Tactics, how would Vulcan attack USSR ?

[coldair]

Hi Guys,

not seeking any classified info.

How would the Vulcan fleet have attacked Russia ? Would it have been in several formations, or would each one have taken different routes using ECM ?

I'm sure we would have got through, just as likewise they would have but I'm interested in the tactics we may have employed.

Cheers guys,

Coldair ( A Vulcan lover )

[barnstormer1968]

Hi Coldair.

I know very little on this...Too young and no need to know etc, but you could always read up on how dummy attacks were made against the USA to get some idea on one way it could be done.

Getting there was one thing, but having any chance of getting home, or having a home to return to was another.

[Pontius Navigator]

Coldair,

It is set out in Peter Hennesey's book, The Secret State, in which you will find diagrams etc.

Essentially the force would depart simultaneouly from its main and dispersal bases and would not form up in any form of formation. They would however generally concentrate in time and space to present a narror front when they penetrated the littoral defences. The idea would be to saturate the SAM and fighter system on a very narrow front which hopefully would achieve local air superiority during the penetration.

The USSR was well aware of this potential and attempted to plug any gaps it determined. On one occasion there was a gap of about 12 miles; they filled this gap with 2 SA3 batteries narrowing the gap to less than 5 miles. It was still assessed that the batteries would be shot-out before the bulk of the force squeezed through.

Although aircraft were given time-on-target to +/- 3 minutes there was no such timing constraint on the initial penetration; things would have been quite exciting.

[Yellow Sun]

You may wish to browse this thread (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74152) on another site. It contains quite a lot of information relevant to your question.

YS

[Al R]

PN/YS,

How was Special Wpn security maintained at these (I assume) quiet dispersal bases? If SW15 was maintained for up to 30 days at a stretch, where was the compromise made between a robust, physical security and a discrete, low profile?

[Pontius Navigator]

Al, in the 60s the requirement was for a single RAFP on each aircraft so there would be two continuously of duty on a 2 ac dispersal and 4 on a 4ac dispersal. At both dispersal and main base this would be agumented by airmen armed with pick axe handles.

In those days there was no acknowledged threat from Spetznaz or 5th columnist and airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.

[Al R]

:eek: .. blimey.

Ta.

[sisemen]

airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.

Don't know about Waddo et al but at Scampers and Finningley that would be a forlorn hope (keeping the sheep out I mean). Looking back on it, and comparing it to the angst of IRA days, one wonders how the hell we got away with it.

[Gainesy]

not seeking any classified info.

How would the Vulcan fleet have attacked Russia ?

Classic!:D:)

[BEagle]

Ah yes, Al R, but said RAFP would also have had a hungry woolly alligator, plus an SMG and probably a pistol as well with which to hold off the red hordes!

Just our luck to be allocated the 'shape' on a Strike Force Dispersal exercise once - we arrived at Finningley before the RAFP guards did. Playing the 2-man principle thing, we 2 pilots stayed in the cockpit whilst the 3 rear crew walked to the perimeter, then 2 of them came back on board leaving just 'Mongo', our Nav Radar, to fight off all comers with just his 9mm Browning, threatening voice and 'imposing presence'!

It really was a bit Dad's Army at times - but what fun times they were!

Although our gallant groundcrew, having once successfully nabbed an intruder, had to be advised that using locking wire to tie his thumbs to the chain-link fence whilst making him stand on tip-toe in his shreddies was perhaps taking things a bit too far!

[Pontius Navigator]

using locking wire to tie his thumbs to the chain-link fence whilst making him stand on tip-toe in his shreddies was perhaps taking things a bit too far!

On a bent banana base in Germany, during a Taceval in a typical German winter, a group of Bundeswehr were held at the Gymnasium and left outside with nothing on except a hood, their tops and their long johns (if worn). One of the wives rang in to complain of these semi-naked men outside the Gym.:}

I also caught a 'dead' OC OPs, under his desk taking the telephone call from his wife.

