Maintaining Seperation-Bonehead Position Reports

[pohm1]

I've heard it many times before, but to hear it from a Qantas pilot into Karratha this week was very suprising....

"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"

If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
:ugh:

P1

[Mr.Buzzy]

Seperation

mmmyeees..... is that you "Bonehead"?

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[pohm1]

:rolleyes:

[Fark'n'ell]

"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"

If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!

Has daylight saving been considered.

[GreenerGrass]

Won't matter soon with new Class D:
"Qantas 737 inbound, all aircraft remain on the ground or outside controlled airpsace" :)
You'll need to carry full fuel for those Rankin flights ;)

[pohm1]

after all it was a Qantas pilot....surely he has priority

Is that a joke? I may only be a helicopter pilot, but Im sure priority doesn't go to those on a 5nm final?

[Capt Claret]

Nearly as surprising as the QF guy this morning, advertising on ML CTR that they'd "maintain FLxxx until passed VH-ABC on TCAS".

...after all it was a Qantas pilot....surely he has priority...

Pohm1, I wonder if you missed the sarcastic inflection?

[pohm1]

Perhaps.......:O

P1

[lilflyboy262]

Sucks if you have a digital watch as well :(

[ivan ellerbai]

how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
:ugh:

P1

Oh, that's SO straightforward.

12 o'clock is always ahead of you, 6 o'clock is always to your rear. Now, considering where some of those wallah's reckon the sun shines from, then the 12 o'clock position is always pointed directly away from the sun. You only need to look at the direction of the shadows to see where his 12 o'clock is and the rest is easy.

[Keg]

pohm, did said QF aircraft give an inbound report? Did they give indications as to their tracking? Did you know where they were or where they'd come from?

Whilst on the one hand I can see the point of calling it a bonehead report if you don't know where they are but I'd be surprised if that was the only information broadcast. I suspect that you'd probably know what their general heading was and roughly where they were coming from so them referring to you in their 11 perhaps gives more clues than it appears from your tale. Perhaps your own SA could also do with a bit of work? :E

Of course, there remains the possibility that the crew also thought 'doh' immediately after saying that too. :rolleyes:

[Capt Claret]

Of course, there remains the possibility that the crew also thought 'doh' immediately after saying that too

Been there, done that. :\

[Angle of Attack]

If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
Yeah they are facing away from Karratha! haha! Its pretty obvious they are inbound mate so if you know they are inbound from which direction I would say its good info!


Are you saying their initial call was

"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"

I don't think so, I am sure there were previous broadcasts, and if you know their inbound radial I would say it gives information actually. Just stay below 500ft mate youll be right!@

[pohm1]

Maybe it was a case of "Doh," but please don't try and tell me that in any circumstance, giving a clue as to your position with reference to your own position is best practice?

P1

[Skynews]

Come on get real, whether the QF pilot advised his inbound tracking details prior to this call or not, it is not an ideal way of advising another aircraft of where to look. It does not provide the best solution for situational awareness.

If I make an inbound call to Mt Gambier and then subsequently advised I was 15 nm at 6 o'clock Mt Gambier, you would consider that acceptable, I don't think so.

Along a similar vein, pilots who report inbound or tracking to some obscure location that only. a local would recognise might need a rethink.

[pohm1]

The clock face method is a highly effective way of instantly giving other traffic an idea of where to look, but as I posted earlier, there is little gained by referencing it from your own position.

'nuff said.

P1

[Capt Fathom]

It's a tough audience out there tonight!

Just glad I don't make those embarrassing calls and have to suffer the wrath of pprune. :uhoh:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

The clock face method is a highly effective way of instantly giving other traffic an idea of where to look


How does that work again?

12 o'clock = somewhere above me
6 o'clock = somewhere below me
3 o'clock = out to my right hand (starboard) side
9 o'clock = out to me left hand (port) side
etc
etc
etc

OK? :E

Dr :8

[pohm1]

FRDK

50% right :ok:

P1

[Toruk Macto]

OMG ! Lucky Aus has big skies and only a few A/C ! :eek:

[psycho joe]

The clock face method is a highly effective way of instantly giving other traffic an idea of where to look,

Seeing as qantas pilots are the centre of the universe, a good start would be to stare at the sun. Or if it's dark - triangulation by the other heavenly bodies. Failing that there's tea leaves. I hope that helps.

[LeadSled]

FTDK,
Not ex-Navy by any chance, are you ??
Perhaps we should adopt Navy "points" as SOP??
Tootle pip!!

[Tinstaafl]

Naval: "I'm in your 8 bells."

Can't see it working too well, myself.

[Keg]

pohm, I ask you a few questions about the previous communications on this event and you don't respond. Instead you deflect and ask whether it's 'best practise'.

I agree that it's probably not but offer the possibility that the crew realised their error- as Claret points out we've all been there. If they did it may have rated a quick discussion on the ground between the crew. Despite assertions to the contrary, QF drivers are known to just every now and then dissect their own performance.

However, I note here that there is no acknowledgement on your part that perhaps you could have utilised the information provided to ascertain the position of the QF aircraft- not that you've provided any information as to that side of the story anyway. That perhaps it's your own SA that could do with some work here as well as the comm skills of the QF aircraft. I guess that log in your own eye doesn't stop you from pointing out the log in eye of every QF driver.

Have a nice day. :}

PS: 'You're in my 11 o'clock' is a valid call if you're doing 100 knots and I'm doing 200 and I know which way you're going and you know which way I'm going. Of course, that requires your SA to be pretty good. Was it?

[Monopole]

I think using the clock face is a more then acceptable practice. But, in this particular case with the QF pilots having been visual with the chopper, it may have been better for the QF crew to say something more along the line of "we are in your xx o'clock".

[peuce]

Thank God the Tower is going in there ... to sort out you blokes and your funny clocks!

[desmotronic]

have to be a space cadet who's probably never been octa before to say something so stupid

[Monopole]

Thank God the Tower is going in there ... to sort out you blokes and your funny clocks Like a story I heard once (can't remember where I read it/heard it).....

TWR: ABC what exaclty is your position
ABC: We are in your 12 o'clock
TWR: You are all in my 12 o'clock, depending on which window I am looking through.

Or something along those lines. :E