Maintaining Seperation-Bonehead Position Reports
Thread Starter
Maintaining Seperation-Bonehead Position Reports
I've heard it many times before, but to hear it from a Qantas pilot into Karratha this week was very suprising....
"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"
If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
P1
"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"
If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
P1
Last edited by pohm1; 24th Jul 2010 at 08:15.
YPKA
Won't matter soon with new Class D:
"Qantas 737 inbound, all aircraft remain on the ground or outside controlled airpsace"
You'll need to carry full fuel for those Rankin flights
"Qantas 737 inbound, all aircraft remain on the ground or outside controlled airpsace"
You'll need to carry full fuel for those Rankin flights
Thread Starter
after all it was a Qantas pilot....surely he has priority
Bottums Up
Nearly as surprising as the QF guy this morning, advertising on ML CTR that they'd "maintain FLxxx until passed VH-ABC on TCAS".
Pohm1, I wonder if you missed the sarcastic inflection?
...after all it was a Qantas pilot....surely he has priority...
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how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
P1
P1
12 o'clock is always ahead of you, 6 o'clock is always to your rear. Now, considering where some of those wallah's reckon the sun shines from, then the 12 o'clock position is always pointed directly away from the sun. You only need to look at the direction of the shadows to see where his 12 o'clock is and the rest is easy.
Nunc est bibendum
pohm, did said QF aircraft give an inbound report? Did they give indications as to their tracking? Did you know where they were or where they'd come from?
Whilst on the one hand I can see the point of calling it a bonehead report if you don't know where they are but I'd be surprised if that was the only information broadcast. I suspect that you'd probably know what their general heading was and roughly where they were coming from so them referring to you in their 11 perhaps gives more clues than it appears from your tale. Perhaps your own SA could also do with a bit of work?
Of course, there remains the possibility that the crew also thought 'doh' immediately after saying that too.
Whilst on the one hand I can see the point of calling it a bonehead report if you don't know where they are but I'd be surprised if that was the only information broadcast. I suspect that you'd probably know what their general heading was and roughly where they were coming from so them referring to you in their 11 perhaps gives more clues than it appears from your tale. Perhaps your own SA could also do with a bit of work?
Of course, there remains the possibility that the crew also thought 'doh' immediately after saying that too.
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by Keg
Of course, there remains the possibility that the crew also thought 'doh' immediately after saying that too
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If I don't know where you are, how the f#*k do I know which way your clock is facing!
Are you saying their initial call was
"We have you visual, you're in my 11 o'clock"
Thread Starter
Maybe it was a case of "Doh," but please don't try and tell me that in any circumstance, giving a clue as to your position with reference to your own position is best practice?
P1
P1
Last edited by pohm1; 24th Jul 2010 at 12:03.
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Come on get real, whether the QF pilot advised his inbound tracking details prior to this call or not, it is not an ideal way of advising another aircraft of where to look. It does not provide the best solution for situational awareness.
If I make an inbound call to Mt Gambier and then subsequently advised I was 15 nm at 6 o'clock Mt Gambier, you would consider that acceptable, I don't think so.
Along a similar vein, pilots who report inbound or tracking to some obscure location that only. a local would recognise might need a rethink.
If I make an inbound call to Mt Gambier and then subsequently advised I was 15 nm at 6 o'clock Mt Gambier, you would consider that acceptable, I don't think so.
Along a similar vein, pilots who report inbound or tracking to some obscure location that only. a local would recognise might need a rethink.
Thread Starter
The clock face method is a highly effective way of instantly giving other traffic an idea of where to look, but as I posted earlier, there is little gained by referencing it from your own position.
'nuff said.
P1
'nuff said.
P1
The clock face method is a highly effective way of instantly giving other traffic an idea of where to look
12 o'clock = somewhere above me
6 o'clock = somewhere below me
3 o'clock = out to my right hand (starboard) side
9 o'clock = out to me left hand (port) side
etc
etc
etc
OK?
Dr
