BBMF

[Saintsman]

Quite a good article on the Mail website about the BBMF.

How the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight keeps spitfires and Lancasters in the air | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1302264/How-Battle-Britain-Memorial-Flight-keeps-spitfires-Lancasters-air.html)

[johnfairr]

Wouldn't be too bad an article except for the "Spitfire pilots scrambling during the Battle of Britain" picture which shows Mk1 Hurricanes with two-bladed props . . . . . Probably pre-May 1940! :(:(

[Blighter Pilot]

I think that if BBMF comes in for the chop post-SDSR then we might as well call it a day for the whole RAF.

BBMF is a permanent memorial to those brave airman and support staff who made the ultimate sacrifice during WWII as well as a reminder to all of the potency of air power.

This year is the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain - surely a timely reminder for the government, chiefs of staff and the SDSR team.

'Lest We Forget'

[Dysonsphere]

Very good article never heard of the requirement to cross main roads at 90` for the Lanc.

[Trim Stab]

'The BBMF costs between £2.5 and £3 million to run, so you can get three of us for one Jonathan Ross,' says Squadron Leader Jeff Hesketh

very good quote - very true and made me laugh.

[vecvechookattack]

I think that if BBMF comes in for the chop post-SDSR then we might as well call it a day for the whole RAF.

It will be sad to see the end of the BBMF. I always look forward to seeing them at various air shows throughout the year. However, I think that if the RAF feel that they can no longer fund the BBMF then that won't be the end of it. Hopefully it will become a charity and we can all chip in to help it.

[soddim]

It will be sad to see the end of the BBMF

Pleased to note that it is not scheduled to happen.

For the word 'will' substitute 'would be'.

However, I like your sentiment - although I would use stronger language if our elected body could no longer see fit to remember not only the sacrifices made but also how perilously close we came to defeat because they neglected to provide sufficient resources for a strong peacetime air force.

[Mike7777777]

"> One problem Hawkins and his planners have to take into account is that the Lancaster isn't permitted to fly parallel to motorways or main roads, but must cross straight over them. The aircraft nowadays flies no higher than 1,000ft, and it's liable to cause accidents as drivers stare at it rather than at the road <"

How true!

[dope05]

well if it comes to a toss up between XH558 and the BBMF as a possible charity, I know I'll be contributing to the BBMF, even though I have given to the Vulcan in the past.

quote>

"> One problem Hawkins and his planners have to take into account is that the Lancaster isn't permitted to fly parallel to motorways or main roads, but must cross straight over them. The aircraft nowadays flies no higher than 1,000ft, and it's liable to cause accidents as drivers stare at it rather than at the road <"

Is this the same rules that caused the Vulcan to miss the runway at Stanley?

:E

[Lima Juliet]

"> One problem Hawkins and his planners have to take into account is that the Lancaster isn't permitted to fly parallel to motorways or main roads, but must cross straight over them. The aircraft nowadays flies no higher than 1,000ft, and it's liable to cause accidents as drivers stare at it rather than at the road <"

How true!

What drivel!

I flew 3 seasons on the Lanc on BBMF and used line features for IP to TGT runs all of the time!

LJ:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

We used to fly around 1000 feet too simply because we were map reading from point to point. At the time the Tacan had a coupling error so was always 40 deg out.

We could have gone higher but there was no point. As for speed OTOH we once did 250 kts from Colt to Gaydon but that was when most large airfield had a BoB day on the same day in September. It served as a marker to the public; they knew when there should be an airshow or the airshow reminded them of BoB.

Now air shows are simply a summer day's outing.

[vecvechookattack]

well if it comes to a toss up between XH558 and the BBMF as a possible charity,

Surely, they should both be charities. The public purse shouldn't be expected to pay for them.

[Stitchbitch]

VVHA Why shouldn't the public purse pay for something the public want? I'm pretty sure that the 'save BBMF' petition had more than a few names to it earlier this year, and the cost of operating the flight is very cheap compared some other public attractions. Guess you have never been to an event where BBMF appear, as If you had you'd probably not be speaking such Blasphemy :E

[Mike7777777]

Quote:
"> One problem Hawkins and his planners have to take into account is that the Lancaster isn't permitted to fly parallel to motorways or main roads, but must cross straight over them. The aircraft nowadays flies no higher than 1,000ft, and it's liable to cause accidents as drivers stare at it rather than at the road <"

How true!
What drivel!

I flew 3 seasons on the Lanc on BBMF and used line features for IP to TGT runs all of the time!?? The BBMF aeroplanes are always a distraction, driving or not, the aircrew have been bit players for many years ...

Edit: quotes .. give up.

[newswatcher]

The flight is making a tour of the South today, overflying a number of BoB stations. The BBMF internet site does not give detail of route. Can anyone help me with this? I understand that part of the route includes flying from Reading down towards the South Coast. I am hoping that it will pass close to Basingstoke, where I live! Many thanks!:D

[tilleydog1]

Hi Newswatcher,

try this link:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/rafcms/mediafiles/84AE84B8_5056_A318_A83F2C67BE961698.pdf

[Mandator]

The plot changed! They did this morning's bit yesterday and night stopped at North Weald. They overflew Duxford 30 mins ago and departed - they didn't land as scheduled. I presume they are flying the rest of the morning schedule up to the Biggin Hill stop a bit early. No doubt they will stick to the planned times for the London overflight.

