How was your "Blustery" day?????

[Captain Numpty]

Just been watching the 18.00hrs BBC News, which showed one of MOL's 737-200's all over the place on final into Leeds Bradford. It then showed a corporate almost losing it - "Wing down" big time.....with the commentator saying "And this private Jet nearly didn't make it"......

Regardless of the latter, I admire the skill of those involved......for I wouldn't have fancied it!

Suffice to say, what conditions have you encountered today?????

C.N.

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: Captain Numpty ]</p>

[Wedge]

Just saw the corporate jet at the end of the Six O'Clock news......that was very close, the left hand wing appears to touch the runway.

[ejector seat]

Saw some interesting go-arounds and landings at LCY yesterday, in very gusty winds. I was glad to be on the ground...

[Evo7]

It was a bit windy out - the 19018G30KT TAF for EGHI seems a bit of an underestimate from where I'm sitting...

[EGGW]

Highly entertaining landing at EGGW, wind all over the shop, gusts up to 45kts. Funny though, managed to grease it on in the right place :)

[Bigpants]

A Hard day at the office and my underwear resembles the touchdown zone...covered in skid marks!

[daidalos]

EGGW . .That's the whole point, isn't it?. .I mean that's why we're paid and that's the satisfaction at the end of the day :-). .That's why we like flying <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Arkroyal]

I was lucky enough only to be involved as a passenger, returning to LHR on VS 020. A splendid job was done although I couldn't tell from my cattle stall which runway. On the way home, I noticed 22 in use. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[crewrest]

RW22?

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Yeah, RW 22. that's when you land on 23 with a little bit of drift from the right. Joking aside, having watched LHR spend at least half the day on 23, I have to take my hat off to those concerned. One minor comment; can the captain of the VSB Classic who had half a look at EGWU please make sure he is lined-up on the correct RW next time?

[Deadleg]

BA CitiExpress-yes must count the gust!. .Not flying today was on Monday though-gusting 60 kt straight down the strip in NCL. Any worse today?

[U R NumberOne]

My head's still spinning from spending the day fitting fixed wings going downwind at 400kts groundspeed in with helis on the ILS at 60kts G/S.

The 3000' wind of 220/82 largely accounted for my lousy closing headings <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[malanda]

Regarding the wing-down at LBA, they had some more on the local news. They interviewed the pilot but it wasn't very enlightening as he didn't seem to have a very good grasp of English. However he did say the plane had "lost some paint" but was still airworthy.

[Data Dad]

No 1, should have been doing it on Monday - 3000ft wind was 250 @ 105! Whats a closing heading? Turn right and the ILS is over there... sorreee, behind you :) :) :)

[Electric Sky]

Fairly chaotic today. DUB was at a standstill this morning and with LHR using RWY23 this afternoon ATC slot delays inbound were up to 5 hours!! Not what the chaps at Swanwick needed .. but well done to all concerned.

ES <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Arkroyal]

Err... Well last time I used it it was 22! <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Too long away on holiday, but fighting the car along the M40 was bad enough. Hats off to all concerned.

[Nigel PAX]

Well it was a new experience for me as a passenger to land on runway 23 at LHR (in hundreds of flights). Not sure it was worth the three hour delay, though, but got a taste of the impressive reverse thrust on a 737NG. Stopped well before getting to the southern runway.

[purple haze]

no wonder,

i was in southall today, and some amazing sights of a/c coming into land in some very strong winds.

wht was rwy 23 used? and how would that make a difference?

cheers

[Rollingthunder]

I'm inbound LHR on the 4th around 11:20 local.. .Please clean this stuff up.. .Who is the PPRuNe wind god?

[eyeinthesky]

Purple Haze:

Runway 23 was used because it was more into wind, and if they had stayed on 27 they would have had a lot of go arounds or diversions because of the crosswind being out of limits.

