LANDINGS!!!!??????

[theschultx]

um, can any of you great pilots out there tell me the secret of a good landing??? i am having a little trouble getting the thing on the ground right now and i cant work out whats wrong... i have only done 9 hrs so thats not much but i hope i can go solo soon. (that wont happen until my landings improve :) ) circuits are fine but i just cant master landings. email me at [email protected]

[mad_jock]

It's something which just clicks.

I though i was crap but the instructors said i was OK.

Get your speed right and your slope angle kill the power then drop the nose slightly when you get into ground effect to stop ballooning and then see how long up can keep it in the air with the power off.

It works for me.

MJ

[englishal]

Use the rudder a lot to line up with the runway. When I first started I was always trying to line up using aileron, and it didn't work very well ! Also, when in the ground effect, look at the far end of the runway, and just keep pulling back until touch down. If you flare a little high, add a touch of power to cushion the landing....

In a cross wind, (my prefered method) is the wing down method. Use the rudder to remain parallel with the runway, and aileron to control drift across the runway. Like Mad_Jock says it just sort of clicks. I thought I was crap when I started, but then one day it suddenly 'happened'...at around 25 hrs, so don't worry about it !

[JJflyer]

Depends on what you are flying. On a B727 and some other haulers that have gear waaaay back releasing a little of that pull on the yoke will do a roll-on, a nice and smooth provided you time this well.

JJ

[mad_jock]

Are you still working towards your solo 727 as well? :)

BTW i haven't come across the term rollon before. Or is that to be saved for the Jet conv.

MJ

[Tinstaafl]

Roll on: Started with the B707 I think.

The idea is to pitch nose down just before the mains would hit the ground.

With the main gear located so far behind the CoG, the ND pitch would cause the gear to move upwards (relative to the CoG).

Because the whole of the aircraft is still descending the net effect is to reduce the downwards velocity the main gear has when it eventually touches down.

[Propellerhead]

Try doing everything slower. I used to get to where I thought I should flare, and simply chop the power. Instead, try taking the power of gradually, and if necessary land with a touch of power still on. At the same time, start gradually rounding out. If you start going to high, reduce the power slightly more, and reduce the pull back. If going low you still can add a bit of power.
However, it will eventually come, trust me.

Also, don't expect perfection every time, even the most experienced bang it in sometimes!

[willbav8r]

I usually chop the power when at 30 ft or so just before the threshold / numbers. Then it is a question of keeping aligned with the centreline, and flaring the beast smoothly (PA28). No throttle to worry about, I concentrate more on position and height. Hold above the runway and wait for the sink. I was terrible at first, teeth smashers every one. After 20 hours or so, it finally clicked. Then it becomes real fun.

Good Luck on the solo, it really is better than sex (for a while). :)

[kabz]

If there's any chance you are under about 5'10", then try a cushion under you. FBOs usually have a good stock.

Might help you see a bit better. Hope this helps. Made a big difference to me. I'm 5'10".

[Tinstaafl]

Some things that might help you learn to land.

Background:

Learning to land is complicated by the dynamically changing environment:-

* The amount of back pressure needed to change the flight path from downwards to horizontal at a few feet above the rwy, changes depending on IAS, vertical speed, height above the rwy, weight, CoG. & configuration

More speed means less control input needed to pitch due to more responsiveness
More height above the RWY means less input needed to pitch ie reduce the rate that the a/c's flight path changes from downwards to horizontal
Weight changes the inertia characteristics, making the a/c less responsive
Flap setting changes the handling characteristics & the rate that the IAS washes off. This in turn changes rate that the control effectivenes changes.

When the power is reduced it causes a change in the flight characteristics: the a/c yaws which in turn can lead to a roll, and the a/c pitches - which means a further requirement for elevator input additional to that required just to flare.


All these changes occur over a few seconds or so.

Easiest way I found for students to learn to handle them was to separate the effects in time AND not to worry about the landing too much UNTIL the student could arrive at the same height/speed/configuration over the threshold with the flight parameters stable ie airspeed constant, rate of descent constant.

