Starting out in late 30's - advice please...

[Polar140403]

First post, be kind...:O
Have read quite a few posts regarding starting out in the aviation industry while in your teens or early twenties, not much on doing the same while in your thirties. Have a trade in a dead end industry and I've decided to follow my passion. Have flown to a solo standard (10 yrs ago) and then life got in the way as it tends to do so I'm basically starting from scratch. I'm living to the north of Brisbane and intend to continue my training at either Redcliffe or Caboolture. Any advice/help from those who may have travelled a similar road would be invaluable... difficult to get a clear picture of what my options are... does a clear picture exist!!? Cadetship not a realistic option with young family and financial commitments.

[scardycap]

Printer by trade and worked that for 20 years

Asked for the same advice as you are now and had a lot of well meaning people advising me against it as the age factor was against me. Either that or maybe end up in a turbo prop job.
Being very honest the road has been harder than I thought it would be, cost more money than I thought it would and has been emotional roller coaster.
Having said that I'm glad I did it.

Married with 3 kids under 10
Started my PPL at 33 and got CPL at 35.
Got instructors rating at 38 and did that for a couple of years, have the turbo prop job and just interviewed for a jet job. Don't know how I went but my age never came into the equation.
:ok:

[Polar140403]

Printer!! Same... newspapers, heatset... you now what I mean by dead-end job then :)
Thanks Scardy, this is what I need to hear.
I am definitely under no illusions about how difficult and financially draining this is going to be. Just don't want to spend 100k to have someone tell me I'm too old.
I intend to keep working(shifts) while training... CPL within 2 yrs... instruct at a school around my shift work if possible or go to instructing fulltime to build my hours. There is a plan... of sorts!

[scardycap]

Yeh very glad to be out of printing. Even If I stay where I am it's still better than where I was.
You will find that the age issue is bigger for you than anyone else. I know its probably stopped me enjoying the journey as much as I could have.

Anyway best of luck. As someone once said to me "don't let someone else build your world for you cause they will build it too small":ok:

[flyingpom]

I only started working towards my PPL/CPL a year or so ago. No matter what people may tell you prospects wise, I'm a believer that if you work hard enough towards your goals, you will find someway of making it work for you, no matter what the circumstances. The only frustrating thing for me relates to the fact I still have to squeeze in a 60hr a week job along with trying to work through my CPL exams and night rating. I'm quite jealous of those young ones who get to work towards their dreams full time.

Like you my plan is to get my CPL ( inc night rating ) and then an instructor rating. I'm probably one of the few ones not really interested in the airline route. I'd be happy with a part time instructing job.

Good luck, whatever direction you take.

P.S I thought about giving up my dream of a job in aviation a few years ago ( due to my age ) but unfortunately I could not stop the thought of flying commercially from eating away at the back of my head… I suppose it’s better to chase you dream and fail than never try and regret it.

[Case Sensitive]

Must be the ex printers convention around here. Same with me, large format sheet fed though and made the switch to flying in late 20s so not quite the same situation but close. Well worth making the change just make sure you don't go into debt for it....one great thing about the trade is the shift work, meaning you can train and work whilst still earning good money.
I was pretty happy the day i walked out of there knowing that would be the last time i would have to listen to that noise or change a fcuking blanket! Miss the three day week though!
Aviation is not an easy road by any stretch though so talk to as many people as you can, disregard 10% of opinions at the positive and negative extremes and go into it with your eyes open.

[scardycap]

Ahh yes the good ol days. Changing blankets, trying to print nice big solids without hickies. Don't miss it at all
Having said that my last job was printing domino's pizza flyers on a big old Roland. Millions of them. My boss allowed me to study whilst watching the machine.
So glad I made the break:)

[cosmo21]

Do it bro, it will be very tough, financially and emotionally. Ups and downs. But dont become an old man, and wonder what if? Only one crack at life.

I started in my mid 20's, but left the game for about 7 years. Got back into it at 35, halved my pay... but I love to fly. Sacrifice I made. Id never change it.

Sometimes, I've found having a few runs on the board is a big advantage. Maturity, life experience ect. Can also help with command decisions ect. In my experience Ive found my age an advantage. I could never think how I would have went as a 20 year old. Not to well. But youve gained lifes tools. Use em. :)

Cosmo

[maxgrad]

POLAR>>>>.
I did it and have not looked back....much
Have three kids and hefty mortgage.

I love flying to the point of addiction,(to flying that is!)
This love and the ensuring motivation helped me cross many bridges.

You only have one life,(until proved otherwise), so live it!

[Jack Ranga]

I know of three fellows in particular who've made the change. The difference is that they were all successful in business, sold them and made the change.

All three were employed by a chief pilot who has the maturity to understand the advantage of employing an older, life experienced person.

