RFDS Central Section EBA

[PPRuNeUser0161]

I believe the RFDS Central Ops are currently in negotiations. Anyone know how they are doing?
SN

[hurlingham]

I understand the first offer was rejected - by a very large majority by the pilot group.

Back to the table for the HR team.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

This might be a tough one. I understand they are well behind the other sections when it comes to remuneration.
SN

[glekichi]

It's been dragging on for almost a year now with no real end in sight.
30/31 votes were "no" on the first offer back in January.
Intervals between meetings have been much too long, and now they are trying to tell us that not having the agreement in place by the end of financial year means no back pay. Working for 2009 pay in 2011... Hmm

[PPRuNeUser0161]

glekichi
Ok thats obviously not good. But you know if you ALL stick together and be patient (very patient) you will get a good outcome. Get advice re the back pay (FWA), not sure they can get out of that. Remember its industry standard your after as far as pay is concerned.
SN

[Howard Hughes]

I don't think they can do that Glekichi, the only way forward is to stick together!:ok:

[Harry Cooper]

Why can't we just have a national EBA for the pilot group? Rumours are that funding is to be removed from the section CEO's control and turned over to the national board why not do it with salaries as well. It would save having these bitter little wars in every section every couple of years that just seems to brew more resentment every time we go through it.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

HC
I agree. We need a nation wide RFDS pilots EBA. We should also be able to transfer between sections without re-applying and "doing a deal" with our LSL and other entitlements.
SN

[Jamair]

Hey Harry, haven't you got more important (smaller things) to deal with just at the moment;);)

glek, I have recently been part of an EBA that dragged out over two years, and went to arbitration. The backpay was to the end of the previous agreement, ie two years back. Maybe run that issue past your AFAP or FWA rep.:suspect: Mind you, the red woodpecker got most of it back in tax anyway....:ugh:

Dunno why RFDS doesn't have a national system on all counts - one HR department rather than 4, one EBA for all pilots, one for all nurses, one standard for all issues...... would be logical, no?:confused:

[Desert Duck]

Jamair - Totally agree

Only part of most RFDS sections that is rapidly expanding is HR and Admin.

No wonder it is getting harder to compete with Charter operators who want to pick up the State Govt Health contracts.

But - like the chance of getting rid of State Govts, not likely to happen.

[Wally Mk2]

I feel for you guys/gals.The RFDS is the best job by far but don't forget it's entwined with commercial pressures, Govt contracts (where applicable) & therefore subject to all that goes with the commercial reality of it all, cost containment.
Fuel, maint & hardware are pretty much not negotiable but the human element is, that's the part that is negotiable hence the constant battle to get better wages for the pilots & reduce costs for the managers.
The original concept which Flynn dreamed up many years ago is still there but pretty much only in spirit these days, it's now a big business with all the business dramas attached. The recent loss of the Vic Air Ambo contract proved that, the RFDS was the only dedicated aero-medical provider in this country that I can think of (with no other interests elsewhere)& it was pushed out purely due commercial reasons,money!

Good luck to those that are still there living the dream & being part of a respected community as man can't live by respect alone:ok:

Wmk2

[hurlingham]

Duck & Wally

Well said both - bloody shame but how true.

Would be interesting to see the list of respondants to contracts if they had to do clinics (inc providing the medical staff) & primary retrievals as well as the contract ambulance work.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Wal
Thats not quite right mate. Fuel, aircraft and parts ARE negotiable and the RFDS would find that they would have good purchasing power if they worked together on things like a national fleet plan, fuel hedging, fuel supply contracts and parts stores, pilot training, recruiting and aircraft medical fitouts. Thats without even looking at the medical side of things. Mate if they just got together we could probaly knock 20% off the cost running an airframe over it's life. They are their own worst enemy on this. They operate the largest fleet of King Airs in the southern hemisphere and they could plan the replacement strategy over 50 years if they wanted!

SN

[Wally Mk2]

Okay 'SN' perhaps I'll re phrase y words for the likes of you.
Negotiating of the human element is personal effects us, where it hurts, the other is purely numbers on paper. I think most here get my point.


Wmk2

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Apart from the Central Section who are well behind for some reason RFDS pilot's are remunerated fairly well. Although there is always room to improve. As far as losing contracts is concerned this will continue until the RFDS gets competitive. You just can't blow endless amounts of public money favouring one operator if they are hidiously expensive. On the other hand I would say that if the RFDS is within cooee of the cheapest tender they should get the work based on reputation and the fact the money stays in the country.

One way to help the RFDS be more competitive may be to consolidate and get an economy of scale advantage over the competition. Fight fire with fire!

SN

[glekichi]

A national pilots eba would be a great thing. An "aircrew" eba including nurses would be another interestig option. Like the others here though, I can't see it happening - especially with the different roster system here.
The feeling I get is that the pilots are sticking together on this one, and with the company not looking like budging, pia seems inevitable.

