Tactics, how would Vulcan attack USSR ?
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Tactics, how would Vulcan attack USSR ?
Hi Guys,
not seeking any classified info.
How would the Vulcan fleet have attacked Russia ? Would it have been in several formations, or would each one have taken different routes using ECM ?
I'm sure we would have got through, just as likewise they would have but I'm interested in the tactics we may have employed.
Cheers guys,
Coldair ( A Vulcan lover )
not seeking any classified info.
How would the Vulcan fleet have attacked Russia ? Would it have been in several formations, or would each one have taken different routes using ECM ?
I'm sure we would have got through, just as likewise they would have but I'm interested in the tactics we may have employed.
Cheers guys,
Coldair ( A Vulcan lover )
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Hi Coldair.
I know very little on this...Too young and no need to know etc, but you could always read up on how dummy attacks were made against the USA to get some idea on one way it could be done.
Getting there was one thing, but having any chance of getting home, or having a home to return to was another.
I know very little on this...Too young and no need to know etc, but you could always read up on how dummy attacks were made against the USA to get some idea on one way it could be done.
Getting there was one thing, but having any chance of getting home, or having a home to return to was another.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Coldair,
It is set out in Peter Hennesey's book, The Secret State, in which you will find diagrams etc.
Essentially the force would depart simultaneouly from its main and dispersal bases and would not form up in any form of formation. They would however generally concentrate in time and space to present a narror front when they penetrated the littoral defences. The idea would be to saturate the SAM and fighter system on a very narrow front which hopefully would achieve local air superiority during the penetration.
The USSR was well aware of this potential and attempted to plug any gaps it determined. On one occasion there was a gap of about 12 miles; they filled this gap with 2 SA3 batteries narrowing the gap to less than 5 miles. It was still assessed that the batteries would be shot-out before the bulk of the force squeezed through.
Although aircraft were given time-on-target to +/- 3 minutes there was no such timing constraint on the initial penetration; things would have been quite exciting.
It is set out in Peter Hennesey's book, The Secret State, in which you will find diagrams etc.
Essentially the force would depart simultaneouly from its main and dispersal bases and would not form up in any form of formation. They would however generally concentrate in time and space to present a narror front when they penetrated the littoral defences. The idea would be to saturate the SAM and fighter system on a very narrow front which hopefully would achieve local air superiority during the penetration.
The USSR was well aware of this potential and attempted to plug any gaps it determined. On one occasion there was a gap of about 12 miles; they filled this gap with 2 SA3 batteries narrowing the gap to less than 5 miles. It was still assessed that the batteries would be shot-out before the bulk of the force squeezed through.
Although aircraft were given time-on-target to +/- 3 minutes there was no such timing constraint on the initial penetration; things would have been quite exciting.
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PN/YS,
How was Special Wpn security maintained at these (I assume) quiet dispersal bases? If SW15 was maintained for up to 30 days at a stretch, where was the compromise made between a robust, physical security and a discrete, low profile?
How was Special Wpn security maintained at these (I assume) quiet dispersal bases? If SW15 was maintained for up to 30 days at a stretch, where was the compromise made between a robust, physical security and a discrete, low profile?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Al, in the 60s the requirement was for a single RAFP on each aircraft so there would be two continuously of duty on a 2 ac dispersal and 4 on a 4ac dispersal. At both dispersal and main base this would be agumented by airmen armed with pick axe handles.
In those days there was no acknowledged threat from Spetznaz or 5th columnist and airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.
In those days there was no acknowledged threat from Spetznaz or 5th columnist and airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 20th Sep 2010 at 13:11.
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airfield boundary fences were more suited to keeping stray sheep out than intruders.
Ah yes, Al R, but said RAFP would also have had a hungry woolly alligator, plus an SMG and probably a pistol as well with which to hold off the red hordes!