[Tankertrashnav]

Was never on bombers (by the way Coldair [a Vulcan lover] have you ever heard of Victors and Valiants, they were part of the V Force too?) but even on tankers there was one aspect of our war role which was highly classified.

Even at this distance in time I am unsure if this has now been declassified, so my natural inclination is to err on the safe side and say nothing. I dont expect regular updates from the MOD along the lines of "you can now talk about ..." but in general terms how do we know when it's safe to go public?

[racedo]

One of the reasons for NOT declassifying stuff even years later is that in future you never know when you may be required to reinstigate plans like this.

No matter how stupid it seems there could always come a time in needing to do something like this. Letting the plans become public you may highlight a weakness that someone was unaware of and plugs.

Once you have allowed a strategy to become public knowledge someone may be able to guess latter stages by looking at what you have done in early stages.

[minigundiplomat]

Once you have allowed a strategy to become public knowledge someone may be able to guess latter stages by looking at what you have done in early stages.


There's a strategy to what we do? When did that happen?

[Jimlad1]

Of course there is a strategy MGD - how else do you think things in the forces got this bad? We couldnt have screwed up this badly without a strategy!

Be careful mind, now you've started talking about strategy, you'll be getting ideas above your station and expecting to see a plan. My ROE allow for the use of deadly force in that eventuality (or rather, following MOD cutbacks, allow me to point a pistol at you, pull the trigger and watch as a big 'BANG' flag unfurls in your direction...) :E

[Saintsman]

and watch as a big 'BANG' flag unfurls in your direction...

Flag?

In my day we had to shout 'Bang'.....

[Fareastdriver]

but even on tankers there was one aspect of our war role which was highly classified.
As a tanker pilot when the hooters went and the mess corridors were aloud with thumping feet I used to turn over and secretly go back to sleep.

[Pontius Navigator]

FED, wot, no ACP?

[Mike7777777]

How would a Vulcan attack the USSR? Low and fast?

[Neptunus Rex]

When 204 (Shackleton) Sqn was based at Honington, we had the national SAR task, and so were "excused Taceval." The best bit was that during Taceval, the Officers' Mess bar was open 24 hours a day. Better still, it was the nominated 204 Sqn refuge!

How we loved Tacevals and Minivals (apart from the duty SAR Crew, of course.)

[dkh51250]

As one of those pick axe handle wielding airmen, yes, it was fun looking back now. However, at the time with no protective clothing other than a hairy battledress preseved in oil and grease to repel the elements it was not such fun.

The two man rule was rigidly enforced by the armed RAF policeman resulting in one particular airmen requiring a change of underwear following his stint on B dispersal at Waddo. His presence being required at ALL times no matter what the excuse.

[sitigeltfel]

Anyone still got a copy of Operation A****e? :mad:

[NRU74]

Even at this distance in time I am unsure if this has now been declassified, Pike - don't mention the Airborne Communications Post !

[Pontius Navigator]

How would a Vulcan attack the USSR? Low and fast?

Actually only from 1964. Before that it was high level. Using a high level profile the aircraft could reach Big M with relative ease albeit they would then be in the SA1 coverage. The penetration route was also different with a number of tracks penetrating via Swiss airspace although I have a suspicion that once we sold the Swiss Bloodhound SAM . . .

[Fareastdriver]

Pontius Navigator FED, wot, no ACP?

There was; but not until about 1964 when they went low level. We used to leave that to the career crew.

[Pontius Navigator]

I also had a quick glimpse of the SR2 plan; very sporty as they had to cover several of the targets for post strike reconnaissance. Not quite sure to whom they were going to delivery their debrief.

The SOP by 1964 was very much from cloud-cuckoo land but when you realised that in the late 50s the number of nukes was far fewer so it was actually not wholly unrealistic in its early years.

It included the telephone numbers of embassies and air attaches. It included the possibility of being redirected for rearming and restriking etc etc.

[ACW418]

Beags is quite correct in saying the RAFP had a wooly alligator but as for the SMG - forget it. They actually carried a revolver which was not loaded. They also carried the ammunition in a separate pocket but it was fully wrapped so they would have had to ask the nice intruder person to hang on a minute whilst they found/ unwrapped/ loaded the ammunition.

