Parking Etiquette

[danger85]

G'day all,

Just after the general consensus out there re parking etiquette. Here's the scenario:

You are flying into a country aerodrome, that has no reserved parking. There are a number of local operators, operating out of the strip with limited sealed parking available. The operators leave their tie downs, tagged to identify the owners of the tie downs, in their typical parking spot when they are out on flights. When you arrive that spot is the only space available on the main parking apron do you;

a) Park there anyway as there is no reserved parking, and what right do they have to "reserve" a space, or;

b) Park elsewhere respecting the local operators, even though it may require pegs to be put down for your tie downs away from the main sealed parking area.

Cheers
Danger

[bogdantheturnipboy]

I think b)

[boltz]

B!!!
I hate it when someone takes my spot!!

[girl with a stick]

I usually park up outside a school/operator and then go inside and ask for advice...

[Wally Mk2]

Good air-man-ship is gained by asking so good on you for asking:D

As has been said take option B if possible but if the grass is soaked as it would be here in Vic of late I'd say park in some ones else spot & go seek out whom the operator is & be professional about it. I would very much appreciate it if some one came up to me & mentioned they had parked in my spot due no other place & asked for their advice. We all fly in the same airspace& that extends to where we start & finish :-)

While I have the floor here. Some free education for those learning.
I often am parked at country dromes in the course of my work (Air Ambo) & the amount of times some pilot newbies (not always newbies either I'd say) complete often with instructor aboard taxis right next to my ship whilst we are loading/unloading a patient with lots of equip around inc non aviation personal
& commence engine run ups with the obvious problem for us. Noise & wind.
A C172 is bad enough but a C210 for Eg is shear stupidity!
It flaws/floors(for the spelling police:)) me that the instructors allow this especially when some dromes have large sealed aprons far from where we are parked where a run up could be completed. I could list a few here but I won't I only hope that at least one pilot gets the message & conducts & learns airmanship & becomes a more respectful pilot. This is not a gripe it's more about education, some things you do NOT learn from books.:ok:



Wmk2


Wmk2

[Damien1989]

Just flew around Australia. As everyone has said either go and ask someone, or b). Simple.

[VH-XXX]

Be careful making assumptions. The "country" strip may be privately owned and it might be their paid parking spot.

[Squeaks]

So how long is the 'reserved space' going to be empty? An hour? A day? A week?

Common sense dictates to park in the safest spot available on arrival (keeping clear of terminal spots and taxiways) then find a local to sort out a long term solution. It may be that the aircraft is gone for a week, problem solvered :ok:

[magnum pi]

Hearing you Wally...
Having been working out of Canberra lately, and on those cold mornings (brass monkey stuff) where a few plonkers sit in the parking area at the GA warming their engines for 10 min then blasting me and my mount with freezing wind while they do run ups.... :ugh:
The smart ones use the area near the avgas bowser...

As for parking... def "B". Try asking for help (jump start or lift into town) from the local operator after you have "pissed them off" by flogging one of their spots !

Magnum

[kingRB]

My general rule is if you are an itinerant / visitor anywhere (without any other special circumstances which would warrant otherwise), what makes you think you have any right to a sealed / premo spot?

So its a definite B for me. Respect and airmanship for the locals.

[girl with a stick]

Good air-man-ship

Wally, in my case, is it good air-girl-ship?

:ok: GWAS

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

1) Ask someone what the story is re parking on that particular aerodrome.

2) If the spot is not formally "Reserved" then (a) - but use your own tie downs! :E

You pay the same fees and charges as the locals.

Dr :8

[Clearedtoreenter]

You pay the same fees and charges as the locals.


Or quite posibly more..

Gets right up my nose when the locals think they can dissappear for days but reserve 'their' place in a public parking area by leaving their tie down ropes in place. Most unwelcoming and unfriendly to visitors, who just want to park in a public area on a first come basis.. a!! but whatever you do dont use their ropes - all sorts of things can happen to your plane during the night

PS Are you talking about somehwere in particular? Maybe somewhere up your way starting with B?

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Wally, in my case, is it good air-girl-ship?