Just our luck to be allocated the 'shape' on a Strike Force Dispersal exercise once - we arrived at Finningley before the RAFP guards did. Playing the 2-man principle thing, we 2 pilots stayed in the cockpit whilst the 3 rear crew walked to the perimeter, then 2 of them came back on board leaving just 'Mongo', our Nav Radar, to fight off all comers with just his 9mm Browning, threatening voice and 'imposing presence'!
It really was a bit Dad's Army at times - but what fun times they were!
Although our gallant groundcrew, having once successfully nabbed an intruder, had to be advised that using locking wire to tie his thumbs to the chain-link fence whilst making him stand on tip-toe in his shreddies was perhaps taking things a bit too far!
Just our luck to be allocated the 'shape' on a Strike Force Dispersal exercise once - we arrived at Finningley before the RAFP guards did. Playing the 2-man principle thing, we 2 pilots stayed in the cockpit whilst the 3 rear crew walked to the perimeter, then 2 of them came back on board leaving just 'Mongo', our Nav Radar, to fight off all comers with just his 9mm Browning, threatening voice and 'imposing presence'!
It really was a bit Dad's Army at times - but what fun times they were!
Although our gallant groundcrew, having once successfully nabbed an intruder, had to be advised that using locking wire to tie his thumbs to the chain-link fence whilst making him stand on tip-toe in his shreddies was perhaps taking things a bit too far!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I also caught a 'dead' OC OPs, under his desk taking the telephone call from his wife.
Was never on bombers (by the way Coldair [a Vulcan lover] have you ever heard of Victors and Valiants, they were part of the V Force too?) but even on tankers there was one aspect of our war role which was highly classified.
Even at this distance in time I am unsure if this has now been declassified, so my natural inclination is to err on the safe side and say nothing. I dont expect regular updates from the MOD along the lines of "you can now talk about ..." but in general terms how do we know when it's safe to go public?
Even at this distance in time I am unsure if this has now been declassified, so my natural inclination is to err on the safe side and say nothing. I dont expect regular updates from the MOD along the lines of "you can now talk about ..." but in general terms how do we know when it's safe to go public?
One of the reasons for NOT declassifying stuff even years later is that in future you never know when you may be required to reinstigate plans like this.
No matter how stupid it seems there could always come a time in needing to do something like this. Letting the plans become public you may highlight a weakness that someone was unaware of and plugs.
Once you have allowed a strategy to become public knowledge someone may be able to guess latter stages by looking at what you have done in early stages.
No matter how stupid it seems there could always come a time in needing to do something like this. Letting the plans become public you may highlight a weakness that someone was unaware of and plugs.
Once you have allowed a strategy to become public knowledge someone may be able to guess latter stages by looking at what you have done in early stages.
Once you have allowed a strategy to become public knowledge someone may be able to guess latter stages by looking at what you have done in early stages.
Of course there is a strategy MGD - how else do you think things in the forces got this bad? We couldnt have screwed up this badly without a strategy!
Be careful mind, now you've started talking about strategy, you'll be getting ideas above your station and expecting to see a plan. My ROE allow for the use of deadly force in that eventuality (or rather, following MOD cutbacks, allow me to point a pistol at you, pull the trigger and watch as a big 'BANG' flag unfurls in your direction...)
Be careful mind, now you've started talking about strategy, you'll be getting ideas above your station and expecting to see a plan. My ROE allow for the use of deadly force in that eventuality (or rather, following MOD cutbacks, allow me to point a pistol at you, pull the trigger and watch as a big 'BANG' flag unfurls in your direction...)
but even on tankers there was one aspect of our war role which was highly classified.
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Taceval
When 204 (Shackleton) Sqn was based at Honington, we had the national SAR task, and so were "excused Taceval." The best bit was that during Taceval, the Officers' Mess bar was open 24 hours a day. Better still, it was the nominated 204 Sqn refuge!
How we loved Tacevals and Minivals (apart from the duty SAR Crew, of course.)
How we loved Tacevals and Minivals (apart from the duty SAR Crew, of course.)