Renting in LAX area for trip to Las Vegas

[cello.ch]

Hi fellow pilots

I'm a Swiss pilot (130h) with a validated FFA PPL. In July this year I will spend a week in Los Angeles to visit a convention. I would like to arrive a week earlier and rent a plane to fly to Las Vegas (and maybe some places in the nearby area). I was searching this forum and found a couple of suggestions already, but some of them are a couple of years old. So my questions you might be able to answer are:

1) Is there a FBO in the LAX area (Van Nuys, Santa Monica) which is renting a Cirrus SR-20 or Piper Archer PA-28 (overnight rental 3-4 days)?

2) Which VFR route would you suggest from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in this time of the year

3) Is the preferred and easiest airport in Las Vegas Henderson (KHND)

Many thanks for your time and suggestions in advance.

Regards from Switzerland,
Marcel

[Duchess_Driver]

The other airfields that serve Vegas are North Las Vegas and, of course, McCarran. Last time I checked, McCarran still took VFR traffic.

Henderson is towards the southern end of Vegas and would probably be the best place to plan for. You can check the whole route using Skyvector.com or other such sites.

En Route (sight seeing wise...) SoCal probably has it spot on. There's not much to see. If you like airliners then Mojave or Victorville (both north of track) may be a place to stop for a de-fuel. If you want something scenic to see and a nice burger then Big Bear City is well worth a trip.

But again, as SoCal says, if it's July then be careful with your performance calcs - it does get very hot out there.

HTH

DD

[Mark 1]

Cal Air at Torrance have the SR20 at $210/hr block rate (last I knew).
They do transition training. I'm not sure about multi-day rental.

I can't add much to the comments on route or choice of field, but there are plenty of scenic side tours not far away.

Its a scorching 28 deg C here today in LA and a nice clear view of the mountains.

[172driver]

Justice Aviation in KSMO have a Cirrus, but you'll need 10 hours in it and some extra training. See here (http://www.justiceaviation.com/ouraircraft.php) for details. A PA28 will definitely be your easier option from a rental POV.

[martinprice]

Never looked at Big Bear before myself but SoCal App makes a fine point. You'd be looking at 10,000ft density altitudes in July. That'd be exciting in a PA28. Mind you, you can expect to see 5,000ft+ DAs even in the high desert places like Victorville so you need to be careful wherever you go.

[cello.ch]

First, thanks everyone for the immediate answers. It is very nice to see, that aviation forums all over the world are a nice place to hang out. Our Swiss forum flightforum.ch (only in German) is very helpful as well.

But coming back to all the suggestions:
I did my Cirrus SR-20 training in Loveland, Ft. Collins (KFNL) last October and logged around 16h with this plane now. So I will see if the guys from Justice Aviation in KSMO will lend it to me.
Big Bear sounds nice, but as everybody said, DA might be a problem. I'm travelling with a business partner, so we will be not bad on the weight. Still, I went to Aspen from Ft. Collins last year and even with the colder weather we had a very high DA and the SR-20 is not a rocket anymore there.

Mojave and Victorville sounds tempting, but the rest of the journey sounds rather boring. I did the trip last night in my Flight Sim. Not much to see once you are outside the L.A. area.

Would you rather suggest to fly to Las Vegas commercially and the rent a plane there. What would be the places to go from there. Grand Canyon of course and the Page? Would you have any tips for a 2-3 day tour from and back to L.V.? Where to rent in Las Vegas. I wrote an e-mail to a coule of FBO's and did not get any answers.

@Silvaire1: I enjoyed the area around Colorado already, your mountains are a lot higher than ours. Where did you fly in Switzerland?

Regards,
Marcel

[david viewing]

Of Las Vegas airports, Henderson is certainly the simplest to get into because you can approach from S without entering the class 'B' airspace. However it's a long way from the strip and the famous free shuttle is ancient history. They do have car rental on site though.

McCarran certainly accepts VFR traffic but 'handling' is compulsory and seems expensive, until you go to pay for the fuel! That was $7 per gallon in January and doubtless more now. Afterwards, the 'handling' seems cheap by comparison! Mc Carran is quite demanding for the VFR pilot but ATC are very patient.

North Las Vegas is very accomodating, but also bereft of a free shuttle in these leaner, meaner times. Reaching it means a transit of the class 'B' and you would definitely want a briefing on this prior to going there, but actually it's not that difficult. You can get to N las Vegas from the NW without entering the 'B' but it's a long way round. Be sure to prearrange car rental because the desk is not attended.

The advice about July and the temperature is very good and the solution is to fly early as others have said. Most places are open at 6am and it helps to stay close to European time anyway. After about 10:00 it gets very bumpy indeed. Don't expect to fly 4 up in a 172 out there: one passenger is enough. The Las Vegas airports are all around 2000' elevation so it's all about density altitude.

The Las Vegas 'B' can be intimidating and an alternative could be the Laughlin/Bullhead City airport in uncontrolled airspace and very scenic down by the river. They have free hotel shuttles. While there you can also visit Lake Havasu which is pleasant enough with a superb FBO - Desert Skies.

