Motion CL900

[Old Akro]

Does anyone have one yet? I'm looking at you FTDK. It seems to have come out more expensive than the rumours were suggesting. I see they are in the current Harris Technology catalogue, but not the website.

I've moved my LS800 to using a bluetooth GPS, which makes the cockpit a lot better without wires, but battery life has nearly halved. I prefer the iPad for reading charts, but you can't go past the LS800 enroute and in the terminal area. But it would be better with a modern processor and Windows 7.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I have one ordered!

Standby for a pirep.

Dr :8

[tail wheel]

Techno Junkies! :bored:

[Wally Mk2]

...........geeez forky what only one? ya slipping there:E


Wmk2

[Jabawocky]

That is to test with.........of course he needs to have a plane to fly, or one that does!

I am thinking the apple is the go, as my LS800 has a terminal problem:sad:. If only Champagne FP would work on iPad I would be in for one.

Jepps is on iPad now plus all the other good apps, so only the Champers FP holds me back.

[PLovett]

Jaba, don't know about the iPad (want one but don't want to pay for one) but my MacBook Pro can run Windows which will run Champ FP. I'm sure Forkie or Chuck will be able to enlighten you further. :ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I'm sure Forkie or Chuck will be able to enlighten you further. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Nope! Forkie is a Mac-free zone.

Dr :8

[T28D]

I use a Motion CFT-003 on my Yacht, absolutely brilliant, hot battery change and I get 4 hours out of a battery running Expedition with Intelsat C for Predict Wind on deck using 802.11G

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Yeah!!!!.......

And I use a paper chart, a 'pencil' as a 'recording device', a bit of plastic wif fings marked onnit for dustance, and, a BIG FAT rubber for wen oi make a moistake.....

Wif apols to Joolia.....

An' I ain't NEVER bin 'lost' Yet!!!!

Cheers:ok::ok:

[Jabawocky]

ahhhh Griffo, you is a funny bugger :ok:

But you can't read pprune while in the clag......and BNE CEN does get boring some days :}

[VH-XXX]

At this time, the future is with iPad and OzRunways II, when it is released shortly. I'm already running the beta with live WAC, VTC, VNC, ERC & DAPS. Rest assured when you see it running you WILL be wanting it.

When they bring out the Android version, you may want to install it on the new ASUS tablet with the sexy detachable keyboard and massive battery life, a very impressive unit indeed.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNMLJC8xunTl3xNcZZ1ulkRVMHD1SffZvbYO4QX9o XMIflERrP

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

The problem with the iPad is that they appear to be susceptible to "Cones of Silence", where the GPS stops working !!

An "on the ball" copilot with a G495 will save you from BIG embarassment !

Dr :8

[Old Akro]

Ozrunways documents are not accountable IFR documents. You acknowledge that they are not to be used as flight reference each time you start it up. You need Jepps for IFR use. And Ozrunways use the AsA charts - after a number of years on Jepps, I'm not going back.Also Ozrunways does not load the entire database on the iPad (unlike Jepp). You need internet access to download each new chart, after which that chart remains on the iPad. So, if you want a chart you didn't expect in flight you're in trouble. The Jepp subsription also does a nice job of document control, so you know you are on the right version. Ozrunways a nice thing (especially for the price) but its not an IFR solution.

IPad is really good, but the iPad Jepps don't yet have GPS support (it has been reported that it is coming). There are also some issues about the Ipad turning off when it gets too hot and other stuff. It is a very good thing to read in flight, but it needs a backup and its not the full solution (at least not yet).

The Motion tablet is the best thing so far. It has a daylight visible screen and warm swappable batteries and good GPS support. The Jepp enroute software is outstanding, especially with terminal chart overlays on the enroute maps. The big problem is that Motion fell asleep between the LS800 & CL900. Some of the recent tablets (eg the Viewsonic 10 inch one) with LED screens are not too bad, but don't have adequate battery life and (unlike Motion) don't have an option to extend battery life with swappable batteries etc. And I consider that a solid state disk drive is mandatory. The potential of the a normal disk drive failing at altitude might be small, but its a potential failure that can be easily crossed of the list with a SSD.

For the IFR pilot, I haven't found a better option than a Motion tablet plus ipad plus paper trip plates. I seem to be settling into using the Motion on the ground (for taxiways at unfamiliar airports) and enroute to the start of the approach, then changing to the ipad for the approach. Paper charts are on the kneepad, but frankly the iPad is more readable.

I use CFP rather than Champagne and it works nicely with the ipad using remote desktop to a version running on the server. I believe there are options to achieve the same thing with desktops in a non-server environment.

[VH-XXX]

On OzRunways you just download all of the maps straight up, pretty easy, all stored in the memory. Hopefully it will be approved for use shortly.

[Allan L]

appear to be susceptible to "Cones of Silence", where the GPS stops working !!