This was in the mid 60's when anyone could drive onto the base - no barrier - and had free access to all areas. All you would have needed was a few grenades to throw into the intakes whilst said RAFP fumbled with his gun and you could have put out the entire QRA aircraft. You would probably have lost your trouser seat to the wooly alligators though.

The clever bit was that the nice intruder person didn't know that the guns weren't loaded.

Of course if as a pilot you wanted access to the aircraft at the wrong time it needed the Prime Ministers signature as a minimum to get near the aircraft.

ACW

[Pontius Navigator]

ACW, I recall an incident in 1965 or 1966 when a civvi drove through Cottesmore village to the A1. Instead of turning right for Greetham he went straight ahead. He went through the main gate, passed Ops and the Mess, passed the quarters, reached the lazy and hung a left.

He came to a T-junction and turned right towards the A1. He proceeded down the taxi-way on only when he reached the 3 Vulcans did the penny drop.

Also at Cottesmore, at a weekend whenever there was a practice alert we could see all the sight seers hanging on the crash gate by the dispersal. Once the practice was over and we got out, of the crowd not a trace. We were convinced they had advanced notice or were wired into the sound system :}

[Tankertrashnav]

Is there any truth in the story I heard when serving that an exceedingly stupid orderly officer who tried to see what would happen if he disobeyed the sentry's order to halt as he approached the aircraft ended up dead with a bullet through him? In the version of the story I heard it was an American sentry - something to do with American warheads - but the whole tale may be apocryphal as far as I know.

btwI never heard the term wooly alligator before. I've got one of them, but she's more of a woolly pussycat if truth be told!

[Jimlad1]

"Pike - don't mention the Airborne Communications Post !"

If you're talking about the role of the tanker fleet relaying the 'go signal' then the role of the airbone communications post has been declassified and is mentioned in the 'Secret State' among other publications.

[Saintsman]

I recall first guard duties in the UK armed with a pickaxe handle. That was followed by the SLR but with no magazine. Then we were allowed magazines but no bullets and eventually (late 80s?) we were issued with the lot.

Life was easier with a pickaxe handle though.

[Tankertrashnav]

If you're talking about the role of the tanker fleet relaying the 'go signal' then the role of the airbone communications post has been declassified and is mentioned in the 'Secret State' among other publications


Thanks Jimlad. We used to have to go in the classified vault in Marham Ops and revise this every month or so. On one occasion an airman in Ops was overheard to say he had just seen a lot of officers coming out of a cupboard!

(Hope you're right about the declassification. If I get a visit from SIB I'll blame you).

[racedo]

(Hope you're right about the declassification. If I get a visit from SIB I'll blame you).

It will either be them or "The Spanish Inquisition" as nobody expects them ;)

[ian16th]

airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.At Marham, early 60's, when 49 Sqdn was added to the station. 214 Sqdn, now operational tanker Sqdn, had to move from their dispersal next to the bomb dump in favour of 49.

We were moved to a dispersal very close to Swaffham! The guys that lived out drove to a point outside of the fence and 'hopped over'. It saved them many miles of travel :ok:

[Samuel]

I once saw a "weapon" with a "Ban The Bomb" sticker prominently displayed being delivered to a Victor at Cottesmore! Funny guys those cracker-stackers.

[Merv Astle]

We were pre-targetted on individual routes designed to avoid known USSR defences, primarilly using a high-low profile and ECM using a free-fall weapon. Blue Steel supposedly had the advantage of a stand-off release, but its severely reduced range at low level, and the need to pop-up get the missile clear of the parent aircraft before its motor fired, didn't really work. Unofficially, we reckoned about 10-20% of the V-Force would have made it to the target, but in many instances it would be to bomb a big hole made by a previous (US) strike . . .

[goofer3]

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/goofer33/RiotCon.jpg?t=1285966820"Life was easier with a pick axe handle"..... and the Thunder Flash and striker.

