Decompression....

[3 bladed beast]

The Army has decreed it necessary that ALL personnel coming back from Afgan are to complete decompression at RAF Akrotiri.

I completely agree that formed units who have been under severe stress for months on patrols, watching comrades die, operating in FOBs and seeing the full horrors of Afgan first hand need to do it.

However, this one seems an "army catchall' and personnel living in relative comfort at Kandahar/Kabul etc, doing office jobs or not on the front line will find themselves often as individuals caught up in a lot of 'venting' at the decompression.

This will also be another two days travel time, add stress and inconvenience to an awful journey home from theatre which already takes 2-3 days.

Yet another thing that we have to put up with just to try and do a job we are ordered to in Afgan.

:ugh:

[timex]

Their is a difference between front line and rear ech troops, however everyone will need to do some sort of "de-stress" before returning home wether you spent all day in camp its still has some effect. Duty of Care?

[3 bladed beast]

There is a huge difference between front line and support branches. From my 8 years of doing Ops in Iraq and afgan, i've never decompressed and haven't had any problems in not doing so.

I've been lucky and not seen the full horrors of this war; I live in relative comfort, eat reasonably well and maintain good contact with friends and family back home. I am not stressed at all, and apart from the normal minor gripes, am fairly content on Ops.

There are many procedures in place that already cover 'duty of care' and decompression for non front line isn't the way forward.

From the reports of what happens on decompression, I am fearing that I will need decompressing after decompression!!!!!

[Off Hot]

This is old news...

[Willard Whyte]

Not to everyone.

[just another jocky]

Off Hot (http://www.pprune.org/members/355881-off-hot)
http://www.pprune.org/images/avatars/th_new.gif

Probationary PPRuNer

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Isle
Posts: 1

This is old news...

Joined this weekend and this is your first post? Whether it is old news to you is fairly irrelevant, it may not be to others and it has certainly changed since I was made to decompress as it was just formed units then. If it now really means all troops, then this is army beurocracy gone mad. It was a total waste of time and effort when my formed unit did it.

Seems the army top brass have lost any vestige of common sense. :ugh:

[PTC REMF]

How do you differentiate. What about the techies cleaning up the gore after an IRT shout, or the fireman dealing with the severely injured and bodies at HLS Nigtingale? it would be too hard to police. Its not that bad when do it, and the staff try to make it as comfortable as possible. Accommodations okay and the food is quite good.

[Stupidbutsaveable]

Presumeably this has more to do with heading off future litigation than applying common sense.

@Timex. It's fair to say the pool of those needing it is broader than just formed units, but the thought of everyone having to do it is laughable. The most stressful thing about KAIA is the speed limit, closely followed by the pizza queue and the $/Euro exchange rate applied in the PX.:rolleyes:

[Jimlad1]

Its annoying but I can see the logic behind it - I recall finding it pretty weird going from BAS to Brize in the space of 9 hours and then straight on leave. A short stop would have helped me get my head reacclimatised and helped me 'reset' ahead of getting back.

But that said, when I came back from HERRICK I felt glad I wasnt jumping off at AKT, and glad to be heading home.

I don't think we'll ever get the balance quite right.

[Diablo Rouge]

When I have a 'Gozomee head' on, all I wish to do is get on a jet at BAS and get into a car (ideally driven by DCoS) at BZN and go home. There is enough support from friends, family, curry house and pub to complete a full reset. I appreciate though that not everybody has that luxury and the differences exist between service, task completed, and age of individual.

That said; it should be a single service procedure rather then an ARMY Rule OK mandate. The Army already bully certain members of the RAF by mandating that they can complete RAF PDT but must also complete Army PDT (OpTag) in addition, prior to deployment. Somebody in the RAF Chain of Command needs to put the senior members of the Army fraternity back in their box, especially in regard to joint units.

Youngsters on tour have their needs, which can be quite different from mature members of the armed forces. This is like the walking-out rules in NI being written for the benefit of three pissed paras in a Ford Fiesta.

[whowhenwhy]

Having had one of "my" guys commit suicide, partly because of what he saw on Telic, partly because of the crap state of affairs for NFU guys and for a whole heap of other stuff, then anything that the system can do to help NFU guys gets my vote. And that's exactly what I told the SI!

[just another jocky]

Having had one of "my" guys commit suicide, partly because of what he saw on Telic, partly because of the crap state of affairs for NFU guys and for a whole heap of other stuff, then anything that the system can do to help NFU guys gets my vote. And that's exactly what I told the SI!

