HIT BIRDS... Would you return?

[Mr Cessna]

Jumped into one of the clubs trusty 172s and was lined up on the runway ready for departure. After going through the vital actions and ''what ifs'' with my instructor, I opened the throttle and we lifted off at the usual 55 knots and began our climb out. At about 300ft just after flap retraction I noticed serveral birds crossing our path from left to right. Before I could mutter a word, my instructor had allready pushed down hard on the yoke but it was too late! :mad:

Several expletives later we levelled off at 500ft to check for damage, and all we saw was a slight bit of blood on the wing and some feathers around the pitot tube, engine Ts & Ps were fine and our engine was producing normal power allthough my instructor chose to return to the airfield for an inspection which suprised me as all of our systems seemed to be working normally.

Thinking about it now my instuctor made the right decision but the engine was performing perfectly and there appeared to be no structual damage or instrumentation anomalies so why did he choose to return to the field. He is the sort of instructor who is never usually bothered by anything (allthough VERY proffesional) and has seen it all having been a pilot for the last 55 years and having more than 25,000 hours in his log including ATPL.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this and would you return to the field or continue the flight after a bird strike? :ok:

[DX Wombat]

Land as soon as possible, always and have the aircraft checked by an engineer before it is flown again. What may seem minor may prove to be lethal if no action is taken. Read this: G-DELS (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/dft_avsafety_pdf_500558.pdf) Although it is not an identical situation it makes very sobering reading.

[SNS3Guppy]

Bird strikes are usually not a problem, but you need to evaluate what you're seeing at the time, and act accordingly. Returning to land is never a bad idea (unless the place you're returning to is on fire or some other compelling reason to press on). Be conservative.

Before I could mutter a word, my instructor had allready pushed down hard on the yoke but it was too late!

Trying to outmaneuver a bird is usually the wrong choice. There's seldom time to overcome inertia and get the airplane turned away, but birds are very good at getting out of the way, given a chance.

Birds tend to tuck their wings and dive to get clear. Attempting to outdive the bird or to dive to avoid a bird is a great way to cause a bird strike. Don't try to outmaneuver the bird.

[172driver]

my instructor had allready pushed down hard on the yoke

Bad plan. Birds will usually dive out of the way - I see this on pretty much every flight I do. Trying to outdive or outfly them is simply stupid - they are much better at it than any of us here ever will be! Of course I wasn't there, but I'm reasonably certain that had you just motored on, nothing would have happened.

As for the landing - yes, would have done the same, especially in your situation with an airfield readily available.

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

Another data point: some years ago I had an airmiss with a buzzard at about 2500 feet north of Thruxton. I saw the buzzard approaching almost head-on at the same altitude about three or so seconds before we would hit; the buzzard rolled hard and flew under our PA28 with room to spare.

Buzzards are big...

PPD

[znww5]

"Hit birds... would you return"

Return every time - unless you are being shot at!

The bird debris near the pitot would be an immediate worry re: ASI accuracy and other vacuum instruments and the a/c needs a thorough check for damage which you can't see whilst airborne.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd have done as your instructor did. I don't need to stay airborne, and the aircraft is best inspected on the ground.

G

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I hit a Pluvver on take off once, I was fully into the roll and it stood its ground sadly, rotating at 50kts not an option, swerving, laughably not an option, braking not an option so i went straight through it.

I did a low level abbreviated circuit let everybody know, got on the ground and shut down.

Lucky i did some nice little dents a lot of blood but most importantly lots of FOD in the intake (PA-38). not sure how cool everything would have remained if i stayed airborne.

We have small flights of seagulls too from time to time and i never alter course, they have an amazing way of separating and getting out of the way.

And no the tommie did not smell like chicken for the next week... although several instructors teased me that it did.

[BackPacker]

which suprised me as all of our systems seemed to be working normally.

C172, as far as I know, doesn't have sensors to detect damage to things like wing, rudder and stabilizer leading edges. A dent at those places can seriously influence the aerodynamic properties of the aircraft. And there are all sorts of other things that bird strikes can do, but that not immediately apparent and cannot be seen on your engine instruments.