[India69]

Ah ..the .303.. BIG BANG ...sore shoulder

[exgroundcrew]

The RAFP may have had unloaded guns but I am sure the Yanks were loaded. In 1963 when we needed to divert 90 Sqn to Mildenhall due to Honingtons runway being resurfaced. I needed to carry out some repairs to our Valiant’s Radar. The USAF had large white circles painted on the dispersal, one for each aircraft and no one was allowed to cross this line without first showing your 1250 to the guard sitting in a small caravan, nor were you allowed to drive any vehicle passed the line. I approached the guard showed my pass and informed him I was entering the cockpit, he was quite happy with this, I realised I needed a bit of kit from the signals van, I walked over and picked up the test kit, then proceeded to walk back to the Valiant. Immediately he jumped out of the caravan cocked his rifle and shouted “Halt or I shoot”, I retorted “p off you ‘ve just seen my pass” and carried on, his reply was “Halt or I fire and I mean it”. I stormed back, waved my pass and the response was “ Each time you cross the line you come over to me and show your pass, and next time I will shoot you if you don’t do this!”

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

India69. You should have "hugged" it tighter. :E

[Tankertrashnav]

exgroundcrew (http://www.pprune.org/members/203692-exgroundcrew) - that sounds like the situation I was talking about in my post 29 above. I can imagine the American guard wasn't joking either. Still haven't heard anyone who knows whether anyone ever did get shot - would be interesting to know.

[Jabba_TG12]

I know I'm being a bit of a pedant... but shouldnt "woolly alligator" read "furry alligator" instead? :E:}

Havent heard the term in years, brought a smile to my chops on a wet, dull saturday afternoon...

[Fareastdriver]

I believe a GPO linesman working on or in the boundaries of Mildenhall or Lakenheath was shot in about 1961.

[subs57]

I have found this to be a very interesting thread inasmuch as I was a Polaris submariner from the late '70's to the mid/late 80's.

As it was the R.N. that took over the U.K's nuclear deterrence from the R.A.F. the V force was occasionally a topic of conversation by us onboard whilst we were on patrol. It generally started along the lines of "Which branch of the forces would you prefer to be in if something kicks off"

Knowing what I knew in those days, and having read every single post on this thread: The idea that a bomber might manage to successfully complete its primary mission and return to base for re deployment, reminded me that they had as much chance of doing that, as we would have of continuing onto our secondary role of hunter killer. Not much!

Knowing these odds, and lets face it most of us did, V force crews would have needed a a stiff spine to carry out these missions, that thankfully were never called upon to carry out.

Best regards to you all:ok:

[mstjbrown]

Pontius:-
I think that Swiss had an interest in the Rapier but don't know whether they followed it up.

Also we once had a fly-off after a dispersal exercise which took us all well up to the Swedish border before altering heading - when it was all high level - late 50's early 60's. One of the papers, I think the Sunday Times, got hold of the route and castigated the RAF for dangerous provocation of the Russians.

[VIProds]

While at Honington, I had the joy of wasting an entire weekend, when Bruce Kent's "Ban the Bomb" gang decided to pay us a visit. We were briefed that any breaches of the perimeter fence would be met with the infiltrators being frog marched to the Guardroom where they would be formally charged by the local Constabulary for trespass on Government property.

If the infiltrators got through our defense line & got to the "Weapons Area", the United States guards would open fire on them. Just why didn't it click that the Americans were guarding our "British independent Nuclear weapons ?

I was part of the cordon guarding the Electronics Block, which was a shame as news filtered down the line that one of the female protesters had started stripping off to attract the attention of several sex starved Airmen, so that her buddies could make a dash for any gaps in the line, but the plan failed.

I also heard that one of the protesters was trying to tease a "woolly alligator" by sticking his finger through the fence at it. The woolly alligator obliged & took the tip of his finger off. The last I heard was that he was suing the RAF.

[Pontius Navigator]

Pontius:-
I think that Swiss had an interest in the Rapier but don't know whether they followed it up.