That's tragic, and systems should be in place whereby individuals who have experienced traumatic events can be identified and treated accordingly. But the army way is a catchall covering only their own regimental systems that bears no relevance to 000's of others who don't come anywhere near to the stresses of those walking the streets etc.

Surely we ought to be able to trust our officer and NCO cadre to identify anyone who may need help, with the assistance of trained medical staff.

[BEagle]

Personally, I think I'd be under more stress cooped up at Akronelli on the way home wondering whether the creaking old antique allocated to the AKT-BZN sector would get me back within at least a day or two of the planned arrival date.....:hmm:

[London Eye]

I am with PTC REMF on this one - it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. There will be some (many?) from FUs who have been through tough times but would cope perfectly well without decompression but it would be nigh impossible to differentiate. Against this background, allowing a separate approach from the different Services could create extra stresses, such as to the soldier who has to go through he process while watching others excused. In the circumstances it is not unreasonable (although not popular, and I say that as one who is as vulnerable to it as anybody else) to just get on with it and plan for the arrival day at BZN accordingly. In any case, the rules are unlikely to change and "fighting the white" is potentially more stressful than relaxing and enjoying....

[nice castle]

and it seems to me that most people who slag decompression in Akrotiri have never actually had any experience of it.

Fair enough to bitch and moan if having done it you found it irrelevant or lacking, but if not, there is little evidence to back up an opinion of it?

Bit like some jet jock moaning to me about having to go to the Falklands. "Oh, how many dets have you done?" I asked, "Oh none" he said, "but I bet it's rubbish!" was the reply. Which it probably was for him becaus he'd made his mind up he was going to have a sh*t time. Personally, I found the mixture of history, wildlife, flying, gym, social and other stuff which can't be mentioned here all rather appealing.:ok: Never got on with the spicy though, try as I did...

[jamier]

When we did decompression on return from herrick 13, even though wed only been rocketed a few times and not gone through anything the front line guys do it was a good way to chill out, have a laugh with your mates over a few beers without thinking about whats going on around you. The staff there are excellent in helping you have a good time and the CSE shows are excellent!

Overall i spent 2 nights there and would definetly give it a 9 almost 10 out of 10!

[VinRouge]

But for others doing 2 months on, 1-2 off, its just another day away from the family...

[3 bladed beast]

I think most people have a point on here, with various experiences both on Det and also of RSOI. But my original post was to show that there is little flexibility and greater responsibility should rest with Sqn/Regt bosses to decide whether guys need it.

I am out here 3-4 times a year for 6-8 weeks. With the catchall of RSOI ( which sadly has little relevance to the job I do) and now the decompression, they add at least another week to a relatively short det. All in all, it means another 4 weeks away a year, carrying out catchall, arse covering policies when in my very humble opinion, I don't need to do.

Before I get shouted at; I do at least 7 days pre det training, which covers all the good stuff of weapons/mines/100m shoot etc. But on top, we now have to do the RSOI which is aimed at a more 'fresh' recruit. We were told how to open bottles of water, how to set up PT in Fobs, how to wipe our backsides - the list goes on!! All of which had no relevance to my job, or life in Kandahar/Kabul on a main base.

When I return from det, I have a debrief with my Flt Cdr, there is Trim, and we have immense support in Kandahar should we witness anything, feel pressure, have concerns.

This isn't just what some RAF guys think. Having spoken with an Army Colonel, he was also extremely skeptical of the decom; he witnessed many things on his last one, which I wont list on here, but were horrific in nature. On paper, decom is a great idea, BUT for the guys that need it.

All in all, I just think that a greater flexibility would be better suited to both RSOI and Decom to meet the needs of individual units, than a catchall and arse covering exercise, which could be sorted out at unit level.

:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

little flexibility and greater responsibility should rest with Sqn/Regt bosses to decide whether guys need it

This is just as emotive.

"Why me boss?" etc

I had the chance of returning a couple of days early from a 6-month det - no leave, no phones. My boss wanted to hang on to me until my time was up but I managed to escape.

I would not have been a happy bunny if I had had to stop off enroute for a day or so. As it happens it would probably have been better for me had I stopped off and managed to slow down from the work tempo before I got home.

Same with Miss PN. She was on motor mouth for a few days and a couple of days enforced rest may well have helped her too.

[Whenurhappy]

3 Bladed Beast - having doen some time at KAF, there are lawful ways and means of avoiding RSOI - a sensible chat with OC RSOI (or whtever the post has morphed into) should see sense prevail...mind you, you are dealing with the Army.