Things at Duxford seemed a bit exciting judging by the radio traffic - they were formating on an Aztec of all things, with another Aztec standing off, presumably with press and TV cameras. Pity about the Aztec - spoiled the picture for me.

[newswatcher]

Thanks tilleydog1. Didn't see that link! Looks like they are going over Odiham, then Lasham, on the way down. Guess I will have to make a short drive but, with the weather conditions here now, hope it's worth it!

:ok:

[NutLoose]

Seen this....... :) seems to have made someones day at least.

FLYER Forums &bull; View topic - Intercepted by Military Fighters (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65446)

[Wensleydale]

Surely, they should both be charities. The public purse shouldn't be expected to pay for them.


VVCH,

Does this mean that we should also add HMS Victory to the list, or sell it to the owners of Alton Towers?:rolleyes:

No, I thought not.

[camelspyyder]

Wensleydale - dont bother.

I can't find a book definition of "Naval Troll" - one who lives under a bridge I guess, but he's a fisherman and puts bait out for light blue fish every day - and the RAF always bite...

Lucky sod lives in the south west - you'd think that would be entertaining enough.

Ignore him and he might go away.

CS:)

[Pontius Navigator]

CS, and who pays for the Navy Historics, or the Army ones come to that?

Then there are the falling fools who are Service funded but also charge for displays.

[pontifex]

Hey Pontius, what's with this Tacan business? Never had it in my day. Nasty modern invention which gave the purists no end of grief. My version of Tacan was Tony Down or Bob Burden standing behind me clutching a quarter mil. The compass was original and not accurate to within 20 degrees mostly. As for flying at 1000ft - forget it! Those were the days.

[airborne_artist]

'Before you get into the Hurricane or Spitfire, you need to train on tail-draggers - aeroplanes with two main wheels at the front and a tail wheel at the back. You can't see immediately forward as you land, so you land using your peripheral vision, looking out the side. Doing that in the Chipmunk teaches you the skill.'

Some of us wouldn't need to re-train for this ;)

[NutLoose]

airborne_artist

Some of you still remember wing warping :p

[airborne_artist]

and "Jump John, Jump" :E

[Pontius Navigator]

I said we had tacan, I didn't say we used it :)

Apart from instruments we had no other nav aids except the dirft sight and map reading. Gee and Rebecca were not installed. At that time we also had limited pneumatics with the bomb doors locked shut.

One of the Eng Os asked me if we would like the bomb doors to work and I said it would be a nice to nice to have option. Also after I broke the astrodome they made a fairing to cover the hole. At one airshow this chap came and asked where the astrodome was. He then said his company did perspex mouldings and offered to replace all the mouldings for the cockpit for free.

At the time there was a blister panel on the starboard side for the nav to look down for pinpoints. The new persex also had a blister on the port side too as he thought there should have been one on each side.

[Pontius Navigator]

The compass was original and not accurate to within 20 degrees mostly.

I had to swing that compass once when it came out of the shed. It was miles out and the corrections just did not work. The East-West/2 to give an average correction didn't work.

Had the error on east been 3 degrees left and west 3 degrees right then the correction of 1.5 would have been OK. The reading on east was actually 60 degrees in error one way and on west of the same order so that the correction was about 1 degree but did nowt for the compasses.

The error of course was trying to apply basic compass swing methology to a compass that was grossly inaccurate. This Jengo wandered up and asked how I was getting on. Not very well. I explained the problem an dhe asked if I had tried a Sperry swing. No.

He explained it and I followed that procedure and our final accuracy was well under 5 degrees.

[Lima Juliet]

TACAN? I seem to remember a DME but no TACAN. I did however, find a VOR that was squirrelled away in a drop down panel above the Nav's station on my second to last trip on the old girl!!!

Map, compass, stopwatch and a GPS that gives track and groundspeed for cross-check; never missed a display and was never early/late in 3 years (apart from a Medivac Helo getting in the way or bad weather) :ok:

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

The tacan display was mounted tdc above the instrument panel. Somewhere in the archives I may find the photo provided the other nav wasn't standing in front of it.

[Lima Juliet]

Here you go. Is that the TACAN display you're talking about on top of the coaming?
http://www.flyingzonedirect.com/newimages/screenshots/pa474cockpit.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Leon, that is where the Tacan unit was but the other instruments were not, nor, IIRC was the second control column.

That we only had a single control column was what almost led to the loss of the aircraft 40 years ago. The Tacan was clearly removed as the aircraft was restored to nearer museum quality. It now has a mid-upper; we didn't have a mid-upper in those days.

[Lima Juliet]

PN

I've just looked at my old Pilot's Notes and the dial with L/R on it is the DF Indicator and the dial on the right is the Dead Reckoning Repeater Compass. I rather suspect you're right on the modification front as I don't recall a TACAN, but I do recall a modern VOR (as I said I discovered in a drop down panel) and a DME. I wonder if it has anything to do with a Lanc not having 115v 400Hz power supply that most TACANs require?

I don't know if the old girl had an inverter fitted at some point?

LJ :ok: