At what point do I need an AOC?

[msrogerson]

I've recently got my CPL and a friend wants me to do some flying for him. This will involve taking his customers & business partners sightseeing, or taking them places for meetings etc.. .I'll be using an archer or something similar which I'll hire from a local flying club.. .My question is (as the title suggests) how much can I do with a CPL and a hired aircraft. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

[PURPLE PITOT]

In short, very little.. .. .If you hire an aircaft, all you can do is cost share,ie share the cost equally between yourself and your passengers( its a little more complicated, do a search as there was a recent thread that explained it all nicely.). .. .If your friend purchases an aircraft (and i dont think a share counts), he can pay you to fly it.. .. .Anything else is public transport and will require an AOC, lots of time and money to arrange, forget it.. .. .Hope this helps.. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 18:05: Message edited by: PURPLE PITOT ]</small>

[aztruck]

Sounds like illegal Public Transport unfortunately. If you shared costs it would be legal as long as you were all going to the same place anyway, but you would have to pay your share. If your mate bought a plane with his Company money and then employed you to fly it for him on a freelance basis whenever he needed it, I think that might be OK.. .You might still get into hot water depending on what deal your chum has done with the passengers. If for example he is charging them money(even for charity),then he is in effect selling seats and hence needs an AOC.. .The penalties are pretty draconian for illegal stuff, let alone the insurance ramifications (i.e. you havent got any) in the event of any kind of incident.. .I advertised Charity flights for Auction in a 172, and in order to be legal did a base check and CRM/Fire/First Aid(for a 172!!), not to mention reams of paperwork including the ability to sign off for a Check "A" of a 172. You may think you have been signing off Check "A"'s for years on your tech log...but not as far as the CAA is concerned you have'nt. . .Hope this does'nt depress your enthusiasm but it's better than losing your licence.

[msrogerson]

Many thanks for the help, just as I suspected, I need a blessing from the pope to use my shiny new licence. . .However, could I not take these people flying just for photography/local sightseeing using a hired or a borrowed aircraft which is on a public transport C of A?

[excrab]

If you hire the aircraft then it is public transport and illegal without an AOC.. .. .However, if your friends company either buys or hires the aircraft, none of the passengers contribute to the cost themselves (ie they are company employees or customers thereof), and you are properly licensed and type rated if required, then you may get paid for flying them as you are only providing pilot services within the priveleges of your CPL.. .. .This is perfectly legal and is the way that many business jets are operated (unless they are also being used for charter work when the owner/company doesn't want them).. .. .However it is important for your own peace of mind that you check the aircraft insurance covers what you are doing, and also that the passengers really are not paying your friend to be flown - if anything goes wrong and the CAA get involved then as stated the fines are (rightly) considerable.