[Professor Plum]

I am out here 3-4 times a year for 6-8 weeks. With the catchall of RSOI ( which sadly has little relevance to the job I do) and now the decompression, they add at least another week to a relatively short det. All in all, it means another 4 weeks away a year, carrying out catchall, arse covering policies when in my very humble opinion, I don't need to do.

Before I get shouted at; I do at least 7 days pre det training, which covers all the good stuff of weapons/mines/100m shoot etc. But on top, we now have to do the RSOI which is aimed at a more 'fresh' recruit. We were told how to open bottles of water, how to set up PT in Fobs, how to wipe our backsides - the list goes on!! All of which had no relevance to my job, or life in Kandahar/Kabul on a main base.

When I return from det, I have a debrief with my Flt Cdr, there is Trim, and we have immense support in Kandahar should we witness anything, feel pressure, have concerns.


My thoughts exactly.

As a Pilot who also has a similar det rotation cycle to you, it seems that having to do RSOI/Decompression etc only serves to increase our time away, and put more strain on families, and our Squadron's (planning etc). IMHO, whilst doing RSOI/Decompression, we are not doing anything "productive". If you add up all this time wasted doing RSOI/Decompression, it runs into a good few weeks per person per year. Thats a lot of "wasted" time.

I'm sure RSOI and decompression are useful to some. But not to somebody doing my particular job. RSOI is irrelevant to me. As for decompression, Life at KAF is relatively pleasant, and feel the resources would be best used elsewhere.

Just a thought.... I can do a 2 month det and have to do decompression. A young (brave!) squaddie can do 2 months, getting shot at, having a few mates blown up, generally being very stressed, then goes on R&R after 2 months and doesn't have to do Decompression..........

[timex]

Is it an Army or MOD driven directive?

[Talk Reaction]

I agree that unnessecary time away from home is a bad thing but do we have the capacity to decide on individual cases (of units or people) as to whether or not decomp is needed? Do we have the knowledge to see what is going on in someones head who may not know themselves or may be doing a good job of hiding something? If we do can the airbridge manage so much flexibility, is it managing now?
I think on balance it's needed in enough cases to make it worthwhile and prob the best system we'll get.
Regarding RSOI, if you go on a 6/9/12 month tour you only do it once, so if you're cycling through theatre on regular shorter dets you should be able to organise something quite easily. I think already if you've done it inside 6 months you don't need it again.

Jocky, I think you'd do well to think a little before posting, Off Hot may have only just posted but could have been reading the forum for a long time, maybe he/she just got a new username? With few exceptions no-ones views are worth more than anyone elses!

[Pontius Navigator]

From a chat with a colonel a couple of years ago I would guess Army. The submarine service has long done this and the Army copied them. Having learnt the lesson they are probably keen to avoid moral problems with light blue 'skivving' off home early.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

As I understand it, decompression is considered an absolute necessity for

all before returning back to UK.

Why isn't it compulsory before returning on the mid tour break? Surely the

risks are just the same.


Just a thought.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I like the way someone who joined the Army wants a more individualistic approach to his treatment.

Seriously - I doubt there are the resources to deal with this in any other way. We certainly don't have the med staff across the Forces to give a more individual service. KISS as the vast majority are doing 6 monthers and better to put people through it than risk non-qualified people making decisions on individuals that might not be right. Rather inconvenience a few and catch all than let them go by and miss potential problems.

[Easy Street]

In general terms I agree with you, Mr C, but there really does need to be some sort of dispensation from all this for guys that are out there 2 or 3 times a year, every year - a whole month per year on "non-core" business is a significant waste of money.

The chances of KAF-based personnel getting out of RSOI are now zero, as a 3-day RSOI is conducted at Bastion as part of the deployment process. Since the only useful bit of RSOI at KAF used to be the famil with the IDF alarms and the common rocket attack directions, getting a Bastion-specific RSOI appears a complete waste of time, as well as being 3 times longer than it was only a few weeks ago. Was the 'old' KAF RSOI really that unsafe?

The Bastion RSOI includes a full-kit 2.5 mile march to the range for weapon zeroing. Those who deploy without a personal weapon, such as FJ aircrew, have to sit and watch everyone else shoot before marching back again. The time could be much better spent getting ROE updates, reviewing theatre flying orders, etc... but no, sit in the sand for 6 hours doing bugger-all. Unbelievable.

[3 bladed beast]

I am convinced that a Sqn boss ( they do operate out here, so have a good feel for it, along with Execs) is ably placed to say that his Sqn members do not need to do decom.