And on the printer business, I've got a mate that did the trade and then moved on, now on triple sevens :ok:

[Porkchop]

Hey Polar,
Had never flown till is was 34. Was a computer geek with wife and 3 kids......
. Vomitted on my first three lessons. Stuck with it.
. Spent over 90K on flight training. Stuck with it.
. Seriously considered giving up at least four or five times during training thinking that this is beyond me, have RESPOSIBILITIES and i'm to old to be putting in this much study and competeing against cashed up 20 yo's!!!!!! . Stuck with it and didn't give up!!
Stuck with it and didn't give up!!!!!!
Stuck with it and didn't give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And after a lot of hard work......
. Got a job as a hanger rat
. Worked hard, made the boss happy and got a PA31 endorsement after sweeping hangers for 6 months
. Worked hard, made the boss happy, got a Titan endorsement.
. Worked hard, made the boss happy, got a King Air endorsement.
Flew around the country pinching myself that I got to fly these very cool aircraft.

And then one day.....

Put and application into an airline, jumped through their hoops and got a job !!!
Now flying RPT turboprops and loving it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Age gives you one advantage Polar .....perspective!!!! You already know how to work hard and survive! You already know how to deal with stress!!! You already know how to compete....and it is a competition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm now 40 with 4 kids and a wife, get paid about half as much now as I did as a computer geek, but you know what............I come to work every day and get paid to do my hobby and love it!!!!!!!

Took me about 6 years all up of working my A%$* off but it is totally worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Commit to it, don't give up!! don't give up!! don't give up!! don't give up!!
And before you know it you'll be staring down at the ground from flight levels pinching yourself as I did, rather than looking up into the sky, watching planes go by feeling full of regret that you didn't give it a go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get in there and give it a crack Polar...... and you never know, one day down the track, after you've succeeded, you can give the same advise to some other older bloke who is worried about sticking his neck out to chase a dream!!!

That's what I reckon anyway!!

[Horatio Leafblower]

Porkchop

After 15 years of listening to every other bastard whinge about doing a job I love, that is one of the best posts I have read on here for ages :D

Thanks mate well done :ok:

[SgtBundy]

Liking this thread - good to hear it can be done :ok:

Now to make it happen for myself :)

[Di_Vosh]

Some similarities with porkchop...

Worked in I.T. and was sick of it (By mid-morning on Monday I was counting down the hours until knock off on Friday)

First flying lesson in December 2001 at age 38.
I.T. full-time/flying part time CPL 15 months later.
I.T. full-time/casual flying for 18 months.
I.T. part-time/flying part-time for 18 months
12 month sabattical from flying (training and o/s deployment with the army)
First full-time flying job in Darwin
Second full-time flying job at Qlink in April 2008

Six and a half years from first lesson to getting the Qlink gig.

Not all beer and skittles on the way and there were some close calls financially along the way which would have meant me going back into I.T. :ouch: If I had kids I don't think I'd have got there.

Seriously considered giving up at least four or five times during training thinking that this is beyond me...

Stuck with it and didn't give up!!!!!!

Age gives you one advantage Polar .....perspective!!!! You already know how to work hard and survive! You already know how to deal with stress!!! You already know how to compete.

Worked hard

get paid about half as much now as I did as a computer geek, but you know what............I come to work every day and get paid... and love it!!!!!!!

YES to all the above :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:


DIVOSH!

[ScarabofRa]

Wow! So many positive comments. It really is quite refreshing and encouraging to read on PPRuNe! Thanks guys :ok:

My 2c: Although having a sound focus and solid goal is important (essential?) in providing one with the persistent determination required to make it all happen, just make sure that you always keep things in perspective and most importantly, that you enjoy the journey. After all, that's what life is all about ;)

[Polar140403]

To all... thank you for these positive and uplifting posts :D... inspiring to see those of you who have struggled through financial and emotional hardship to achieve your dream and made it... if I wasn't confident before I certainly am now. Definitely don't want to exit this life wondering "what if !!"
...And that last blanket change, hickie pick, duct change, blanket wash, re-web, plate twist and s:mad:t coffee is certainly something to look forward to :ok:

[tarmac12]

I started at 33 and got CPL at a city pump 'em through flying factory.

Lesson 1, Go to a country or suburban school as they have industry contacts who can help you out with your first job. I got CPL 2.5 years ago and still haven't cracked that first job. Not the instructor type so limits it a bit.

Lesson 2, stay away from schools with foreign airlines contracts. You will be number 10 on the priority list.

Lesson 3, dont get talked into doing a rating you dont really need. Aerobatics is great if want to do it but tailwheel and low level is a bit of a waste if you dont have a soild job offer.

Unlike most of the posters on here I have come across some ageism but that seemed to come from places you wouldn't want to work at anyway.

