Booster Seat Cushion

[zeddie]

Hi guys,

I have searched the forum and not found any threads of relevance that advise where I can buy this, so forgive me if i missed it.

I am a short student pilot (5'5 :O) learning in a Eurostar microlight. The rudder pedals are very difficult for me to reach. I have been searching for a booster cushion to both get me closer to the pedals and also to raise my height a little to see out comfortably.

I have only managed to find:
http://proviationshop.co.uk/shop/article_ASP-13-0032-NC.001/Noral-Premium-Cockpit-Seat-Cushion.html?shop_param=cid%3D638%26aid%3DASP-13-0032-NC.001%26 (http://proviationshop.co.uk/shop/article_ASP-13-0032-NC.001/Noral-Premium-Cockpit-Seat-Cushion.html?shop_param=cid%3D638%26aid%3DASP-13-0032-NC.001%26)

(apologies if i am not allowed to post a link up.. pls remove if thats the case)

Unfortunately they dont have UK stock any more so it seems I cant order this. Does anyone know where I can get something similar? Another student at my club had them custom made but i dont know where to go for that. I believe also that the material has to be a special kind and I cant just use a normal seat cushion as a booster.

If anyone has anything similar or can advise where I can buy one please let me know.

Many thanks

[WelshHopper]

Hi Zeddie,

No link sorry, but try asking at a local gliding club, I used to glide and there were always loads of booster cushions for the younger visitors. They may be able to give you a good lead as to where you can purchase something.

WelshHopper :ok:

[BackPacker]

I believe also that the material has to be a special kind and I cant just use a normal seat cushion as a booster.

I'm not sure but I believe if the booster seat does not become a permanent fixture to the aircraft, there are no specific regulations about flammability of materials. It's just a piece of luggage as far as the law is concerned.

Unless the booster seat is made of specific dangerous materials (explosives, gas canisters, fuel and such) of course. Then the rules with regards to the carriage of dangerous goods apply. But I have yet to see a booster seat made out of explosive material.:}

In any case, at my club we have a stack of regular car booster seats and a few cushions in various grades of thickness, just in case we've got children aboard. None of these are specifically approved for aircraft use and I don't think anybody thinks they should be.

I have been searching for a booster cushion to both get me closer to the pedals and also to raise my height a little to see out comfortably.

Having said this, you might find that a booster seat by itself doesn't work for you. You might also want to search for some pedal extensions. Typically a booster seat will *increase* the distance from your bum to the pedals instead of decreasing it. Those pedal extensions do exist for various aircraft types but you've got to be very careful in attaching them. This made for some chilling reading:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Zivko%20Aeronautics%20Inc%20Edge%20540,%20N540BW%2009-10.pdf

[cats_five]

If a cushion or cushions are the way to go, make sure they are made of Dynafoam or similar. It offers a lot of protection to your spine if you have a heavy landing - some foams absorb then bounce making things worse not better. And consider if a cushion behind your back will help, though of course you need to be able to get the stick / yoke right back.

[Whirlygig]

5'5" is not that short across the spectrum of all aviators/aviatrices!

I'm 5'4" and use a bog standard car back rest cushion to push me forward enough to reach the pedals. You might want one that is quite deep. This might even be sufficient as it will force you to sit more upright and could enable you to see out better.

This is the one I got (http://www.gbdriver.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=44)

Just try one at a time.

Cheers

Whirls

[zeddie]

Thanks for the reply so far guys.

I have spoken with london gliding club just now, which is near where I live but they said they just use standard car seat cushions and dont have any spare.

BackPacker, i was not aware that we can use cushions of any material (apart from explosive material lol) so I will check that with my instructor. If that is the case then my search is a lot easier as I can probably just use a sofa or car booster seat cushion. Also i dont think the rudder pedal extenders are available for the eurostar according to my instructor. The cushion I have used for the last few lessons has been great and worked a treat.. but as i mentioned the owner has now left the club and taken it with him.

Cats_five, yes dynafoam is the material i was quoted by my instructor. i found a site that actually makes them but they have 1 month turnaround and need precise seat measurements. I really need one by saturday for my next lesson so its quite urgent!

