liberties are eroded away.

The old US of A that had 9-11 looked to their GA industry to be part of the solution.
No here in convict land. Control freaks and bs empire building the go, and all those folk in GA are insulted as being seen as a threat, not an asset to help.

A 20 ton semi might bust a few more windows than an Auster.!

I think this country should be renamed Regulatastan.

And as you know, be very afraid of all those countries that end in 'stan'. :eek:

[YPJT]

Blueyonda,
With regards to your comment about airside sign positioning on hangars, is there a reference in the transport security Act or Regs that reflects your comment or is it in TSP's?

Whether the boundary is on the landside or airside doors of something like a hangar would be largely determined by the Security Risk Assessment (SRA) for that particular airport or facility. I would think it is covered in 3.15

Aviation Transport Security Regulations
3.15 Requirements for airside generally
(1) The requirements for the fencing of, and the provision of other
physical barriers to entry to, the airside area of a security
controlled airport are:
(a) subject to subregulation (2), a barrier sufficient to
delineate the airside area; and
(b) effective access control points to permit authorised access
to the airside area; and
(c) patrolling, electronic surveillance or any other suitable
measures to inspect the barriers for damage and to deter
and detect unauthorised access to the airside area; and
(d) if possible, illumination of the aircraft parking area while a
prescribed aircraft is parked there at night; and
(e) signs, each at least 0.4 m wide by 0.3 m high, and
otherwise complying with subregulation (4), and in the
number required by subregulation (5), fixed to the barrier;
and
(f) a sign at least 0.4 m wide by 0.3 m high, and otherwise
complying with subregulation (6), at every entrance to the
airside.

[Blueyonda]

YPJT - Thanks for that.

I don't know if some hangars are deemed not to be airside but if it was the case for some, my interpretation of 3.15 is the only barrier to airside would be the hangar doors including access doors in that barrier and not the landside access to the hangar (back of the hangar.)

However, I am not very good with this stuff.

B

[YPJT]

In The Weeds,

In the first editions of the regs, military personnel were not exempt except when crewing an aircraft. It was a bit of a stuff up which the dept fixed.

ATSR 3.06(2)
(2) Despite regulation 3.03, a member of a defence force to whom
this regulation applies need not display an ASIC in a secure
area if the member:
(a) is on duty and involved:
(i) in the operation of an aircraft; or
(ii) in supporting the operation of an aircraft; and
(b) is in uniform or other role appropriate clothing; and
(c) displays proper identification as a member of a defence
force.

Blueyonda,

I have seen both ie signs on the back door of the hangar and signs on the doors leading direct to airside. Again, all determined by individual risk assessment which then dictates the TSP. A hangar servicing RPT aircraft would obvioiusly be required to have more stringent protocols in place.

[Homesick-Angel]

Some of the most self important (and at times dangerous) people in the world are the ones with the least amount of real power and/or actual practical usefulness in the world but who are given powers to harass and bully.

The ASIC is complete Sh1te. And obviously the huge cost of these things is what pays these muppets.:mad:

[Xcel]

There are also those elastic holders you wear on your arm...

Remember when I was out working from a station where the airstrip was used to push cattle from the one yard to the trucks - Casa in it's wisdom wanted it to have a 6ft fence with signage and everyone wearing asics because an abo air caravan termed rpt landed once a week with mail...

as far as the "drug bust" style goes... Sex&travel sounds like a good idea - nicely of course:}

[YPJT]

Precisely what Commonwealth Government Department(s) employ "ASIC Inspectors"? Is it CASA? Do their "Investigators" (term loosely used), have that authority? Thanks.
Security inspectors work for the Office of Transport Security within the Dept of Infrastructure and Transport (formerly DOTARS, DITRDLG) Nothing whatsoever to do with CASA.

And obviously the huge cost of these things is what pays these muppets Not quite. The costs for an ASIC go in part to AUSCHECK within the Attorney Generals Dept who do the background security checking. Then there is the cost of the production of the card which normally run at about $40 - $50 each as not too many issuing bodies could handle the capital outlay for the equipment required which is around $40,000. Then someone has to recive your application, process it, and mail your card back which at best they will make $50 - $60 per card.
So the cost of an ASIC in no way goes to paying Transport Security Inspectors.

Remember when I was out working from a station where the airstrip was used to push cattle from the one yard to the trucks - Casa in it's wisdom wanted it to have a 6ft fence with signage and everyone wearing asics because an abo air caravan termed rpt landed once a week with mail...
CASA never decreed that persons being airside on a security controlled airport had to wear ASICs. That honour goes to OTS. CASA don't care about aviation security. You only have to look at what a botch they did of issuing their ASICs to GA realise that.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Before anyone gets over-excited and starts telling people to sod off, be aware that the big airports also employ contract security guards to check ASICs and the AFP/AUP will do it occasionally as well, if they get super bored.

Division 6.6 of the Aviation Transport Security Regs refers. It also requires said official to identify themselves.

YPJT, I'm sure there used to be a section in the regs that required any ASIC holder to challenge a person in a designated area if they weren't displaying an ASIC, has it disappeared or am I hallucinating legislation that never existed? :\

[YPJT]

Warrals,
hmm got me on that one. It might come under responsibilities as prescirbed within the relevant TSP, Reg 2.22

[Backfire]

Hi all,

I think that rather than bitching about all this we should take the time to be thankful for the safety and security we now enjoy because our valiant government made such wise and non knee-jerk decisions regarding the very real threat that aviation has always posed in this country.

I must admit that at first I was sceptical but now I am a firm supporter, in fact since my local airfield installed it's beautiful new, government funded, 6 foot barb wire topped fence and security gates there has been NO hijackings, explosions, gun related crime or other misc terrorist incidents at all... NONE!

Now compare this to all the terror and threats we endured throughout the years before and this is a great result, and proves that all the extra expense and hassles we now deal with as aviation employees and enthusiasts is well worth it.

:ugh::ugh:

[Worrals in the wilds]

...in fact since my local airfield installed it's beautiful new, government funded, 6 foot barb wire topped fence and security gates there has been NO hijackings, explosions, gun related crime or other misc terrorist incidents at all... NONE!

You're such a wet blanket :}.
On a faintly positive note it probably also has a lot fewer feral pigs, stray dogs, old codgers in hatchbacks trying to find the Virgin carpark and dudes going night-fishing, too. Actually it's alleged that the fishing dudes just bought themselves some ladders, but ya can't have everything! :ouch:

[Tinstaafl]

Why wouldn't they just buy a pair of wire cutters? Much cheaper & could then walk through the fence.

[Lancair70]

You can drive a boat so close to the end of rwy24 at XXXX you can almost read a landing pilots ASIC, and there's no fence to stop someone from walking on to the rwy :ooh::eek:, yet this is a security controlled airport with several RPT DJ, JQ and ZL flights daily.