I can only talk for the way we operate out here, and given the frequency of dets ( 4 a year) this COULD be looked at. Adding at least a week ( RSOI and decom) every time you are in theatre is simply crazy.

In simple terms, it means an extra 4 weeks a year is spent carrying out 'coverall' policy. Add at least a weeks annual deployment training, various SERE lectures, weapon zeroing, live shoots and you are easily up at 6 weeks. Whilst 6 weeks may not sound alot, multiply that by numbers of personnel on the Sqn and suddenly, you have an extremely inefficient system happening.

The knock on effects are people back home having to work harder and cover these extended periods away. You then have to consider family life and in general, just a quality of life. I know i'm in the forces, but we are now looking at 6-7 months away a year AT LEAST.

This comes at a time of cuts, pay freezes, worries over pensions etc etc. As said, RSOI and decom have merits, but I truly believe this could be looked at in more detail and it is a question I am asking of CAM already.

[timex]

Unless your Sqn Boss is a "Doc" I'd be very surprised if the powers that be would allow that, or that he/she would even want that responsibility..

[BEagle]

Of course, back in the days of a Royal Air Force, rather than a North-West Frontier Support Force, 'decompression' merely meant yet another Ruddles and vindaloo session in Stamford, followed by 25-45K in 3 sec the following day at AMTC North Luffenham...:suspect:

Remind me once again, WTF are the UK's armed forces actually there for in Afghanistan? Brave deeds aside, what exactly is the 'end game'?

[VinRouge]

I think the 2 issues of RSOI and Decomp are distinct. Decomp is one thing. Teaching SO3's how to wipe their arse and open bottles of water, instead of spending quality time with family, is a bit of a joke and shows some pretty poor decision making.

[Diablo Rouge]

The cynic in me thinks that this is smoke & mirrors for airlink accountability rather then sincere concern for all and sundry. Which could be why it is not applicable to R&R journeys; for IIRC, they have a higher priority then tourex travel. If this is so, I would prefer it for the system to be up front and admit that the airlink is threaders.

[BEagle]

Teaching SO3's how to wipe their arse and open bottles of water...

I realise that pongo officers such as Wodney and Woopert are as thick as pig$hit, but does everyone really need such instruction? Although, of course, cavalwy officers doubtless have a 'man' who does such things for them, don't you know....:ooh:

Would the alternative be that they might need 'open at other end' stickers on water bottles? And as for the other 'training objective'....:eek:

[Pontius Navigator]

DR, that did occur to me. A device to match troops out to airlift home.

What happens if 300 troops fly into AKR but the next jet only has capacity for 299?

[London Eye]

One might argue that the issues of decompression are different for a short R&R visit versus a longer-term return to "normal" domestic life - I am sure that there are stats somewhere that will have been considered. One thing for sure though: if decompression were deemed necessary before R&R visits then I think that we can all guess the only possible outcome :uhoh:.

[Mr C Hinecap]

You lot really look for a Mover's conspiracy where ever you can don't you?

Decompression makes sense for the vast majority of the poor b'stards who are out there, forward, doing the business. I have sympathy with those who are on regular short tours and don't perceive a need for their own decompression and they may well be right. This board is populated by the minority of the 9500 blokes out there and the system will always cover the majority. Can you imagine the press coverage if some rotary mate who was exempt decompression lost the plot and did something bad? As I said, I have sympathy for those on the regular returns but using the current system means that 'the costs fall where they lie' ie the sqns bear the brunt of the wasted man days. Anything else would incur a cost somewhere else and that isn't going to happen.
Everyone I have spoken to who did a hard tour saw the value in decompression.

[3 bladed beast]

Mr C! I really don't see anything that is looking for a Mover's conspiracy. The movers working out in Kaf, Bastion and Kabul are a good lot, working hard, with limited numbers!!

I really can't comment for other fleets or trades, but i KNOW that the job I ( we) do has yet to cause any adverse reaction, and that's a good 8-9 years worth of Dets.

I can tell you that stress does comes from getting into and out of theatre for all the reasons we are well aware of. Now we have the addition of decom ( and RSOI) which for us is completely unnecessary. As said, I will be following this up to see if Centre of Aviation Medicine has had an input or even consulted.

Once again, I can only speak for my fleet and the experiences that we have had. And thus, I do believe that our Sqn bosses are more than capable of making an educated and balanced decision on whether we need to do this or not, concurrent with aviation medical advice. We always have a Flt Cdr auth in theatre, Execs and the bosses are out here regularly and these guys are able to make an informed decision.