Whirlygig.. that looks good, althought it doesnt support the entire back, and I might need 2 since I need one to sit on as well haha. ;) However, if i am indeed allowed to use one of any material i may just get that one, since it has worked for you, and as you said.. it may also be good for my posture to help me see out better. thanks very much for the link.

Ideally im after a site or person whom I can just buy one from today, as i need one before sat!

thanks for your help

[Andy H]

I got Mrs Andy to knock one up from an old curtain with hard foam from the market down the road. Works a treat and csot about 25p.

[cats_five]

Some gliding clubs will supply Dynafoam and charge by the square whatever - suggest you ring round and ask. I simply asked at mine, but it's rather too far from where you live! You can't expect them to let you have any of the cushions kept at the launch point (or wherever), they are for the club gliders.

The alternative is to use Google and see who sells it. I imagine a sheet will be a lot cheaper than getting it cut exactly to size. It's easy to cut with a Stanley knife or similar.

[astir 8]

I would add that thick cushions made of soft squashy material must be avoided because of the risk of sinking backwards/downwards under high G loads, which can then cause a pilot to involuntarily pull back on the controls with extremely nasty effects.

Many gliding clubs use rigid insulation foam "spacers" for shorter pilots. These are fitted between the rigid seat structure and the normal (thin and preferably dynafoam) cushion.

I'd advise that you bear the point in mind during your search but I can't help more because I'm not familiar with your aircraft.

[Whirlygig]

Zeddie, may I suggest you just pop down to a large branch of a well-known car parts suppliers (the one with the orange and black logo!) and look at a few?

Cheers

Whirls

[zeddie]

Haha, you guys are too awesome and so helpful :D

I will indeed pop down to H******S after work and take a look. Just spoke to the club though, and they would really prefer if I got a proper dynafoam cushion for almost the exact reasons mentioned by astir 8.

However, if I cant get hold of that stuff before sat, then im clear to buy a standard cushion at my own risk :ok:

As i mentioned in my first post, I would buy the one on the link I posted in that pilot store, but there is no UK stock. So I may have little choice at short notice.

Cheers for all your replies.. problem solved (almost)

[FlyingFinancier]

This may not be available quickly enough to help Zeddie, but I looked into cushion material a little while ago and it seems that Confor foam is a very strong contender relative to Dynafoam and similar products in terms of comfort and energy dissipation in the event of a less-than-ideal landing.

[B4aeros]

You can get Dynafoam from AFE Online (http://www.afeonline.com/shop/index.php?cPath=36_134) in Oxford & Proviation (http://proviationshop.co.uk/shop/catalog/details?shop_param=) up the road from you in Dunstable.

Carpet adhesive in a spray can is perfect for gluing the bits together; use an old breadknife to carve it into a suitable shape. When you get time, ask a local seamstress to make a nice cover for it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are some really good reasons why you want to use dynafoam, or something very similar - a conformal foam in other words.


Research has shown that a soft seat cushion, in a hard landing, will result in your still travelling downwards through the seat cushion, whilst the aircraft is bouncing upwards. The result can be a shock to the spine as much as 80% greater than that if you'd been sat on a bare unpadded seat.

The chap, incidentally,who worked all this out and is something of a hero in the cleverer bits of the gliding and light aeroplane communities. He is a lifelong glider pilot and retired GP who has spent the last 20 years or so researching glider safety - because he could. He's published a lot of papers on this, mostly in Technical Soaring, which is published by OSTIV - fellow by the name of Dr. Tony Segal, who lives in Uxbridge.


But, in a nutshell, use dynafoam, and you can buy it from AFE. Do not use soft foams such as you might have in your sofa, because of the risk of injury in a heavy landing.

It is also best to ensure that you use flame retardant foam (which dynafoam is) and covering material (read the label!).

G

[Pitts2112]

Anything wrong with a couple of throw pillows off the sofa? That's what I did in my early training days in the C152, one under, one behind. Worked a treat. In fact, the flying school had a pile of them for just that use, all in manly colors and fabrics, of course. No lacey or flowery ones, to be sure.