The problem with using 23 is that first of all it takes 4 hours or so to get it ready. This is mainly because it is so seldom used that the SW end of it and the area nearby is used for parking aircraft most of the time. These need to be moved and all obstructions checked before the runway can be used. The main effect however is upon the movement rate of the airport. Whereas when 27R/27L are in use they are independent of each other with regard to departures and arrivale (unless there is a go-around!), when 23 is in use it crosses both 27R and 27L. This means that the departures from 27 have to be timed to be clear of any 23 landers or go arounds. This vastly reduces the movement rate and delays build up. In addition there is no ILS to runway 23, so the aircraft have to be vectored down the approach by SRA. This increases controller workload considerably. This workload is also governed by the height of the cloudbase. The higher it is the sooner the aircraft go visual and can be handed over to tower.

[Richard Spandit]

Flew at EGFF yesterday. Watching the FMC as the Captain landed, registered 36 knots across at 50'.

Good landing, though... b*stard...

B757

[Aerostar6]

Anybody know how high that tower is on the approach to 23 at LHR? Haven't done an approach to 23 in ten years of ops at LHR and was rather impressed at how close it was. Nice of them to paint an arrow with 'LH' on it so that errant 747s know which way to point.

[Duke of Burgundy]

It`s just over 300ft high and is a gas holder at Southall. Did you notice the other arrow pointing to the right with the letters "NO" painted alongside? That arrow indicates the way to RAF Northolt`s runway 25.

The history behind those arrows is quite interesting.

Sometime in the 1960s, a Pan Am Boeing 707 whilst on the approach to Heathrow`s runway 23 left as it was then, became visual with the wrong runway and landed at Northolt. All the seats had to be removed in order for it to fly out again as Northolt`s runway is only about 1600 metres in length.

The arrows were painted on the gas holder in order to help prevent any subsequent confusion.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

The unfortunate PanAm captain responsible flew home as a passenger and I think he was subsequently sacked.

[flying dutchman]

syy 01 Feb 1730 220/45 G 60KTS TSRA RWY 18 CO-pilot did good job getting us down. Today only gusting 45kts with TS. upper wind F195 237T/150kts. Very bumpy returning to EDI. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> :)

[152]

Having a good position from my flat in cranford, i was very impressed with the approaches into LHR's rwy 23. Looks tough, good job guys.. .But a few of you were giving reasons for using rwy23 ie crosswind maximums. 23 was in use all afternoon and evening, but at around 1830 I saw a Cathay Pacific on approach to 27L, it went around so I assumed he had got it wrong or something, but then a few mins later he approached again and landed, whilst 23 was still in use. All I am saying is he must have had quite an approach and landing dont you think? The winds were still strong which is why 23 was still in use. Anyone know why he would do this, I mean its not really up to the pilot were he wants to land is it. Even if it was a cargo plane. (I couldnt tell)(Assuming)

[Plane*jane]

Well I was flying Jetstream into EGCC 190/22G35kts as usual Friday morning and the fun and games started as we intercepted the glideslope for R24R, very blustery including a nasty blast of windshear at 4 nm, and wind direction all over the place. Nice guys behind us (think it was bmi) kindly informed the tower that they registered 200/70kts probably at 2000ft. Not surprised! Nice landing, but then we're used to handflying in tricky situations, but yes it is loads of fun. Pax were quite pleased (captain too I think!!) I got us all down pretty well. Didn't envy the guys later on in the day. MAN ATC was superb as usual, not easy at all vectoring and spacing with those sorts of winds in the TMA....they have such lovely calm (sexy!!) voices....makes my day

[White Knight]

All good clean fun. :) :)

3 landings into Gatwick during Thursday and Friday. 70 knots at 2000' and 210/29-42 on the ground with a bit of Lakers revenge thrown in for good measure.. .It was brought home to the pax how strong the wind was - hence the rollercoaster approach - when one woman disembarked the aircraft and got picked up and dumped by the wind about 5' from where she had been standing.

Aaahhh, the hazy memories of wind light and variable.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

152, well, actually it's entirely up to the crew where they land the aeroplane, considering that it's their bums that are strapped to it. If the Cathay crew felt happier on 27 then it's their choice.

[RAFAT]

Visited IOM twice - 200/45G59. On both occasions had to do an ILS to 26, circling to 21. Wind was only 1 knot less than the taxying limit of the aircraft (DHC8).