Also we once had a fly-off after a dispersal exercise which took us all well up to the Swedish border before altering heading - when it was all high level - late 50's early 60's. One of the papers, I think the Sunday Times, got hold of the route and castigated the RAF for dangerous provocation of the Russians.

mst - both the Swiss and the Swedes had Bloodhound 2. The Swiss did not, as far as I know, get the full mod package. The canny Swedes, OTOH, accepted that the Bloodhound was fully developed and therefore near perfect. I believe it was written in theor contract that they would get any mods needed by the RAF done to their rockets to. When it came to a buy-back it was far easier to bring the Swedish missiles up to the RAF standard.

Agree about the exercises heading for Sweden before turning south over Denmark and then attacking the UK on a broadfront. The last I recall was Exercise Kingpin in 1965 when we were top stack at 510 with others in the 40s below us and the RAFG Canberras in the 30s below that. The offensive force numbered around 300 bombers on a broad front and 21 minutes in depth. At the same time the USAFE had an 'unrelated' exercise with a similar mass raid overlapping ours to the north and as far south as London.

The defence forces numbered, IIRC, 199 fighters including Hunters from CFE and RN Sea Vixen from Yeovilton and a good time was had by all - we saw lots of contrails but nothing at our level.

[Pontius Navigator]

late '70's to the mid/late 80's.

Knowing what I knew in those days. . . The idea that a bomber might manage to successfully complete its primary mission and return to base for re deployment,

Knowing these odds, and lets face it most of us did, V force crews would have needed a a stiff spine to carry out these missions,

The 50s and 60s were of course a different phase of the war.

As for stiff spine, it was true but also you just shut your mind to that part of the mission.

In the 50s the number of nukes was so low as to make it quite possible that you could have returned and rearmed. By 1964 there was still some way to go until MAD was accomplished.

Merv was quite right about the expectation of attacking a hole in the ground. Whenever we got a new target sheet the first thing was looked for was the little box "Earlier Missile Strike Yes/No". If "Yes" the we knew our odds were immeasurably better.

The hole in the ground from at earlier attack might have been sufficient to flatten an airfield but not close enough to excavate the runway etc. Our accuracy was potentially better and would have administered the coup de grace.

Some of our targets were arguably of no military value - HQ of a Military District for instance. It would be like attacking HQ Rheindahlen when everything that could move would have been long gone.

[FirstFiveEighth]

Sometime around '70 or '71, there was a disenchanted Vulcan captain who was caught contacting the Russians and trying to sell ops information. He was jailed for some time, but Strike HQ was in a great flurry for some time afterwards as various operational profiles were greatly amended.

Anybody know what happened to him?

[tonker]

Didn't see him at the Labour conference so who knows?

Once worked with a Bloodhound battery commander(?) who was very positive about the system. It was his belief that the RAF never managed to successfully intercept Concorde when approaching at Mach 2 in it's cruise. Not my total bollocks, his, so please don't start.

[Pontius Navigator]

My memory (and Google) failed me. He was a Flt Lt S........ and had bought, or was in the process of buying, the house from the Chief Constable of Lincolnshire.

I don't believe he actually passed any secrets to the Russians as it was the Russians who shopped him. I believe they thought it was a sting operation and anyway they knew where we would penetrate and what our targets were so there was really nothing that he knew that they didn't.

Found this though:

SOVIET-MADE maps showing detailed plans of a major military base in the county will be published today. (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/news/Cold-War-maps-Russians-RAF-Waddington-mapped/article-2708795-detail/article.html)

PS

Asked Mrs PN and she immediately said Alastair and it clicked Alastair Duncan Steadman

Detecting your browser settings (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8535861&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5)

Alastair Duncan Steadman (http://www.namebase.org/xste/Alastair-Duncan-Steadman.html)

There is one Alastair Duncan Steadman aged 69 listed in 192.com. Right age, right name.

