auto take off ?

[ATC Watcher]

A question : many modern aircraft (and no so recent , eg. Caravelle and Trident) have autoland capabilities up to CAT3B. But does anyone knows if auto take off is (or will be ) available on recent types such as A380-B787 ?
In case negative, Does anyone knows if this has been tried with a commercial airliner recently ?
( I know NASA did use a 707 in the 80's for some unmanned tests, but I doubt the techology used then was very advanced)

[FE Hoppy]

L1011 was capable.

[Chesty Morgan]

And the 146, definitely unofficially and definitely definitely only in the sim and definitely definitely definitely wrong...apparently.

[ATCast]

Curious to know what the benefit of auto take-off would be..?
When would it be used?

[Trent 972]

A380 - Autopilot will not engage until 5 seconds after lift-off or 100 feet agl.

[STBYRUD]

The most reasonable application for it (if there is one) is a low visibility takeoff - guided by the localizer and possibly even using an (augmented) gps position...

[rudderrudderrat]

Hi FE Hoppy,

I was on the L1011 for 15 years but never knew about auto take off.
We could take off in 75m vis using ILS & PVD (para visual display) but couldn't even engage the FDs until AA (min 1,000 feet).

We could use Control Wheel Steering (CWS) for take off - but we never used it.

Which system did you have?

[EXWOK]

Given that we can take off in 75m RVR I'm at a loss to see the benefit.

Which I guess is why it's never been developed - no commercial benefit.

[Slasher]

Slightley off topic but wasnt there a type that if the AP was
engaged during the TO roll was capable of rotation/lift off
using the VS wheel? Mightve been the 707. Something about
a dual control column failure.

[fireflybob]

I suppose it depends what you mean by auto take off but also you have to consider the engine failure case etc. Would auto take off include auto reject before V1? Would it include automatic control with an engine failure after V1?

[Slasher]

Would auto take off include auto reject before V1? Would it include automatic control with an engine failure after V1?

If such a box was ever developed Id certainley pull the "auto reject" channel c/b before TO.

[ATC Watcher]

Curious to know what the benefit of auto take-off would be..?


Well, after almost every accident there are a few "Dr Stangelove" type engineers that run to propose automated ways to eliminate the problem.:rolleyes:

Wrong manual calculation/selections of Vspeeds , tail strikes and wrong runway/intersection take offs are some of the candidates used to justify the study.

Their argument is that the basic technology already exists (e.g used on the Global/Euro Hawk )

[411A]

...but couldn't even engage the FDs until AA (min 1,000 feet).

This could well have been a UKCAA limitation...not so on others that I have flown.
Normally, on the others, the FD is used for all takeoffs, unless of course company SOP's dictate otherwise.

[ATC Watcher]

Hi 411A ( greetings, long time ... Still flying the 10-11 ?)

Can you confirm that on the L1011 you can line up, engage the FD to T/O and the auto thottles will advance to the calculated power setting, aircraft will remain on centerline ( even with crosswind gusts) rotate at Vr at the correct angle and keep RWY heading until NAV is engaged ?
(Which is what the guys are promising)

[411A]

Can you confirm that on the L1011 you can line up, engage the FD to T/O and the auto thottles will advance to the calculated power setting, aircraft will remain on centerline ( even with crosswind gusts) rotate at Vr at the correct angle and keep RWY heading until NAV is engaged ?


No confirmation, as it wouldn't do any of those items you've mentioned, during the takeoff maneuver...well, at least the L1011's that I have flown, anyway.:}

And yes, still flying the type, from time to time.

[Spooky 2]

I believe the Air Force KC10 has/had auto takeoff capability. Not sure how it worked or if it was ever a standard practice. Do not know of any DC10's that had this feature.

[fattboy]

An aquaintance spoke to an Airbus rep recently about auto take offs. He was told they are looking at it for the 346-600 to prevent tailstrikes.

[latetonite]

I believe the 300 new toys from Michael O`lairy will have this feature..

[FCeng84]

Boeing does not offer automatic takeoff, but for the 777 and 787 flight control augmentation is active during takeoff to improve handling qualities. In the yaw axis both models provide augmented rudder control to reduce the airplane yaw response in the event of an engine failure. In the pitch axis the 777-300 and the 787 provide tail strike protection to reduce the likelihood of tailstrike for early or overly agressive rotations.

[Juan Tugoh]

Tony LeVeir was supposed to have carried out an Autotakeoff on the L1011 as a publicity stunt. The capability was never released to service, and details of exactly just how automatic the takeoff is open to debate.

I have a copy of an illustration of the Flight System that suggests that the auto part of the takeoff was CWS and SAS only. The accompanying text reads:

" The Avionic Flight Control System (AFCS) provides manual or automatic modes of control throughout the total flight envelope from take-off to landing."

I do have vague recollections - it was 11 years ago that I last flew a TriStar, that a more elegant solution through the autopilot, thrust management, ATS and VNAV was theoretically possible, but 411a is probably the expert here, he's the only one who seems to be still flying the old dinosaur.

[411A]

I have a copy of an illustration of the Flight System that suggests that the auto part of the takeoff was CWS and SAS only. The accompanying text reads:

" The Avionic Flight Control System (AFCS) provides manual or automatic modes of control throughout the total flight envelope from take-off to landing."

As stated, this is absolutely correct...and I know the folks that proved the concept, and completed the flight trials.

TriStar...so very far ahead of its time...younger folks would be simply amazed.
Or....not:{

[Mr Optimistic]

As you are paying the guys up front, may as well get them to do some work surely: least they could do is take off.

[411A]

I have a copy of an illustration of the Flight System that suggests that the auto part of the takeoff was CWS and SAS only. The accompanying text reads:

" The Avionic Flight Control System (AFCS) provides manual or automatic modes of control throughout the total flight envelope from take-off to landing."

As stated, this is absolutely correct...and I know the folks that proved the concept, and completed the flight trials.

TriStar...so very far ahead of its time...younger folks would be simply amazed.
Or....not:{
TriStar, the first with dual/dual automatic approach/land capability...and still considered in a class of its own.
IE: the GOLD standard...of which others try...and just now, equal.
Thirty years later.:ok:

OMG, shock,horror.:E