Logging PIC time as an FO

[Iz]

There's been an ongoing discussion between me and a lot of colleagues about how to log your flight time as a first officer on a FAR 135 commercial op.

The FO is rated in the aircraft.

First of all, on a part 91 (non revenue) leg, the SIC can log PIC when he's the sole manipulator of the aircraft.

But.. On a commercial leg, it's my understanding that the PIC is designated by the company and cannot be changed during flight. Therefore, the SIC cannot log PIC when he's not the PIC, correct?

There's ongoing debate about this and the counter argument is that Part 135 doesn't mention logging of flight time at all, so they log everything they fly as sole manipulator.

To all the FO's and former FO's who fly in the US in Part 135/121 ops, how do you log your time?

I'm very curious!

Iz

[expedite_climb]

....but can log Pic u/s

[Former_SLUF_Driver]

Part 121/135

It's listed in the Company SOP/FOM the PIC is designated by company dispatch and cannot be changed.

You cannot log PIC on a 121 or 135 flight unless you are the designated PIC on the dispatch form or company release.

SLUF

[Iz]

That's what I'm saying as well. But then those who disagree say that there's nothing about LOGGING in part 135/121. Doesn't that leave a gap that's subject to different interpretations?

[LAZYB]

http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/

DOC's FAR FORUM

word search PIC time. DOC has addressed this numerous times with FAA legal advisement. Great site.

[Iz]

LAZYB, EXCELLENT site! Thanks a million.

Iz

[DownIn3Green]

Iz,

Log what you want but one will never understand the real meaning of PIC until the lights go out at night and you´re bingo fuel for a minimums approach. At that point, does it really matter how many "PIC" hours the SIC has?

Human Resources folks understand the difference. If you haven´t passed the upgrade at your airline, you´re not the PIC, no matter what you put in your logbook.

If you´re showing 500 hours PIC in your type, for instance, one of the first questions you´ll be faced with is "Why aren´t you a Captain?" (PIC for real)

[Flap 5]

Be careful about padding out your log book, especially with hours you are not entitled to. There has been a recent case of an F/O being taken to court for this, I believe he was with Airtours(?). It may inflate your ego but it is not taken lightly by the authorities. The safest bet for an F/O is to log P1(U/S). Even then it should not be excessive as it would look odd if you were logging all of the handling time.