Not sure I'd ask Wally - look further up the thread and you'll find that when sensing a feeling of surprise, he feels 'flawed' :-)

UTR

[Wally Mk2]

..................plz don't beat me girl, with a stick:-) Gotta explain that one to us some time:) Okay for the record it's Air-person-ship, or Air-ship-person:-)

'magnum' I hear ya too:-) Try doing a daily at 6am when it's around zero out there on the black stuff & the damn Helimed or copper chopper is running up.................talk about numb everything!:sad:

Here's a great Eg of how some pilots just don't think!
Was at a small Vic country drome some time ago now & upon arrival on an urgent task I found a twin (so obviously no 50 hr pvt pilot at the wheel) sitting there all locked up right in front of the "Air Ambulance parking are & signed as such".There was simply no other place to park the old Beech without blocking his escape path to the rwy so I had no choice but to park in front of him disembark the Med team & leave for the hospital. I quickly left a note under the cabin door handle with my Mob Ph No on it & left with the team. (there was ample parking in the GA parking area BTW for this guy/gal)
A few hrs latter we returned not having heard from the guy only to find the offending plane gone !!!!! To this day beats me how he/she got it out !!! Just an Eg of the lack of air-man-ship/air-girl-ship about:ugh:


Wmk2

[propblast]

Or, C, call ahead to find out where to park.

Im yet to meet an operator that won't happily advise a fellow pilot on parking areas over the phone. Most are often only to happy to pass on any local knowledge that may make your visit alot easier and less stressful.

Then there is also the pilot that manages to shut down right in the middle of the very small parking area available when you are following them in.

Having experienced on many occasions someone parking in my tie downs with varying results. Sometimes its a quick wave to say sorry and start up and move, to them getting in the car and driving off:ugh:, to having aircraft blocked from parking spots during/at the end of a days flying.

Lets not get started on pilots that park in front the fuel bowser. Warriors are hardly a difficult aircraft to pull forward (most singles and a couple of light twins in fact). I could go on and on about airpersonship:p, but I'll leave the rant there.

[PyroTek]

I have a few personal experiences:
Coffs Harbour, I went to the GA parking, found the spots seemingly reserved, got out the pegs and tied down on the grass, no harm done :)

Townsville: I went to the GA parking area, looked around, and parked in between a few propless Bonanza's. - They won't be moving for a while, I don't think.

Hervey Bay, Towards the end of the parking area, near the vehicle gates (opposite end to the terminal) - Hervey Bay Aero Club supplies tiedown ropes etc. for anyone to use :ok:

However, with Coffs, and a few others, I just called and asked, very helpful... should all be in ERSA :p

[spirax]

Sorry for the thread drift, but can't help it...

Respect and airmanship for the locals.

GWAS... sorry but airmanship is one of those no sexist words which uses "man" as in mankind, not as in male or female.:)

I greatly respect the right of ladies to use what term/s they are comfortable with in this new age, however there are some where the old words are unisex if you like and should continued to be used without modification to show the person is female. I suggest it is not relevant.

The Captain of a ship or aeroplane is the "Captain" even if a lady. The Captain of a ship is also referred to as the Master, as they obtain a "masters certificate" when qualified. I don't believe you will ever find a ships "mistress" on the bridge!!:hmm:

Thread drift OFF

As for the parking: Well you have to use a bit of common sense, some examples of which has been covered already. However (b) is a good bet till you obtain some local advice.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

As someone who has been on the ground side of things in the past if I ever saw tiedown ropes etc that had been left behind to "reserve" a park they would be confiscated as they consititute a FOD hazard. Same goes for operators leaving half tyres etc behind to mark their pegs/stakes. Gone! Nothing (however minor) should be left on an apron area that could endanger another operator.

[VH-XXX]

Wal, almost sounds like u r talking about that dark colored twin that often parks at West Sale.........

[danger85]

Cheers Guys (and Gals),

Interesting to see the general opinion out there. Most seem to agree with b) which is what my opinion was, with a few others throwing in a few worthy points along the way. Said tie downs are only left when returning at the end of the day so not hogging a spot that won't be used overnight, or for a couple of days. At least now I know it's not just me being too overly precious about it. Always been suitable alternatives at the aerodrome in question, when its happened.

Danger

[Nadsy]

Yes, good question, and good points above, namely... call ahead, or ask when you're there. It would be nice, like someone said, if there was more in the ERSA (local parking info, bowser locations etc...). Would also be nice if ropes weren't left around for the props to munch up... but C'est la vie.

On another point made in this post relating to airmanship, doing run-ups at Canberra can be the source of ramp rage and obscene hand gestures.

a) Obviously you don't do your run-ups on the grass (A/C parked close behind and plenty of stones etc...);
b) If the winds are favourable, I try to pull up in the corner near the bowser after fueling and do the run-ups there, but it's still not completely out of the way, and 9 times out of 10 you've got a westerly (which isn't favourable to that position);
c) On a weekend (particularly Sunday), the hard-stand (which is where you're supposed to do you're run-ups), is full with resting RPT A/C, and the spots further back from the bowser end, which are roomier and better suited for run-up's aren't available.