So yes, you will always return and have the whole aircraft checked over, unless there's an overwhelming reason not to (like being shot at, as mentioned above).

Also, any sort of damage to aerodynamic structures will lead to an increase of stall speed or at least a decrease of their effectiveness at low speeds. So you land with a bit more speed than usual, bleeding it off a few inches above the runway. So in case of a bird strike, a very short strip might not be the best choice.

[rkgpilot]

I'd turn back every time.

Look what happened to Hannes Arch 2009:

YouTube - Hannes Arch Bird Strike! Red Bull Air Race San Diego 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRkBNf8T9w)

Admittedly, he was probably going just a little faster than you were.....

He admits he was 'distracted' :)

[Sir George Cayley]

Mr Cessna,

Glad you're here to tell the tale. Birds have been killing pilots since the dawn of flying.

It would help us all to report this to the CAA using their online form. If damage occurred it should be MOR'd instead.

Sir George Cayley

[ShyTorque]

In my time I've suffered quite a number of birdstrikes and I always would land asap.

In UK any birdstrike is supposed to be notified to the CAA, not just ones causing damage to an aircraft.

As has been pointed out already, birds will usually get out of the way (although some will not). They do tend to "break" downwards rather than go up. Another reason not to try avoid them by "bunting"downwards (pun unintended) is because you expose the windscreen and your face to the bird. Best pull up if you can. Difficult in the climb, I know.

I once suffered a strike by an unknown but very large bird after midnight at 500 feet above the sea during a night casevac with the patient on board. After landing we saw that the outline of the bird was "painted" on the structure, it was over a metre in span. Thankfully it impacted above the windscreens and it had it's wings wrapped around the front of the aircraft. The only thing I saw of it was that the ground lights ahead were briefly obscured by it. It seemed to hit the only place on the aircraft where it couldn't do damage. If it had come through the windscreen or hit the pitch change rods I might not have been here to write about it.

[AdamFrisch]

Hit a duck on landing in a Lake LA-4 amphibian just before Christmas. They tried to outfly the Lake with obvious results. Aircraft was fine, but I felt terrible - I like ducks.

[A and C]

Quote:-The bird debris near the pitot would be an immediate worry re: ASI accuracy and other vacuum instruments and the a/c needs a thorough check for damage which you can't see whilst airborne.

Please can you tell me why a bird strike will effect the vacuum instruments ?

[ei-flyer]

Please can you tell me why a bird strike will effect the vacuum instruments ?

Bird hits pitot tube.

Pitot tube broken.

Vacuum instruments affected.

Or...

Dead birdie remains near pitot tube.

Air in vicinity of pitot tube disturbed.

Vacuum instruments affected.

:ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

Bird hits pitot tube.

Pitot tube broken.

Vacuum instruments affected.

You want to try that one again? Are you sure what's powered by the vacuum pump, and which instruments are on the pitot-static system? You seem a little confused about aircraft systems.

Dead birdie remains near pitot tube.

Air in vicinity of pitot tube disturbed.

Vacuum instruments affected.

Which vacuum instruments would those be? Explain more. I'm curious.

They tried to outfly the Lake with obvious results.

Not too obvious. It's really a toss-up as to which will win a race; the bird, or the Lake.

Strikes in the trailing edge by overtaking birds are not out of the question...:}

[IO540]

I would not fly onwards after an obvious bird strike.

There could be various damage not visible from the cockpit, and there could also be prop damage although apparently most birds do just pass through the prop in one piece.

The cowling or the heater air intakes could be blocked.

Also do not raise the landing gear because there could be "stuff" on it which is easier to clean off if it was not moved. The gear doors might also not close properly and could get mangled (hydraulics is very powerful).

Finally there is the risk of prop damage in which case if you read the engine mfg's requirements you will see that a shock load inspection is mandatory (if the prop is actually damaged beyond what can be dressed out conventionally with a file, rather than just paint scratched).

[Fuji Abound]

my instructor had allready pushed down hard on the yoke Bad plan. Birds will usually dive out of the way

I agree.

Birds will almost always dive away from the sun which is a natural response to predation.