I also wanted to stop numerous times but kept cracking on with it. I know if I persist I will get a break so haven't given up yet. Some young guys who I did CPL with have already given up looking and have wasted bucket loads of mum and dads money.

[Donwoody]

I am 39, I did my private/com/NVFR rating back in 1992 then didn't use it. I worked as a cameraman for 20 years. Over all that time I was glider towing - did about 900 hours of that - didn't cost me a cent. In October 2008 I decided I was sick of the media and I wanted to turn my hobby into my career. I did a MECIR and applied for a job. In total I had 1200 single engine VFR hours and my basic IFR rating. It took 11 months but a charter job came up in the country so I sold my house and my wife and I moved. I started flying a C402 doing passenger charter as my first job. In a couple of months I was on the C404. The company was a great place to fly and the boss was very good to me. If you work hard and do the right thing it gets noticed. I've just resigned and I'm starting a new job in 4 weeks - again on a C404 but with FO work on a turbo prop. Currently I'm studying my ATPLs - 2 down - 5 to go. I'm married with no kids. I had a plan to change my career and get back to a similar salary within 5 years, I'm half way into that time frame. The most important thing, I love going to work! I feel like I haven't worked for a year and a half! The young pilots I come across are in such a hurry to progress and climb the ladder. I'm not in a hurry, just enjoying the ride - you have to smell the roses along the way. You will take a financial hit though. I love Porkchop's post - VERY true.

[Howard Hughes]

Got my first job at 36, if anything I have found it (being older) an advantage!:ok:

Plenty of guys a lot older than me have got their first jet jobs in the last few years too...

[Al Fentanyl]

so I sold my house and my wife :} Respect, dude!:ok:

PPL at 34, CPL & MECIR at 37, first gig on C182 at 38, kept at it, moved up through PA34, PA31, went full time and dropped pay by 75%, C404, C208, B200. Back to where I was money wise 10 years ago. Happy as a pig in poo. Follow you heart, you're only here once...... life is not a dress rehearsal.

Al Fentanyl
Fast Acting, Multi Route, Short Duration, Non Addictive.

[Wally Mk2]

Some lovely heart warming stories here but remember these are just a few Eg's am sure not all whom have undertaken such 'adventure' have succeeded so the best advice is have an out.
Don't rely on aviation as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Sure have goals but make them realistic. Flying is fun & there's still an element of 'few can do it' but it's not for everyone. Having stars in yr eyes is nice & you need a certain amount of that as a dreamer but family, financial pressure are the real issues in life so before undertaking anything as drastic as getting into flying as a late age make sure yr foundations in life are solid. Flying today is a diff beast to what most in here has posted. Even as little as 10 yrs ago flying latter in life was more doable but it's not so the case these days. High oil prices, aging planes & the cut throat business of flying means it's not all glamorous along the way & very unstable even at Airline level.
Don't be fooled by the few whom have made it.Remember the post was asking for 'advice', some good advice here for sure but look at both sides of the balance beam.
No this is not a negative post it's reality, blowing sunshine up yr ass is not going to pay the bills!
Again go for it if that's ye desire but do so in a professional way:ok:

Oh & just 4 the record I didn't get my first paid flying job 'till I was mid 30's.I worked in the Oil industry & the Auto industry where the real money was I flew whilst I had the bucks coming in elsewhere.


Wmk2

[The Bunglerat]

Some lovely heart warming stories here but remember these are just a few Eg's am sure not all whom have undertaken such 'adventure' have succeeded so the best advice is have an out.

True, Wally, that not all have succeeded, but I think the moral of the story here is, as the saying goes: you'll never never know, if you never never have a go.

I personally think it's great to read some positive, uplifting comments for a change, instead of all the usual spiteful, negative crap that so often pollutes these forums. Keep 'em coming! :ok:

[Polar140403]

Thanks for the advice Wally.
I've weighed up all my options, tried to think of all possible outcomes and it was really the fear of having most doors closed in my face because of my age that was holding me back. I'm sure some routes will be blocked because of this but it's great to hear that there are employers and chief pilots out there who do value life experience and maturity when considering you for a position.
It's follow my dream of flying for a living and doing something I love or a degree in engineering and, while I'll find it interesting and stimulating, be always looking up at every aircraft that passes overhead.

Can I ask whether anyone's had experiences with specific schools? Can I name the schools in these forums, don't want to break any protocols.

[Al Fentanyl]

This is my third career, probably be another after this.....I'm thinking lecherous old b*stard :8

My age has been more of a help than a hindrance, possibly because I've been prepared to say 'no' on occasions, possibly because some life experience gives you a better perspective.

I'm happy, flying fast, expensive, well maintained aeroplanes:). My family is happy, because I'm happy and I'm being paid well:):). My boss is happy, because I'm happy in the job and doing good work for him:p.