[NorthSouth]

Alastair Duncan SteadmanOh yeah him. I understand he was one of those wierdos that thought attacking a hole in the groundthrough clouds of fall-out and with one eye patched against further blasts and with the knowledge that your base was already blown out might not be an entirely productive direction for human endeavour.
NS

[WarmandDry]

North South
Alistair Stedman was an idiot who though he could make a fortune in the property market. When it all fell apart he was willing to betray his country and the aircrew he had been serving with. He was happy to be a V force pilot and take the pay until he c0cked up his wheeler dealing!
He was prepared to betray those who served with him in the worst possible way. If I remember correctly he got an 8 year sentence, similar to that awarded for a murder, I and many others wished that they had thrown away the key!

[Pontius Navigator]

NorthSouth, you actually touch on the truth of the matter. One had to suspend belief and accept that your mission was a just cause and not the preliminary to a crime against humanity.

Oh, and we had to read the Geneva Convention on a regular basis.

[BEagle]

I was at RAF Valley in 1975 when a visitor turned up. Not that common an event in those days, it has to be said. Some of the others recognised him as having been on their IOT course, but he subsequently went elsewhere.

To become an APM....

"WTF are you doing in this $hithole at this time of year, mate?" was greeted with mumbled excuses about 'visiting the girl friend's parents' or some other unconvincing reason. But a few beers and no-one gave it a second thought...

Not long after, the story broke in the national press.

Roll the clock forward a few years when my pre-Vulcan Buccaneer course had come to its somewhat predictable conclusion and a sqn colleague (who had been involved in the operation) told us the inside story about lifting that worthless POS from Anglesey. The snatch team arrived in a very covert manner, so that no suspicions would be aroused, nabbed the bugger and were off the island in half a heartbeat. The tale was that some journos then turned up at the hotel where the SIB had been staying; the SIB were tipped off about this by the local police and simply vanished into the night...

Whether or not this may all have been a somewhat embroidered tale, I do not care to speculate. But score one for the good guys when Steadman was nicked!

[FJJP]

ISTR that he had a gorgeous sister, Alison, an accomplished actress.

[Pontius Navigator]

FJJP

Your wish:

Google Image Result for http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/content/images/2007/04/23/alison_steadman_396x222.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/content/images/2007/04/23/alison_steadman_396x222.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/people/alison_steadman_person_page.shtml&h=222&w=396&sz=16&tbnid=MKmWx_YLY2MyBM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalison%2Bsteadman%2Bpics&zoom=1&q=alison+steadman+pics&usg=__bUas8fMNkBTJWF6pLiN5BWvsF4M=&sa=X&ei=d56rTLz_LM2K4gaZxsHbBw&ved=0CB0Q9QEwAg)

[Tankertrashnav]

Oh PN you really have spoiled my day. Always been a huge Alison Steadman fan, and although I know its nothing to do with her, every time I see her in something now, I'll be reminded that her brother is a traitor. Surprised he only got 8 years - at that time there were some huge sentences handed down for espionage, I can only assume he was so inept he got credit for being an idiot.

Small point, nobody has ever been sentenced to 8 years for murder - it's always life. The fact that many get out on licence after 8 years or thereabouts is a different matter.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, not guilty yer 'oner, blame FJJP, I merely abetted.

[LowObservable]

FJJP and PN each win eleventy internetz for threadjacking awesomeness.

[LowObservable]

PN

"top stack at 510.. we saw lots of contrails but nothing at our level".

As the old joke ends: "I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you."

[tritanope]

I was at school with Al Steadman, who was a bit of a fantasist. How he got to be in charge of a Vulcan and, presumably, a big nuke, was a matter of amazement. We thought him dangerous with a pea-shooter. Sad he was so foolish as to try to sell secrets, even sadder that he was not weeded out before he got to try it on.

[moggiee]

ISTR that he had a gorgeous sister, Alison, an accomplished actress.
I remember seeing an edition of (I think) "Have I Got News For You" or some similar quiz show where the discussion somehow drifted around to the subject of the Dennis Potter drama "The Singing Detective" and particularly the scene in which Alison Steadman's character was getting a good seeing to in a field.