So what do you do? Unfortunately it's just one of those things. Hold on to your ailerons and cover your eyes for two minutes (there aren't too many stones), and we can all get on with our day (airmanship works both ways I suppose). It would be awesome if Canberra had a couple of small GA run-up area's closer to the runways (especially when it's hot, and you're taxiing for 5 mins).

Cheers.

Nads.

[Old Akro]

My biggest annoyance are the guys who fly in, taxy for fuel and then leave the aircraft parked in front of the bowser while they go for coffee, a leak or something else that is nowhere in sight of their aeroplane. Seems to be worst at Mildura.

Parking can be hard to figure and I think its nice to ask even if the situation looks clear. But, if I arrive near dusk and there's no one around and I'm leaving again early then there's a fair bet that any vacant spot will be OK. At the other end, if I'm there for a few days I'll either have rung ahead to sort out parking or seek someone out to ask.

[j3pipercub]

Defnitely B,

You parked in my space, which was reserved, you will have your tie downs padlocked with a little note that leads you on a scavenger hunt for the key, Usually took about 15 minutes, and the lock would normally be taken, but it was worth it to see these inconsiderate morons walking from one end of the apron to the other.

Alternatively, it is not uncommon for the visiting aircraft who couldn't be ar5ed to ask if it was ok would find themselves hopelessly parked in due to a shortage of spaces...sorry...

but whatever you do dont use their ropes - all sorts of things can happen to your plane during the night

If you're one of those rude pr1cks that do use someone else's tie downs, then perhaps you deserve it. Define all sorts of things? I know that my tie downs used to have an aversion to any other aircraft except mine, they would untie themselves and work their way back to my aircraft, extraordinary!!!

j3

[mcgrath50]

Although I would never upset the status quo and always will ask first (it's polite and good airmanship as stated), when parking is not reserved, what gives someone the right to reserve a space? Not a criticism as such just trying to understand as I don't often leave my aircrafts home aerodrome (where they have reserved spaces).

[kimwestt]

If there isn't a Mistress on the bridge, how about a Ships' Madam on the bridge?

[kimwestt]

A few years ago, in the Kimberley's, a youngish pilot parked their aircraft near the hangar that had our aircraft parked inside. The following day, not long before we were due to depart, said youngish pilot departed, along with runups with the prop wash directly into the hangar.
Result - one 4 week old, brand new windscreen, sand blasted, which had to be replaced before the next flight. For f----s sake !!!
For Ch----s sake, have a look where you have parked. As you walk away from your aircraft, turn around and have a look where you have parked, and the surrounding area, and ask yourself, is it safe, will I do any damage when I start up, etc etc.
Please have a really, really, good look at where your prop wash will end up when you do your runups.
Oh yes, and it cost the said pilot some $5000 - and that was a good few years ago.
Chocks away chaps!!

[girl with a stick]

Spirax, chill...and no need to be sorry...

GWAS... sorry but airmanship is one of those no sexist words which uses "man" as in mankind, not as in male or female.

It was a playful little joke, aimed at Wally. I'm well aware that aviation is no place for rabid feminism, and I'm quite happy to be called an airman in the air, and a minxtress on the ground ...

:ok: GWaS

[topend3]

It is common courtesy to call ahead and check, and I can advise from an aerodrome operator's perspective it's extremely annoying when aircraft turn up out of the blue, expecting to find a spot to park with no prior notice.

[YPJT]

Topend3, yup and the problem is made worse when you have an apron / parking area the size of a postage stamp :ok:. Once had what seemed half of the Australian bonanza fleet turn up unannounced. Luckily we were on hand to help double park them into some tight areas.

[Jabawocky]

Or go to Charleville, they fuel you up, feed you....and sometimes put you in the hanger....or plenty of tie down spots!

Talking to a fellow from Parkes yesterdat while hanging around YNBR......he and his wife just travelled for 3 weeks all over Northern Oz.....comment was YBCV is the best place for visitors. Can't agree more! :ok:

[BEACH KING]

Neither (A) or (B) is the correct answer.
The correct answer is to ask someone. Any place where there is no one around to ask, will have plenty of empty parking spots.
By asking, people will respect that you have taken the time.. and shown courtesy to try and do something that will not inconvenience others.

I have often ended up parking overnight in someone's nice hangar,
simply by asking where It was OK to park, and having a good yarn to the
locals.
The "I pay the same charges/They don't own the place/" attitude is simply bad manners.

[NOSIGN]

Tell you a story...

large regional public airfield, plenty of spaces... needed an overnight spot on a hardstand, no-body to ask, parked in a particular spot close to the gate - no reserve parking at this particular place.

Next morning - Pilot door torn at the hinge.

Police investigation - nada albeit with a suspect.

I'll select B unless I'm sleeping in the back!