[Foreplane]

Went into EGLF Thursday and Friday.Friday worst, 210/26g47, not much across but the turbulence on short finals from the trees and hills in that direction is very unpleasent. Had to hand fly around the pattern as AP gave up at about 3000'. W/Shr reported, and as advertised about 25-30 kts lost and gained at about 750' agl very hairy alround.Made decent arrival (IMHO)to applause from pax, pure relief me thinks!

[152]

George etc.

I am not a pilot but have worked at the airport for many years and feel I have a good understanding of airport operations. . .I cannot believe that it is TOTALLY up to the pilots where they land, sure they can request a landing runway but it must ultimately be the controllers decision.. .Can anyone verify?

<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

152 absolutely NO. The ultimate decision is with the pilot. However, at very busy airports, such as Heathrow, it would be impractical to permit aircraft to use their chosen runway at all times... and there are noise rules, etc, forbidding the use of certain runways at certain times. With this in mind pilots will usually adopt standard procedures and use the runway which everyone else is using. However, in cases of emergency or for particular operational reasons pilots may request the use of a different runway. They will then be advised of any delay which may be incurred in answering their request and will have to explain themselves later. For example, recently at Heathrow a particular aircraft could not accept one of the runways because the resurfacing produced problems for that aircraft (now resolved)... Very restrictive noise rules meant occasional departures from the landing runway in the past and I have known a/c with very sick passengers request opposite direction landings. BUT please understand the pilot really IS the final arbiter.

[152]

Thanks Heathrow Director.

[bookworm]

Flew back as SLF from Newark on Friday night. I pity the poor crew who flew the outbound leg. Looks like they departed Heathrow in something like:

EGLL 011550Z 21028G50KT 180V250 9999 OVC025 13/08 Q1006 TEMPO BKN015=

and arrived to find Newark (landing 22L)

KEWR 020051Z 30025G41KT 10SM FEW150 08/M01 A2981=

Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire... Apparently there was a go-around on the first approach into EWR.

Anyway, well done and thanks!

(Has anybody else been unlucky enough to find 40+ kt crosswinds in two different continents in the same flight?)

[newswatcher]

At the risk of asking a silly question.....

would the pilot of the bizjet at Leeds have corrected the wing drop manually, in which case big respect and hats off, or would it have been automatic.

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: newswatcher ]</p>

[eyeinthesky]

Newswatcher: Unless it was an autoland (unlikely in the conditions! and I don't know whether these a/c have autoland anyway) it would be manual. In fact, if you look at the tape you will see the right aileron deflected fully up as he tries to pick up the left wing. He was very lucky, methinks. Recent events suggest they don't like touching the ground with a wingtip...

[newswatcher]

Thanks eye!

[Gaza]

Link to video of "that landing" at LBA on Friday.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1795000/video/_1796668_weather18_marston_vi.ram" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1795000/video/_1796668_weather18_marston_vi.ram</a>

<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[malanda]

Maybe this should be a new Questions topic, but it's reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask for ages :

Arkroyal said. .QUOTE]Err... Well last time I used it it was 22![ [/QUOTE]

and the report into the 1972 Staines crash (http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/formal/garpi/garpi.htm) says it took off from "28R".

So why did the LHR runways change? Were they relaid? Is it magnetic variation? Is it plate tectonics?

[Gaza]

It is due to the changes in magentic variation. Admiralty Charts (for sailing) will show something like "7 deg 45 min W (9 min E)". This means that magnetic North is "moving" 9 min East each year. This means that through time runways "move". Both runways at EDI changed a couple of years ago.

Edited because of stupid mistake pointed out by eyeinthesky!

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Gaza ]</p>

[eyeinthesky]

gaza: If it moved 9 DEGREES East per year we would have no end of fun repainting runway numbers every year! Do you not mean MINUTES?

[Gaza]

Doh!!!

<img src="redface.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

small em. They move the runways around to reduce wear. You should have been there the night they changed from 28 to 27 - the shifting gear they used was pretty jolly massive. At one stage it nearly packed up but luckily I had my Reliant Robin on hand to help with that last shove!!!

[Captain Numpty]

Yes.......and I hear they call you "Del Boy" LOL!

Anyway, thanks Chaps & Chapesses for all the responses to date. They have made very interesting, and entertaining reading.

All the best, and safe landings.

C.N.

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Captain Numpty ]</p>