After a while, one of the panel (director Mike Leigh) chimed up with the immortal line:

"Oi you lot, that's my ex-wife you're talking about".

Priceless

(Apologies for extending the thread drift)

[Tankertrashnav]

When she was interviewed by Mark Lawson she described doing the scene in the forest, which she said was hyped out of all proportion, helped along by a predictably outraged Mary Whitehouse. As Ms Steadman said "all it was was a quick flash of a bloke's bum" (Patrick Malahide's in fact).

Returning vaguely to the thread, the upcoming V-Force Reunion (http://www.vforcereunion.co.uk/) is open to all who served on the V Force, as well as their families. I wonder if Alison would come along as my guest, or would that be tactless? Perhaps bruv had better stay away, though ;)

[Al R]

Interesting thread.

Nice to see her poodling about over Oakham yesterday.

[NutLoose]

There was a very good Discovery Prog showing how it would have gone to war...

XH558 will be at Bruntingthorpe BTW for the open day at the end of the month, where the Frightnings, Buccs Comet, Hunters, Canberra, Victor Nimrod, JP etc do their fast taxy displays down the runway...

Sun 29th - Cold War Jets Open Day

More details see............ Good day out if you like seeing them doing reheat runs and generally making a noise :p

Details here

Lightning Preservation Group Based at Bruntingthorpe Airfield near Leicester (http://www.lightnings.org.uk/)

[Blacksheep]

All this talk of security: around 1966 to 1969 Waddo NAAFI - a.k.a. "The Raven Club" was Eastern England's premier night club. The "Exercise Edom" that took place during the Bee Gees' performance was an interesting event. Most of the patrons were completely baffled - they didn't realise they were drinking and dancing in the middle of one of UK's premier nuclear bases.

On the other side of the fence, Their Airships didn't realise that one of their premier nuclear bases was a night club featuring international stars.

We were obliged to wind down the funds and spent most of them on a Grand Free Ball with Acker Bilk and Kenny Ball playing back to back sets on the main stage all night and entry ticket raffle prizes that included holidays, chest freezers, television sets and the like. The MOD took the rest and for those still at Waddington, your swimming pool was one outcome of the MOD's benefit.

...and its not true that the RAFP on QRA weren't armed with loaded weapons. Those on airfield patrol had their ammo wrapped up in plastic in their pocket. but those on QRA had them loaded. How do I know? We knicked his pistol off one of them while he was asleep.

[AR1]

We might have been packing a powder puff at the perimeter, but I can assure you our US collagues weren't titting about. - Or perhaps they were..

My Brother in law was USMC at a certain 'Facility' in the South West and got a visit from a pal at his Quarter just off Dustbin Alley. To cut a long story short, the chap left a grenade down the side of the settee.

BIL panicked.. and not wanting to dob his buddy in, discharged the granade off the cornish cliffs.. Sometime later the Yanks discover 'One of our granades is missing' the guilty bootneck coughs and says he's left it at BIL's house.. They drag him in, and he comes up with the unlikely but true story of how he disposed of it and subsequently was busted to PFC.

Yes they were definately armed AND dangerous.

Although the thing that tickles me about the disposal, was that although off duty, he got dressed up in his battle kit to throw it off the cliff..

[Art Field]

Had the doubtful privilage of doing the ACP once. Sat up there waiting for the magic word. The word, I discovered later was CURRANT but it was delivered very quickly by a lass with a strong Irish accent. Just quietly try it for yourself, would you relay it? Well we did not and initially our lord and masters got very upset but then they thought about it and changed the system.

[Pontius Navigator]

Art, aye, they didn't half pick 'em.

In one exercise they issued ONE envelope to the first crew with instructions that the rest of us were to log what we heard:

The scramble duly came and we all recorded APPLECART. At the debrief was we were shown the code word. At least the first two letters were the same:
APOCATHARY.

And an airborne authentication which we also received properly in morse:
BANDOLARO.

At least NOURISHMENT just before lunch was clearly understood. They switched to alphanumerics a bit later.