The greater impact for me is yet another few days away from my children, friends and family.

[TheWizard]

Although the RSOI package is far from ideal for some with a 'one size fits all' policy, don't forget some of the reason for it is so that those that 'don't' get a feeling and empathy for the experience likely to be faced of those that 'do' (that is not meant in any way derogatory to either group).

Anyway, back to decompression......

[Geehovah]

I hadn't considered this. With all the stressful things I did during my service I'd best find a shrink............................................

I have to say, being serious, this should be for operational commanders to decide if his or her staff need decompresison on the way home. Or am I missing something?

[Yozzer]

The few hours between getting off a C17 and getting onto a B757 caused me more stress than an entire Op Tour! I learnt all about sh*t locations previously never heard of before, and to add insult to injury, it p*ssed down.
Decomp:
Never in the field of human conflict have so many been so depressed for the benefit of so few.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/TPC/fun-pics001/201-300/068b.jpg
Now we are talking!!!!! :ok:

Note: Total respect to the civvy hosties on the 757 who let everbody sleep wherever they wanted to whilst they tip toed around them. Probably totally illegal but very pragmatic and well appreciated.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I hadn't considered this. With all the stressful things I did during my service I'd best find a shrink............................................

I have to say, being serious, this should be for operational commanders to decide if his or her staff need decompresison on the way home. Or am I missing something?

Sadly the point you are missing, although based on previous posts I seriously doubt you have, is that Sqn Cdrs and in fact even Station Cdrs have Fu@k all say in matters of this kind.

There is no Purple and there is no jointery it's the Army way or the high way, always has been and always will be :(

[VinRouge]

The sad thing is, without the bullsh*t, people would be willing to stick round a lot longer.

Its no secret the airline industry is about to go into overdrive recruitment, all these decisions do is further drive us towards the door. Overenthusiastic JPA auditors and cr*p triv from the army do little other than to wake people up to the fact that a life in the services is not worth the hassle. This isnt about not being willing to do "the job", far from it, its quite frankly the t0ssers that get in the way of us doing the job thats the problem.

I for one am partway through my licenses. What was supposed to be a bargaining chip with the poster is rapidly becoming a golden ticket out of the madhouse. I very much doubt I would accept the inevitable FRI when it comes in around 3 years' time. Life is quite simply too short.

[heights good]

"Life is quite simply too short."

It is the longest thing you will ever do :)

HG

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

If decompression means to you (and me and Beagle) a very rapid descent from 50K or so, in a fiendish chamber at N Luffenham, then you may care to read this http://www.kcl.ac.uk/kcmhr/information/publications/articles/screening/2008decompression.pdf

Having waded through the doctor/physco babble I'm not sure that everyone would benefit from it. Consequently I agree with the sentiments that not everyone should do it and (despite whatever the regulations state - they can be changed) the final decision should go to the individuals CO.

[VinRouge]

From the above:

Where decompression can fit seamlessly
with the life of a unit, it may well indeed convey some benefits.
Where it is imposed for little purpose, it may do the opposite.

Kind of settles the argument really doesnt it? :ugh:

[Easy Street]

For "one size fits all" read "one size fits nobody". The empathy argument is BS. Those that deploy once in a career, or at most once every 2.5 years should show some empathy with those who deploy every 8 months. It's high time the RAF insisted that everyone deploying through Bastion gets a mandatory 1-week training session in servicing Chinook and C-17s, "just in case" they had to help out on a turn-round. "Just in case" appears to be the guiding principle behind all the other crap taught on PDT and RSOI.

[Melchett01]

For "one size fits all" read "one size fits nobody".

Hear hear. There are undeniably individuals who would benefit from decompression and it is vital that it is there as an option amongst the whole PTSD / counselling / TRIM / duty of care piece. However, the way it is dealt with is in typical army lowest common denominator fashion which quite frankly probably creates more stress as people are kept away from their families and bosses have to put up with a regular ear bashing from their guys who really are fine and would rather go home.

I was on the unfortunate end of the whole lowest common denominator policy a couple of years ago when I was a roving Liaison Officer bouncing around the CAOC, TELIC and HERRICK. Despite the fact that I wasn't going home, simply from one op location to another, on almost every occasion I had to go through the whole padre de-brief & Suzy Perry video - just in case / 'because it says we can't let you on the flight out of country unless you do it sir'. Frankly it was madness, and it only served to increase my stress levels by dangling the whole idea of going home in front of me on an almost weekly basis when home and family were actually months away.