[The Butcher's Dog]

A national EBA for the RFDS has been mooted for quite a few years - It might be more likley if some of the old wood gets scraped away. Portability of T &C's with the ability to apply to Bases around Australia would make the job perfect!
Adding medical staff to an EBA would not be easy though.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Interesting. So whats the advantage of bringing nurses in under a pilots eba?

Nationalisation would be great. Earn points for working remote areas for a transfer to your choice of location. Transfer between sections without having to apply for the job. Work your way up the ranks. What a great career path!

You know what? IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! Too many big fish in little ponds etc.

Whats the latest offer central have put on the table?
SN

[glekichi]

Seeing that we work the same shifts and seem to be forever overtaking each other on the salary front, having the nurses under the same eba would make sense in terms of a united workforce. At the moment it seems like either one or the other is always in the middle of an eba, bringing with it all the usual unpleasantries.
Still, a nation wide pilot's eba is what we really need, and, as has been said, the ability to move between bases.
I still don't know how it would work with our differing rosters. We need some kind of equation that considers and puts different weights on standby time, actual duty time, time of day, and flight time to give an overall figure that is easy to compare. I'd imagine that would plug right into an FRMS algorithm too.
We have been told that our roster of five on, grey day, two off means we are less productive than qld thus the pay gap, but I don't see how that could be. We fly 550-600hrs a year as is, averaging around 45hrs a week of rostered standby of which around 35hrs become actual duty, plus the usual few hours of overtime outside of rostered standby times.
Plus, if ya ask Wally we need some danger money for flying the single too! :}

[Desert Duck]

SN - or work in a remote Base & stay there coz that is where the real work is done.

[Wally Mk2]

"glek" they don't pay you brave lot enuf that's for sure:ok: A braver bunch I've not seen,or should that be a sillier lot?:E

With 10 yrs service on the old Beech I was getting around $92+K gross if ya take the salary sacrifice into account meaning I'd have to earn the abv amount elsewhere to take home the same coin. Not too shabby for around 370 hrs a year & everything supplied:-)



Wmk2

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Desert Duck
Thats it mate. Certainly the best aviating.

The roster at Central should play no part in the remuneration. If someone said to me I'll work you two days a week and give you 70K thats no good. I need to put bread and wine on the table and if that means working a bit harder thats what I have to do. The money has to be in it because you have bills to pay and the cost of living ain't going down. The fact is the rest of the RFDS pilots nation wide earn a lot more than a CS pilot does and thats just not right. I earn a lot more and only fly 350 hours a year max.

You guys work way too hard for what amounts to below industry standard pay. The RFDS is a fantastic job and organisation but they tend to be a bit slow when it comes to looking after it's own. 13 years ago CS was the envy of all sections to work at! They were the highest paid.

Do the new starts at CS get permanent jobs or are they still doing the 12 month contract thing? Or does it depend on who you are?
SN

[glekichi]

Don't have the latest offer in front of me but what they presented appeared to be an attempt to split the group, offering one base a significant percentage increase over another.
The group seems to still be united, so not sweating at all, just over it!

[rcoight]

My understanding of the latest offer is that it is essentially the same as the last one - which was soundly rejected - for the Adelaide based pilots, with a further increase for the YPAG and YBAS groups.
However none of the increases offered come close to bringing our wages into line with the other sections.

The obvious strategy is to try to split the group.
They seem to have given up on the Adelaide pilots, and hope to get enough "yes" votes from the others for the offer to fall over the line.
And of course there is the threat of no back pay to try to scare a few more into voting yes.

The good news is that all indications are that the pilot group will remain united and this rubbish offer will receive the same treatment as the last rubbish offer.

And very soon after that we will be voting on PIA...

[Hans Solo]

Hope you fella's stick together, it's the only way to achieve your goals, especially if the management are hell bent on trying to split you into groups in order to achieve their aims.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any section has actually gone any further than advising their respective managers that PIA is being applied for in the FWA.
Once management realise that it is actually going to happen, they will do whatever it takes to avoid it.
Of course, it's a last resort, and it must be shown that negotiations alone will no longer achieve a desirable outcome for either party.
I'm not sure if it's still the case, but only AFAP members were allowed to utilise PIA under the new (Howard) Industrial Laws (providing that the AFAP is your Third Party to your Agreement).
Who is assisting you guys with your negotiations,TWU, AFAP??
:ok:
Solo

[Howard Hughes]

They seem to have given up on the Adelaide pilots, and hope to get enough "yes" votes from the others for the offer to fall over the line.
From a management perspective, if the vote is any more convincing than 51/49%, then they offered too much!;)

All I can say is stick together, in the last five years I have been a part of two succesful EBA negotiations that have seen my pay almost double in that time. If you stick together and seek protected industrial action (which we had to do both times), they will eventually have to come to the table.

Good luck boys and girls.:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Whatever you do stick together. Overwhelmingly reject any substandard offers that do not equally benefit all concerned. Proceed to PIA ASAP its only then you will get the results your looking for. My guess is they'll fold at the 11th hour.
SN

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Any further news on this??
SN