[Warmtoast]

re. Alastair Steadman

Press cuttings about his trial in 1975.

For you former Vulcan captains I like the final para of the second cutting!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/AlastairSteadman.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/AlastairSteadman2.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Warmtoast, thanks for those, very illuminating. I don't recall reading those. I do remember that he had supposedly tried to buy the chief constable of Lincolnshire's house in Harmston IIRC. The pay of a flt lt would not match the sort of house a chief constable might have had.

The report of special branch aspects are interesting. I seem to remember that the Russian embassy was as likely as not to have informed on him too in case he was an agent provocateur. As ex-RAF his half-life was going to be extremely short. They would much have prefered to develop their own in-place agents such as Brittain and Praguer where they could be developed and controlled.

[Nige321]

Steadman is back in the news (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/12/revealed-welsh-fighter-pilot-jailed-for-trying-to-sell-secrets-to-russians-uses-military-background-to-boost-his-business-91466-30310285/), obviously not twigging who his sister is...

[Dendmar]

Where did the rumour come from that Alison Steadman (actress) is Alastair Steadman's (spy) sister? If you research it there appears to be only a common surname. He came from Sussex and she Liverpool. Perhaps she has successfully expunged him, understandably.

[Tankertrashnav]

If it does turn out to be a myth (which I have to admit I always assumed to be the truth) I for one shall be delighted. Alison was and remains one of my favourite actresses, equally at home in a Mike Lee or Denis Potter play or Gavin & Stacey.

The kindest description of Alastair, on the other hand, is that he is a prat!

[sisemen]

It's fascinating to think that Steadman, almost certainly, was/is a member of PPRuNe as we all know you can't keep an ex RAF man away from this forum.

Wonder what his 'handle' is/was?

[Pontius Navigator]

Where did the rumour come from that Alison Steadman (actress) is Alastair Steadman's (spy) sister? If you research it there appears to be only a common surname. He came from Sussex and she Liverpool. Perhaps she has successfully expunged him, understandably.

Alastair Steadman is shown as registered Jul qtr 1941. His mother's maiden name was Aldrich. He appears to have a sister Wendy Jun qtr 1943 in Dartford.

Alison Steadman was registered in Liverpool in 1946 and her mother's maiden name was Evans. Her father's name was possibly George whereas Alastair's father was Charles.

QED

[Courtney Mil]

I think you'll find the identities of acting people might be a bit sensitive. What about attacking Russia instead?! :cool:

[Mach2a]

Not sure how I stumbled on this post, but it brought back some memories.

Al Steadman went through 4FTS and was posted to Lightnings.

He struggled on the 229 OCU Hunter pre-Lightning course as it was called in those days before getting an early chop at the Lightning OCU.

I recall a 226 OCU Lightning QFI expressing amazement that Al had negotiated his Mk2 Jaguar from Norwich to Coltishall.

Not sure if he even soloed on type.

Fast forward to January 2015 General Election campaign[UKIP delivered 'A Message from Patricia Culligan' leaflet to my home on the South Coast
Under the headline 'Miliband, Clegg and Cameron ...They aren't on our side '
Ms Culligan posed with a rather dapper gentleman outside a local NHS facility with the caption SAVE OUR NHS.
The gentleman in question is [99.9% certain] Mr Alastair Steadman!

Don't have a copy of the leaflet unfortunately.

[phil9560]

[QUOTE=Mach2a;10652085]Not sure how I stumbled on this post,


Ten days on the pop ?

[Kiltrash]

Way back in this thread is a bit where civies found their way into Cottesmore in 65 ish.
Well that happened to me in '73? . Was at Uni in Loughborough doing Aeronautical stuff and one weekend as the designated driver and 4 of us going to or from London ended up going through Cottesmore. Went through thr open gates and only twigged we were not meant to be here when we stopped outside a open hanger with Canberra.
While deciding how we get out up comes the Land Rover and escorts us out without even a warning or check. Got the feeling we were not the first to get lost.