One size does not fit all. Joint means joint, not the same. All Services have their own requirements specific to their roles and jobs and that really should be taken into account rather than the blunt instrument approach we have in place at the moment.

[Unchecked]

Easy Street

Was going to post something very similar, but you've saved me the bother.

Spot on.

[Pontius Navigator]

ROG, interesting link.

the contrast between operational
and domestic conditions, and for the management of expectationsconcerning return to base

We see plenty of contemporary evidence from films that management of expectations was indeed a major factor in WW2. There were two instances in The Cruel Sea with the stoker returning to find his house destroyed or the officer that his wife was playing the field.

In neither case however would normalisation have worked.

PS

an in-depth study of U.K. regular British
Army service personnel deployed to Iraq in 2004/2005.14 In
that sample, the majority of regular soldiers considered normalization
(then termed decompression) to be a waste of their
time.

a process by which personnel who deploy together unwind together. formal decompression perhaps being reserved only for
troops who have experienced intense fighting or who are
likely to have little opportunity to mix informally with peers
on their return to their base locations.
Decompression can only serve a useful function if it is
targeted appropriately

Pretty clearly decompression should only be offered to formed units and then where the unit meets the criteria above.

we believe that the use of decompression should remain
a matter for discretion

So someone hasn't done his homework or believes that things are different now.

[BEagle]

Interesting link indeed:

Frequent claims have been made for the effectiveness of decompression, although this is without much in the way of supporting evidence to date. But should post-deployment decompression now become mandatory? Both Australia and the United Kingdom have, perhaps, made it clear that this would be a bridge too far at this stage.

The Australian Government recently declined the opportunity to implement mandatory decompression, arguing that: “ADF [Australian Defence Force] personnel returning from operational deployments are best managed with a degree of flexibility that allows commanders to make decisions based on the best interests of their subordinates. The nature of the deployment should drive the need for any period of decompression.”

Similarly, current U.K. policy on the use of decompression acknowledges the fact that “mandated decompression could be unhelpful if personnel are not allowed to return immediately to their families (and) mandating (the use of decompression) could therefore be detrimental to morale.”

(My bold text for emphasis).
....a degree of flexibility that allows commanders to make decisions based on the best interests of their subordinates.

:hmm:

[Geehovah]

Sadly the point you are missing, although based on previous posts I seriously doubt you have, is that Sqn Cdrs and in fact even Station Cdrs have Fu@k all say in matters of this kind.

There is no Purple and there is no jointery it's the Army way or the high way, always has been and always will be :(

I know well that Commanders don't have a say in it. I meant that this is what operational commanders should have a say in

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I knew you knew, so to speak :ok:

[Mr C Hinecap]

P_N

Army service personnel deployed to Iraq in 2004/2005

Given that was probably their first deployment in anger and decompression was new, I wonder how many of those personnel have seen active tours every 2 years since and whether they have changed their views?

[wokkamate]

Sorry, but enforced 'decompresion' makes my blood boil and = more stress! As ever, our lords and masters have to be seen to be taking care of our mental needs but all they do is cover their own backs and add to the time away we face from our families and friends. For those of us who deploy (on average - sometimes more) 3 times per 2 years, decompression is a waste of time.

Make it a choice, make it something more meaningful. I don't have any answers, I don't have any alternative solutions, all I know is it causes me, and those I have discussed it with, more stress.

Rant over with apologies for the lack of constructive comment. ;)

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Mr C,

Not sure if you have ever deployed but if you have do you think you would have gotten any benefit from decompression prior to going home :confused:

[3 bladed beast]

I'm very glad I started this thread, as on the whole it's very refreshing to see the majority think along the same lines.

'Luckily' i will be doing Decom towards the end of May, and I will gladly give details. I truly hope it's two days of relaxing, unwinding, beach time and some beer.

My major stress is where I'm going to get Euros from to pay for said lager and did I pack my swim shorts???

Back to topic; so far the most stressful thing has been the slightly thinner than usual mattress, and sometimes the showers are luke warm.

The Det in Kandahar ( again, I speak for myself and the people I work with) is relatively comfortable with Wifi, quilts, coffee shops, Timmy Hortons and in all the years I've done, I have yet to witness anything that would come close to me needing decompression.

Once again, a onesizefitsall doesn't work, CAM are on side and it's just an example of high up Army doing a coverall policy, which doesn't meet the needs of personnel.

I'm not speaking as an individual, but for years worth of Dets and hundreds of guys on them.