I dont really agree about the scenery - to a European the trip up there is highly scenic especially once you escape the murky LA visibility. I'd consider doing the trip in two early morning segments with a stopover in Victorville or Barstow (though niether place has anything to reccomend it) so that you arrive in the Las Vegas area feeling fresh.

I started my US flying career out of N Las Vegas with a lot less experience than you and still go back there whenever I can. I never grow tired of the amazing scenery and the relaxed, straight forward flying. Enjoy!

[grafity]

Hi Guys,

I have to go to Las Vegas in December and I was thinking of killing two birds with one stone and doing a bit of hour building. I will probably be flying into Los Angeles a week before I'm due in Vegas with the aim of doing some hour building.

About the only thing I can associate with this side of the world is a flight simulator I used to mess around with based on San Francisco so I was thinking I'd pay a visit up that way.
My plan is to rent an aircraft for 5 or 6 days fly up the coast towards San Francisco, then head inland towards Vegas and then head back to wards Los Angeles. Catch some of the sites like the Golden Gate and Grand Canyon etc.

I'm just looking for any must dos/don't dos for such a trip, any recommendations for 172/PA28 rental for 5 or 6 days and ~15hrs flying? I should be flying into LAX as far as I know at the moment, so in that general area, it doesn't have to be a G1000 but something well maintained that isn't going to konk out half way between San Fran and Vegas would be nice. :ok:

Thanks in advance, I know it's very vague but I've only really started thinking about it and realised how little I know about the area.

[Cusco]

Don't forget to drop into Furnace Creek airstrip in Death Valley and take a pic of minus 200ft on your altimeter.......

In fact an overnighter in the Inn at Furnace Creek is a worthwhile experience: the rattlesnake is good (tastes just like chicken:ooh:) and the accomodation is superb.

Seriously though: in the little hut at Furnace Creek strip (which is unmanned) is a free telephone: Call the Inn and they'll come and get you.

There is also the Ranch at Furnace Creek but haven't stayed there so can't comment

Cusco

[grafity]

Thanks Cusco it looks like a good stop over on the way to Vegas alright. :ok:

[172driver]

Great trip. One issue, though, could be crossing the Sierras in winter. Re rental, see some of the suggestions further up in this thread.

Do you hold an FAA license? If not, you'll need a 'based-on' one, search here, there are numerous threads discussing this.

If you've never flown in the US, and especially in the LA and SF airspace then you'll need a bit of training and a good checkout. Plan some time for that. Make sure you know how to operate the GPS unit(s) in the rental a/c and/or bring your own handheld with the Americas database loaded. Register on FltPlan.com Flight Planning & Flight Tracking. (http://fltplan.com/).

Happy flying!

[grafity]

I've a European license, so I'll have to arrange a piggyback FAA. I've had a quick look through some of the threads and I know a guy who's just went out to do some flying on the east coast so I guess I can get all the info off him on what needs to be done in that regard.

I actually hadn't realised just how high the Sierras were. All the talk of density altitudes had me thinking that the winter would be a great time to go, but I guess the lower temp means a lot more cloud.
Maybe 60-80 miles through a mountain range of that scale is asking too much of me and a C172. Might go around the south if I go to Vegas. Other places are catching my eye now though, Lake Tahoe looks like it's worth a trip.

Can I expect much blue skies in December around California?

The more I look at it, the more planning there'll be, :uhoh: but should make for a great trip alright. Thanks for the link by the way it looks like it could be very handy.

[18greens]

You must go and fly in the states. It's great fun and soooo easy. I landed at mccaren Vegas with 150 hours and it was great and very easy.

You must however be very aware ( and respectful) of density altitude. We went from the Vegas (baby) to canyon at 6500'. Landing was fine. On take off there was a board indicating a density altitude of 7,500' due to the temps. I thought no probs, there were two of us in a Cessna 172 xp. Climb rate 1500fpm at ground level, were in clover. I did wonder why canyon airstrip is longer then heathrow. Anyway I was ace, this was not going to be a problem. At 12 noon and 35deg we lined up ( you can guess where this is going). Half way down the runway (5000' gone) we hit 50kts. Not looking good. At 7000' we hit take off speed and climb at 100 fpm. We made (just)it but isn't it amazing what density altitude means!!!

[Mark 1]

Winter here still has more reliable VMC than British summers.
You don't need to cross the Sierras to get to Death valley from LA.
People regularly fly VFR to Tahoe and Mammoth for the skiing through the winter.

Weekends are usually easy to cross the China Lakes restricted areas with Joshua approach.
An alternative route from LA is up Owens valley north of Mojave and Inyokern and across Saline valley and down.

If you tell NorCal that you want to do a bay tour, they'll usually route you lowish along Silicon Valley and set you loose below the Class B from downtown SF with Alcatraz and the Golden Gate in front of you. Turn left and Half Moon Bay is a short hop away with no airspace in the way.

The LA FSDO is close to LAX on Nash St. Just get your paperwork in order, make your appointment and you'll walk out with a temporary airman's certificate.