Once over the runway, fly level above the runway - eventually stable at the correct height & aligned with the C/Line.

Then gradually reduce power while still aiming to keep the a/c at the same height above the runway.

The goal is to STOP the a/c from descending and to counter the pitch/yaw effects from the power reduction.

All this to separate the various effects so that they can be dealt with one or two at a time. With increasing skill from practice the student will be able to handle more of the inputs & changes at the same time - eventually able to reduce power while commencing the flare.

BTW: A nice LOOOOONGGG runway helps for all of this!!!! :) :)



[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 13 June 2001).]

[mad_jock]

There is lots of nice infomation above but try not to think to much. If you start thinking about doing a perfect landing it's to much, just try and drop it with the minimal of fuss and control inputs ( the plane is better at flying than you are if trimmed).

Your landings will hit a peak when you solo then the quality will drop abit when you get an eye for what "will do". Then as you gain experence they will start improving again and you be able to handle larger x_wind vectors.
The most important part is getting the plane trimmed and flying itself down the approach so you arrive at the correct height and the correct speed. Your only there to suggest what the plane does next, if you try and force it into a state which has to much energy or to little it will bite back.

And if at any point you feel unsure or it dosn't look right, go around, why pay for a sh*te landing.

And don't worry, we all do crunchers occasionally. Learn and enjoy, if you get stressed it can only make things worse.

MJ

[mstram]

Took me (relatively) forever to learn how to land.

My original stumbling block was that I was so focused on the touchdown point, that the rest of the runway wasn't even in my conscious mind. I think I almost expected the plane to stop instantly when it touched down !

I didn't really have a good idea of what the flare was all about, in retrospect I should have asked for a 'clearer' explanation of what we were trying to do.

What really helped was a couple of things. First we broke up the flare into two sections. From the descent to the runway, we levelled off, and kept the power on, just flying down the runway.

Next, we flew right down to the runway, then kept the power on and just flew right down the runway a couple of feet off. This was good for seeing what the sight picture was when down that low.

Finally it was emphasized that I should be looking at the end of the runway, and maintaining a climb attitude while trying to fly the plane down the runway, and 'keep it off', matching the elevator input to the sink rate, adding power if neccessary (sinking too fast).

Another thing that helped a lot was that I went over to CYYZ and watched literally hundreds of planes land. Seeing that flare over and over again, really impressed the picture in my mind.

Mike

[daytrader]

Airspeed, airspeed, airspeed.
Get that right and everything else will be easy.

[A7E Driver]

When you get down into/near ground effect and are flaring, look toward the end of the runway and try to match the front cowling with the horizon. If you start to baloon --- just ease off ease off a bit. Trying to match the foward cowling with the horizon will start to yield some greasers. Guarantee.

[airforcenone]

Put it in the right place at the right speed. The rest will come with practice.

[OLBA18]

I was always instructed whether it was for an AA5 of laterly jet aircraft to just keeping flying it down the slope with the correct ROD and on speed, as the flare height approaches remove the power and pull back just enough to check the ROD, hold it and land - if you took the power off too early and started the flare too early push the nose down a little add power then repeat the above. In my case initially it was like playing chicken with myself as I always wanted to flare too high so I had to learn to delay the flare. I always found flapless landings the easiest when learning to fly as you just flew it onto the runway i.e nose was already up.
Fond memories ..

[fokker]

What a lot of complicated stuff!!!

Back when I learned to fly, you know, when summers were warm and my hair was still brown, the toppest tip I got was this:

Assuming you've contrived a good, accurate approach and round-out, close the throttle (PLEASE! not "chop") and then DON'T TRY TO LAND; Try to keep it flying. BTW, with no power, it won't! Same applies to c-150's, 20-ton turbo-props and heavy jets.

Enjoy.

You haven't seen me, right?

[Need4speed]

Fly parallel to the runway. Throttle back and as the aircraft begins to sink, raise the nose.

Practice initally at a low flap setting to get the feel.

[theschultx]

Thanks Everybody for the great info. landings are still hard but i am getting there. hope to catch a couple of you in later years!!! Smooth Flying!!!

Josh :)