[Yozzer]

I know of many servicemen in the Army & RAF who consider an Op tour to be decompression!! .....from the admin trivia, secondary duties, PDT, etc etc of being back 'home'. I met an Army guy promoted and posted to a Trg Unit who is in dispair at having to go home every night to see Eastenders, Coronation Street, Emmerdale and all the other crap that wives and kids choose to waste their lives with. Kids armed with X-Box who look at dad and say "You still here". .....and the only one you get any common sense out of; ...is the dog!

[Whenurhappy]

Yozzer - this is certainly the case in a number of RAF Force Elements that were subject to a capability health check conducted about 2 years ago. Over 300 officers and airmen were interviewed and many looked forward to going on ops - no bullsh!t secondary duties, correct spares and manning levels, doing the job 'for real', no pressure from CINC Home, chance to exerccise leadership away from the elf and safety straighjacket etc etc...

[Mr C Hinecap]

Seldom - yes and yes. I have deployed and I would have appreciated the transition from high tempo ops to UK between postings. I was antsy as hell for a couple of weeks - just dumped from 18+ hr days for 6 months into nothing where nobody around me understood what I was gibbering on about. Something in between would have helped.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr CH, may be. I had that and so did Miss PN. The trouble is that the people you decompress with aren't concerned with your decompression gibberish as they will either be dumb and glum or on motor mouth too.

It is your nearest or dearest that will receive your wisdom delivered at 19 words to the dozen with cryptic acronyms and a certain incoherence.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Mr C,

Somehow I thought that might be your answer.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I'm sad enough to have looked this up now.

I commend anyone who questions their need to decompress to look up LFSO 3209 on the intranet. In particular, they should refer to Annex A and points 7 to 9. It provides the references your CoC would need to present the case up the chain. So - there is an established route to staff it up if you want to. I hope that helps someone.

[Pontius Navigator]

Here is the link to the leaflet.

Leaflet 32 - Stress at work (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/76674572/Leaflet-32---Stress-at-work)

The clues are in the title.

BFG - British Forces Germany
LFSO - Land Forces Standing Orders

Time for the blues to stand aside perhaps?

When I was in a green dominated civil service organisation, whenever anyone directed me to LFSO I would refer them to the fact that we were not in LAND and if and orders were relevant they were AIR and if they wished me to abide by the content of a LAND document then they should re-issue it with their own imprimatur.

[Mr C Hinecap]

P_N - no it isn't.

I specifically said the Intranet, not the internet. I am referring to a Restricted document and you are referring to something else. :rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr CH, I concede:

http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/linkedfilesANOpen/armysafety/20101125_2010_comdguide.pdf

Refers to LFSO 3209 so I believe the links are both relevant if not exactly your LFSO. And I did not Intranet but what with the leaks and FOI who knows what you will find in open source.

[Nomorefreetime]

If you do a 5, 6,8 week det and have to decompress, why doesn't your replacement come out 2 days earlier and you decompress then go home as planned.

Where do I find on JPA the Trade Union Membership form, Sorry I forgot, I'm British Mil and I do what I'm told to do, whether I agree with it or not.

P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt

[Mr C Hinecap]

relevant

4 paragraphs referring to POSM instead of the authoratitive 25 page document that also details who is responsible for what and how to staff the opting out of decompression? Google is not your friend at this time.

why doesn't your replacement come out 2 days earlier and you decompress then go home as planned.

Decompression must be inclusive of tour length - so they should. :ok:

[Climebear]

An interesting LFSO.

The name would imply that the SO applied to the whole of LF - this would include the RAF SHF (as part of JHC) but would not (for instance) apply to 1RTR (AIR Command) or 1 RIFLES (NAVY Command (as part of 3 (Cdo) Bde)). However, the detail of the document only applies to the Army - though it's not clear if this is the whole Army or just the Army elements of Land Forces (my guess is that it is the former as I would imagine that CINC LF has full command over Army personnel in other commands the same way that CINC AIR has full command of RAF personnel in NC, LF, PJHQ etc).

There is nothing in this document that would apply it to, say, a Tornado or RAF Regt squadron as they are neither part of the Army nor part of Land Forces. Furthermore, HERRICK is not a LF op. It is a Joint Op under CJO to which NC, LF, and AIR provide capabilities and personnel.

So if there is a joint policy, it isn't the LFSO. It should be issued by PJHQ (commanded by an RAF officer) who are responisble for deploying, sustaining and recovering the UK Forces deployed under Op HERRICK. The LFSO refers to a PJHQ FRAGO on decompression.