[zeddie]

Pitts2112, I wish it was that easy man.. i have plenty of normal cushions lying around in the living room! However, my club prefers I use something made of fireproof material and something non spongy to support my back and legs for the reasons Genghis has mentioned very clearly in his post... and to be honest, the reasons make sense. I would rather be safe and protect my back.

Based on all the advice received and nothing being available at halfords which fits the bill, I have ordered dynafoam from proaviation so will cut out my own. They can deliver it very quickly which is a bonus.

Hopefully ill find a nice seamstress to make me a pretty cover for it :p

cheers for all the helpful posts.. now i know this "short" problem isnt so uncommon! :O

*problem solved!*

[WelshHopper]

Based on all the advice received and nothing being available at halfords which fits the bill, I have ordered dynafoam from proaviation so will cut out my own. They can deliver it very quickly which is a bonus.


Now there has to be a business chance there for someone with a sewing machine, and a friend who does websites :ok:

[patowalker]

Just spoke to the club though, and they would really prefer if I got a proper dynafoam cushion for almost the exact reasons mentioned by astir 8.



Ask your instructor if the Eurostar has dynafoam seats and when he admits it doesn't, ask why your cushion needs to be dynafoam.

The original seat will meet the requirements and your cushion will offer extra protection.

That said, dynafoam would be safer.

It is not normally used in microlights, because it is too heavy, especially in aircraft that are anodized, instead of painted, to keep within the max ZFW.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are quite a number of microlights that use dynafoam.

The Eurostar has very little seat cushion iirc, just minimal padding on a solid seat.

G

[patowalker]

The seats in my Eurostar are not heavy enough to be dynafoam or temperfoam.

I had temperfoam installed as an option on my Zenair and the feel and weight was quite different.

[SNS3Guppy]

I'm a short guy. I've used seat cushions in several airplanes, though usually behind me, rather than under me. In one airplane, I had to unbolt the seat tracks and move them forward one bolt hole (A PB4Y-2, which is a version of the B-24), and use a cushion behind my back. I needed a lot of rudder, full throw, and couldn't get it without getting farther forward on the pedals.

At the time, and in other aircraft subsequent, fires were always a concern; I was also required to wear nomex, gloves, overlapping leather boots, helmet, etc. The seat wasn't really an issue, however, and the cushions never raised any concerns. The cushions were bought at the local department store, and were dense pads used for outdoor seats. I sewed several together to get the right thickness and spacing.

If you absolutely need a something which doesn't sustain flame, you might try an upholstery shop that does work for aircraft interiors. You can get fabric that's already been flame-tested, and a foam that doesn't sustain a burn.

If you're wearing flammable clothing, then your seat cushion isn't really the concern you might think it is; forget the cushion; you're already a candle.

[tggzzz]

Based on all the advice received and nothing being available at halfords which fits the bill, I have ordered dynafoam from proaviation so will cut out my own. They can deliver it very quickly which is a bonus.

Hopefully ill find a nice seamstress to make me a pretty cover for it :pVery sensible to get dynafoam to sit on. The foam behind you isn't so critical - the major point is that it must be more-or-less incompressible so you don't have a "feet off rudder pedals" experience.

You don't actually need a cover for it - so for a week or so you can just carve it and sit on it. (However, it is a bit brittle and over time bits will rub off and it will get dirty)

Covers are easy to make if you aren't worried about appearance. Get a bit of suitable cloth, wrap the dynafoam as if it was a present, stick the cloth to itself using "wonderweb" nylon webbing that melts under a hot iron, and do a few quick-and-dirty tack stitches along the edges.

[Mechta]

You might like to look at a type of booster seat which is a bag of beads from which you evacuate the air to keep it in shape.

Mechta Senior worked on these at RAE Farnborough in the late 1960s, for, if I recall correctly, 'V' bomber applications. The objective was a conformal cushion which would be rigid enough to be used on an ejection seat.

A quick google showed the current application of these is for wheelchairs.

http://dlfdata2010.dlf.org.uk/product.php?product_id=0006734&groupid=1140

and

0zEuH9iUwOA

I would endorse everyone else's comments about using a layer of Dynafoam as well. Just one thing with the stuff is that you really want it in an outer covering as it goes crumbly quite quickly, maybe due to ultra violet light exposure.