Perhaps the tablet was busy doing other things?

I had that happen with a netbook running some (ground/ road) navigator software and the GPS just stalled and the map didn't advance.

Later (after getting lost and reverting to paper) I tracked it down to the fact that the anti-virus checker had decided to do it's thing (full disk scan) thus tieing up all the PC grunt!

[Wally Mk2]

'griffo' I agree wif ya but we are fighting a loosing battle with the techno geeks in here:E .................'tis the way of the future:ok:



Wmk2

[Waghi Warrior]

Are they available in Australia yet and if so where ? cos I want one NOW ! looks like the best thing I have seen for years.

[Old Akro]

Harris Technology have them in the current paper catalogue (for $1396 I think - not sure which version) but I don't see them on their website yet. I was told on the weekend that they aren't yet in stock, but due within days.

[Shagpile]

Old Arko, please check some of your facts.

Also Ozrunways does not load the entire database on the iPad (unlike Jepp).

Actually it does download & store everything on the device for offline use.

You need Jepps for IFR use

As far as I'm aware, these have only been approved for sole IFR use in America by Executive Jet. The FAA granted them use in all phases of flight after extensive testing including a rapid decompression test to 51,000ft. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't yet heard of an Australian carrier granted an approval by CASA for the Jepp app, so as it stands, both appear not yet for operational use.

[JCJ]

Hey Rowan,

Any updates on Ozrunways2.0??

Eagerly awaiting it!

[Shagpile]

In about 2 days hopefully if Apple dont find something that doesn't comply with their strict terms & conditions. Sometimes it's just a throw of the dice which reviewer you get...

[VH-XXX]

I've got OZRunways V2.0 on the iPad and iPhone, it works great and I hope you guys will enjoy using it as much as I do when it's released to the public shortly. If you're using the iPad be sure to grab the kneepad or a windscreen suction mount - same thing for the iPhone, a suction mount from DealExtreme or similar will do the job nicely.

Tip for when you use it at first; hook up to a good wireless access point and download all he maps straight off, then you won't have to rely on 3G, but you always can if you need to. It's not that you need all the maps straight off, it's just that everyone will want to start playing with it and zooming in all over the country.

[SeaMoss]

Try an external GPS e.g.
Bluetooth: Universal GPS Receiver - Sporty's Pilot Shop (http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/16597)
or
Plugin: Bad Elf | Bad Elf GPS for iPod touch, iPhone, & iPad (http://bad-elf.com/products/gps/)

Both work seamlessly with the iPhone/iPad/Ozrunways.

[VH-XXX]

Thanks Seamoss - they are great for those that only bought the WIFI version of the iPad as they don't have a GPS in them. Something to watch out for if you are buying an iPad.

[Shagpile]

You should also be able to tether to your iPhone4 and get GPS from that...(requires iOS4.3 I think)

[185skywagon]

We found yesterday that tethering the iphone 4 to the ipad2 only give gps updates at approx 1/minute, which is useless.
The tethering process is not all that stable either.

185.

[Old Akro]

I believe you can connect a bluetooth GPS engine to the iPad. I got mine from Johnny Appleseed, but there are heaps on ebay and other places. I use the bluetooth GPS with the Motion LS800 it works well, but battery life takes a pretty big hit. Its not such a big issue with the Motion since you can warm swap batteries, but might be something to be wary of with the iPad - especially since they shut down when they get too hot.

Personally, I don't think that the iPad is a moving map solution. Its a wonderful chart reader. For IFR use the Jeppview software is really the only game in town and that requires a Windows device.

For VFR use, frankly I'd stick to a Garmin handheld.

[VH-XXX]

Personally, I don't think that the iPad is a moving map solution.

Just wait till you see OzRunways 2.0 then!

[185skywagon]

vh,
I am looking forward to it.
Airnav Pro on ipad is not bad either.

185.

[Old Akro]

But Ozrunways is not an IFR solution

For VFR, I prefer my Garmin 495 handheld. Then you get all sorts of other bits like the synthetic instrument panel and the emergency functions.

Ozrunways is a really excellent ERSA replacement, but in my opinion its in no-mans land between Jeppview and a Garmin handheld.

[Jabawocky]

Well, an ipad with the full suite of Rowans apps, maps and daps, plus say Champagne Flight planner and the Jepp View app because jepp plates are what you have in paper and you would have the lot.

All we need is for Champagne FP to be made into an App which Rob is thinking about doing soon.

I might have to join the dark side soon.......:suspect:

[Old Akro]

I've spent nearly a year dual running the paper & electronic subscription and have only this week given up on paper. It does take an adjustment.

And I think there is a strong argument for redundant systems. Although FTDK seems to take this to extreme.