If then, it is a PJHQ policy it would appear to be unfiar to blame the implementation on the Army when it has been directed by an organisation commanded by an air marshal.

[VinRouge]

P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt

Get some time in.

[StopStart]

P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt

Why so few days away? Just joined or excused boots?

As for doing what I'm told, well yes indeed no-one here is suggesting we go on strike over it merely that it is a bollocks plan introduced sweepingly by those who are hard of thinking. Still, we need more folk like you - folk who are quite prepared to charge stark-naked at Jerry without asking any difficult questions of the h'officers.

Pip pip.

[unclenelli]

I've only ever decompressed once and I view it as a complete waste of time/energy/effort (as it currently stands)........

I woke up at 4am and proceeded to complete a full days work 6am-6pm, then I ate, and packed my kit, picked up at 7.30pm and taken to the air terminal.
THEN THE "PROCESSING" STARTS....
I sat around for 2 hours until my flight from Basrah to Kuwait
I sat around for 3 hours in a brightly lit tent (with an open door for the smokers......and more annoyingly mosquitoes!!!!!)
I board my flight to Akrotiri and arrive at 4am
We are bussed to Camp Radio Sonde were we are greeted by several JOLLY pongo's who brief us on our stay:
H&S, Programme, etc "...and yuo'll all have to stay around until 7am when the boss will get here and brief you!", "complusary Tunnel Beach attendance", "if you want to do watersports, then you'll have to pass an ARMY swim test"


Sorry, but NO! - I've been awake for over 24hrs!!! - It's no wonder that some poor squaddie was killed by a speedboat only a few months later.

I went to bed with the intention of getting up at about 2pm to attend the beach (get my beach tick) and not end up like the blokes in the DVD/Powerpoint presentation we were given in Basrah (of a bloke asleep on the beach with a tanline/sunburn line creeping up his back!)
When I awoke, it was too windy for watersports, so everyone had come back from the beach!
We had a BBQ, some cypriot tried to flog us suits, then a comedy show from the same guys I had seen in Bastion 2 years earlier (with the same jokes!)
Next morning, bussed back to Akrotiri and flew home.


As I said, it's a waste of time as it stands - It's either 24hrs too long, or 24hrs too short.
Give us a day to rest/sleep/relax before dropping "compulsary" events on us!

[GipsyMagpie]

My experience of decomp was entirely negative. I tagged along with another unit that I'd never met and we were stuck at Radiosonde with no option of the beach due to bad weather. The showers were cold, the beds were crap and entertainment lacklustre. And the most annoying thing of all was the beer scam. Yes a dirty underhand scam. You paid 5 euro for 2 beer tokens (oh yes, euros that I hadn't seen or been able to get hold of for months - genius!). Then you could exchange your token, one at a time for an open can of beer. When finished you exchanged your empty can for another one. But if you didn't want the other can (due to manic depression on being stuck at Radiosonde) then you lost your money....

....and some scammer kept either your money or your beer. Nice gig if you can get it.

Waste of time for anyone who has family/a life at home.

Whinge over.

[Easy Street]

Any RAF guys in a position to try out the "LFSOs don't apply to anyone except LAND forces" line, please post the results on here.... I think I will work on it for the next time my unit deploys!

[3 bladed beast]

Right!! Decompression complete and I can assure you all that it is an UTTER waste of time for guys who are behind the wire and frequently on short dets.

The food is substantially worse than Kandahar, let alone Bastion and other bases! On arrival in Cyprus, you are 'not allowed' the fresh fruit and juices as they are pay as you dine.

Next comes the herding on and off the buses to the beach, where you have to spend 6 hours before the next bus ride to Camp Blood hound, where once again the food is really quite poor.

The comedy show is reasonable, however the NON air conditioned 40 man rooms are far from ideal.

The worst part is being spoken down to by a padre and a mental health 'expert' who read off his briefing sheet. To a man, we all felt 5 years old and completely patronised.

The staff are extremely friendly and do their best dressed in 'Butlins' polo shirts. However, this counts as an OOA for them ( 4 month det) and I wonder how many of them have actually been on an operational tour in Afgan? The ones I spoke to certainly had not.

The biggest point for me was that Marines who had been out for 2 1/2 months were going home on R and R and apparently, even with their horrendous recent experiences, were ok to go straight there. Yet, someone who has lived in 'comfort' for 5 weeks, good bed, good food, wifi, phone calls, no threat and behind the wire has to decom??!!!

All in all, this is another ass covering exercise that is costing an absolute fortune and more importantly, reducing our operational effectiveness and turn around time.