Some of the shavetails frequenting this site could be surprised to know that the whole aviation world does not, in fact, revolve around airlines.:rolleyes:

Redcliffe Aeroclub or Avalon Airservices at Caboolture.:ok: Best of British luck to you.

[ralph1]

Polar, I just found your posts and I am in the same boat as you and many others by the looks of it. I am 42, have had my PPL since 1996 and didnt do much flying until I turned 40. I woke up the day I turned 40 and wondered what the hell I was doing with my life. I am married no kids big mortgage work as a boilermaker on construction sites and thought stuff it time for a change.
Finally got my CPL this year and have just done the IREX. Still working in construction but looking to find a job in the new year.
Hows your dreams going?:ok:

[Stikman]

PPL in '91, then stopped flying in '95. I've done all the CPL training a long time ago, but never finished it off. Got married, had 3 kids, got divorced and got the kids.
Regained my currency about 12 months ago, and got my RA instructor rating at the end of October. Working as a contract drafty to pay the bills, and instructing to hone my skills and looking to CPL in the next 6 months. Dunno where to go from there, most likely GA instructor for a while, then see where it all takes me.
To be totally truthful, I'm happy I made it this far.

[Peppard]

Firstly, congrats on starting a great thread Polar and the move to follow your dream. I actually just registered so I could post on this thread :) I had been in the building trade for 11 years and to me it was always just a job, not a career. I was a good student when I was young (in air cadets and had gliding license at 16) but was young and easily influenced and got led astray. August last year I made the decision to completely change both my outlook on life including my career. So far....NEVER LOOKED BACK. Its been nearly a year and now got CPL and just finished IREX with a drop pilot job lined up in a couple of months. Totally agree with all comments so far mate, its been hard but the rewards are worth it! Having a trade and life exp. definately has helped. Ive got my eyes set on the jets but enjoying the ride at the mo.;) No one can stop someone with purpose Polar good luck bloke.
Ps. Sorry about the lenthy novel

[spocky]

Polar, as an employer, you will find you are alot more attractive to a company than say a 20 year old just on the basis of your experiences in the world...having said that, you will still need to work as hard as the kids to achieve as much with the 20 years you have left to fly.

I know Virgin still take on 50 year old F/O's, as it's not so much about the age but the attitude.

[Gearupandorrf]

Hi guys,

It's great to see that I'm not the only one on this side of the age/ experience curve. Polar- great thread, thanks for starting it.

My situation is as follows (I'm now 38):
- PPL gained all the way back in 1993.
- CPL subjects passed around the same time.
- Got a ground based job which included a Traineeship where I managed to score an Advanced Diploma in Mech. Engineering. Did that for a while so I could afford the next move (below).

- Wife has the right to live and work in the UK,
- Spent 1999/ 2000 in the UK training for a UK/ JAR frozen ATPL.
- Moved to the UK soon after to try to get a job.
- 9/11/2001 changed the whole market, couldn't get a job.
- Spent time working in Flight Ops to try to get a foot in the door- this didn't help in the end but the experience was invaluable.

- Decided to move home to Aus after trying for a few more years in the UK.
- Started work in a job unrelated to Aviation, plus started my own Business to create another income stream.
- Kids were becoming a priority, due to my Wife being older than me
- 8 Years down the track, many multiple miscarriages and several unsuccesful bouts of IVF treatment- no Kids of our own and we've given up.
- The last 2 years have spent getting over the above.
- Tried to lie to myself that I'd be happy in a non flying job for the next 30 years of my working life- I failed.

- Thanks to hard work, am now mortgage free with some savings and no debt.
- Am lucky enough to work in Flight Ops/ Dispatch for one of the major Airlines, so have been blessed with some great networking opportunities and the possibility to go to the Jet soon after conversion training.
- Thanks to shift work, have managed to get ATPLs and IREX theory out of the way this year.
- Will be doing the conversion flying for CPL/ MECIR in early 2013.

- am currently getting my life in a situation where I can go anywhere, anytime, to get a job Flying. I don't care what/ where/ how, I just want to be doing what I love for a living.
- Fortunately, I still have the full support of an awesome Wife.

Hopefully a potential Employer will be able to look past my age, and see my life and work experience- plus the muturity that goes with it. I'm also hoping that my time in a Flight Ops/ Dispatch role would also be worth considering.

For any of you older guys/ girls who are on the fence (and can weigh up the risks of going for it), I would encourage you all to do so.
I've been in a place where I've had to let go of the dream- it's not nice.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[Katoom]

CPL at 45, flying full time 2 years later. Never too old to do the hard yards...

[ralph1]

Way to go Katoom.
Where did you do the hard yards?