For me its Jeppview on a tablet, Jepp charts on the iPad and trip plates on a kneeboard. I run CFP on the laptop (which also has Jeppview) and keep the outstanding NAIPS app on both the iphone and ipad as well as Ozrunway and Auswis.

Agree about flight planning software for the iPad, although printing from the ipad is difficult, which means that the laptop and HP H470 portable printer still has a place. Remote desktop on the iPad overcomes a lot of its shortcomings.

[baswell]

But Ozrunways is not an IFR solution
Can you explain this statement? As far as we know, the Jeppesen app is no more legal to use a sole reference than OzRunways.

And even when they are, then it just becomes a personal preference between AsA and Jepp plates.

Ozrunways is a really excellent ERSA replacement, but in my opinion its in no-mans land between Jeppview and a Garmin handheld.
As developer of the software and as one of the persons who has flow OzRunways 2.0 the most, I strongly disagree with that statement. Garmins show you a tiny map with almost unreadable symbols until you zoom in so far you lose all situational awareness! Our maps are huge and readable. Selecting waypoints is much easier too. Or how about tapping an ALA on screen and going straight to the ERSA entry? Try that on a Garmin! :)

We have some development to do for multi-waypoint trips (currently only direct to) but that will be here before the year is out. And then we're taking it way beyond any handheld Garmin thanks to having an internet connection on board.

Just wait until you actually fly with OzRunways 2.0 before you make your judgement! :)

(You know how hard it is to please VH-XXX, so if he's impressed with the Beta versions we've been sending him...)

[Jabawocky]

(You know how hard it is to please VH-XXX, so if he's impressed with the Beta versions we've been sending him...)

You think he is hard to please!

Send me a copy to test, be another 50 hours in the next month on the RV as a minimum. Some of your Beta Testers hardly fly.....and one in a B777 does not count :E.

J:}

As Jaba prepares to join the iFad clan.

[Old Akro]

Part of my bias to the Jepp software is my bias toward Jepp and against ASA. So, Ozrunway is never likely to win me. As I see it the Jepp viewer fits as part of the Jeppview package and embodies a number of processes to check that the charts are up to date and I like the indexing of the various charts in Jepp better than Ozrunway and the charts seem to load faster.

As usual, CASA is a few steps behind. But I'm sure you know that Jepp charts in the iPad has been approved as sole reference for either 2 or 3 RPT operators in the states. My reading of CASA's position (repeated - MY reading) is that they are sitting on the fence a bit and their current attitude is that its up to the pilot to demonstrate that they have an adequate arrangement for electronic charts. My opinion (once again note MY opinion), is that Jeppview with the associated Jepp paperwork and amendment records together with the use of a dedicated tablet and a backup strategy satisfies this. I use the iPad as a more convenient chart reader in the cockpit, but once I'm on Jepp for the tablet, its going to be Jepp on the iPad.

[VH-XXX]

Akro Says: Ozrunways is a really excellent ERSA replacement, but in my opinion its in no-mans land between Jeppview and a Garmin handheld.

Respectfully Akro, VERSION 2.0 (out shortly) has FULL WAC, VNC, VTC, VTC inset, ERC, DAP's etc.... you haven't seen it yet I suspect.

Jaba the hut says: Some of your Beta Testers hardly fly.....

Nice one Jaba, I wonder if that was directed at me :)

[baswell]

Akro: I guess the same is true for OzRunways; if you have the DAP book handy for if the pad fails, why not use the iPad?

One of the changes we have in 2.0 is the quick select bar which sits at the top of the plate reader. (you can hide it too) You can load up 5 charts and switch between them with one touch. So get your STAR, approaches, apron chart and ERSA pre loaded before you get to your destination.

Of course we are always eager to hear from users how we could do things better!

Did you pre-download all the plates? (in the config menu) if you do that, plates load almost instantly. (less than a second on iPad 1, much faster on 2)

[VH-XXX]

Small pics but you get the idea.... the new OzRunways is a far cry from the original version with no maps. It's quite suitable even for a use on the iPhone. When using the the iPhone I'd compare screen size to the Garmin GPS map 96c. The iPad size is more like a Garmin 695.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/oz1.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/oz2.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/oz3.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/oz4.jpg

[Heathjb]

Just got my cl900 delivered today from 4dglobal dot com dot au. Awesome unit and good build from first looks!

[Old Akro]

Please give us a critique after you've flown with it.

[Jabawocky]

.............................from the red centre, OzRunways boys and girls :D :ok::ok::ok:

yes he ipad is :ok::ok::ok::ok:

J;)

[Old Akro]

I think the Motion CL900 and the dual boot Viewsonic are the only real options. But the Viewsonic battery life is less than desirable. I'm still putting up with the my LS800. I've bought 2 laptops and an iPad this year and think that enough for the moment. Looking longingly at a CL900 though and keen to hear reports.