Watch next time and you may be surprised on the accuracy of this analysis.

If you are going to take avoiding action pull up towards the sun assuming of course you have some margin between your air speed and your stall speed.

[znww5]

A&C
"Please can you tell me why a bird strike will effect the vacuum instruments?"

Brainfade! Meant to say its the pressure instruments (ASI, Alt and VSI) which would be compromised - still need to land though.

Thanks for pointing that out :ok:

[NigelOnDraft]

I am not saying "carry on regardless", but I am disagreeing with a "hard" Land ASAP for (every) Birdstrike.

In the RAF (trainers / FJ) it tended to be a Pan / Land ASAP / Low Speed Handling Check. However, in the airline world, it is pretty much "carry on regardless" in the absence of any definitive evidence of a need to land e.g. birdstrike on departure from EBB (and these are proper birds, not the UK midget variety), continue to LHR is personal experience.

As ever, it is a Captaincy risk assessment, taking into account the circumstances / evidence / judgement. GA / Piston types are less vulnerable, and sometime time spent assessing the problem, ensuring you land somewhere with a decent runway, plan the approach Low Speed check? might see continuing to destination a valid plan. Emergency handling needs to consider the "time" aspect, and rarely will a birdstrike be time critical - and if it is, it will be immediately apparent (engine stopped!)

Avoiding Bird Strikes - as above - use forward facing lights, do not dive under them - if you feel a need to do something, you are probably better off ducking yourself :ugh:

NoD

[RatherBeFlying]

Well I did pitch down once, but that was in a glider at thermal speed just over the stall; if I had pulled back the stick, I'd be going down anyway;)

And yes, I have seen a hawk fold his wings and go into a plunge from a bit above me. You can sneak up on birds occasionally in a glider; perhaps the hawk had his attention focused on a juicy squirrel.

[barne_as]

Exactly what your instructor did. Happened to me when I was with an instructor. I was fairly new PPL student but he took control and landed straight away to check for damage.
Rather be safe than sorry, as we couldnt see if there was any problem with the flaps which is where they hit

[AdamFrisch]

Not too obvious. It's really a toss-up as to which will win a race; the bird, or the Lake.

Strikes in the trailing edge by overtaking birds are not out of the question...

Now, now. Come to think of it, we did have trouble catching up to the ducks..;)

[SNS3Guppy]

Come to think of it, we did have trouble catching up to the ducks.

Probably Mallards. Those are some bad ducks.

[Pace]

I can remember making an approach late at night into an airfield where a friend was supposed to have put on the runway lights for us.
It was pitch black and at around 400 feet there was a loud bang on the windscreen of the twin.
He had not turned up so we diverted.On landing there was blood on a three inch diameter of the screen.
Don't think that burd strikes are confined to daylight!

I can understand landing if the strike happens on takeoff but do you return if you are 20 miles out or divert en route?

No you appraise the strike. Are there an vibrations? Any abnormal engine indications? Are there any control problems? How large was the impact and where?

I would not land just for a bird strike unless there were other reasons to do so.
Ok just after takeoff Ou might as well nip around and land but there are bird strikes and BIRD strikes.

Pace

[SNS3Guppy]

Two of my worst bird strikes occurred at night, both at the same time of night (about one in the morning), and both at 10,000'.

If I experience a bird strike, unless there's clear evidence of something wrong, I'm not returning to land. It's a good, safe, conservative decision, but not necessarily required. I've had bird strikes at the start of 11 hour journeys, and pressed on. Unless I have reason to believe that I have a problem, then I'm not going to get too worked up simply because I hit a bird.

If the controls are fluttering, or if there's a bird sticking through the window, that's another thing. A little blood and feathers, or some bird parts flying around in the cockpit (ala the bird that went through the air vent), not really a good reason to terminate the flight.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I had a mate turn back soon after take off on a ferry flight in a Seneca, the bird hit the HF wire and distorted what ever window it was running through, maybe the CV panel?

Said it was very interesting landing a slightly over weight plane at Dark o'clock in the morning. Luckily Christmass island is a big runway.

Bloody good pilot is Trav.