Humberside Issues, from Bad to Worse!

[Sliding Doors]

Speaking to a friend last night, it would appear that the BP contract won by Bristow Helicopters, at Humberside, now generates more problems for the pilots. Only last week they were all told that 29 pilots would be accepted under the ensuing TUPE agreement, meaning minimal, if any job losses. Happy pilots and engineers all around! Yesterday, according to a Balpa Statement, Bristows intend to make most of the pilots redundant as soon as they transfer across, retaining only 6 pilots. :eek:Also they stipulate that the pilots must be type rated, and line checked, ready to go from the contract start date. How is that supposed to happen when CHC won't release any pilots for training. To date, I don't believe anyone has gone through any type difference training. Let's hope the unfortunate Pilots at Humberside can continue to fly safe whilst this threat of redundancy now looms large. With only 5 weeks to go, I bet there are some very worried pilots flying offshore, and the passengers should be made aware of the increased stress now present. A very unfair situation to be in.
Very nice of Bristows I must add.....not!

[SphericalBearing]

How naive of me to think that the boys and girls of Humberside would be safe with TUPE:ugh:. Is this the same for the engineers as well - as Ive been told they have taken 20 or so of them accross??

[Chopter]

Although not good news at all for the pilots at Humberside, the statement said 12, not 6 pilots, would be transferred across...
I also believe some of CHC's pilots may be able to transfer to Bristow in Norwich?
I do feel for the pilots and engineers at HUY, the uncertainty must be stressful:(

[callie dog]

It is very stressful and in honesty the stress levels have been increasing since the first contract was lost - I think it is incredible that the levels of service have been maintained throughout. The way I am feeling at the moment I do not think I would be able to fly today - hats off to the guys that are :(

[handbag]

I think it is incredible that the levels of service have been maintained throughout.

Welcome to the filthy oil business

[helimutt]

I haven't posted for a while but feel very strongly about this. This is a terrible way to not only be treated, but also to find out about it on a friday evening at 7pm! Just a few days ago we were being told 'at least you all have jobs' and now, we're resigning ourselves to the fact many of us will probably be unemployed very soon. What s sh!t pile this whole thing is becoming. It's dragged on and on and safety issues really do have to be visited now. It's not safe to fly when u feel like total crap, worried about unemployment! I wonder if more news will come out on monday?

Fly safe guys.

[Followmethrough]

Not sure they can make full time guys redundant if they're using contractors (which they are at the moment). I wonder if they are just playing hi-stakes poker and are hoping that they can reduce numbers that transfer over with this little stunt. It's absolutely disgusting if they think they can get away with this and I hope BALPA go in all guns blazing. Good luck to all the guys affected.

Dig Deep Fly Safe

[helimutt]

Now I'd forgotten about that! Bristows may just be opening a real big can of worms and if BALPA are on it, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this works out. Rumour has it they were just trying to reduce the contractors from a 12mnth to a 6mnth contract!

[Pullharder]

Hey vital actions...how's this for a novel idea......how about not taking on contractors 3 month's before you know you are going to be taking over a new(actually 2 new) contracts from another company...and how about british jobs for british workers...you know, the one where bristows are employing GLOBAL guys to work in the UK where pilots are facing redundancy.....:ugh:
If my son wanted desperately to be a pilot and couldn't get a job because
" Bristow's doesn't need anyone with global guys flying here" then I would be pretty pis*ed off about it.... :=
I wish the guys at Humberside all the very best for the future and hope they all stay safe in uncertain times and also all find positions somewhere....
P.H.

[dieseldo]

Bristow has a legal obligation under European law to take a number of CHC pilots. They supplied the information regarding numbers to CHC who then informed their staff of what their individual position was. If the information above is true then Bristow has reneged on the information it supplied to CHC within a week.

Worth noting that when CHC took over the UK SAR contract they honoured the TUPE regulations and took all the Bristow staff. Bristow are well aware of European law and if they have put their own staff or contractors into these positions then that is at their own risk.

Also to be noted is that the Conoco contract is involved as well as the BP.

[Yonez]

Speechless,

Thats all thes guys need, another part time empolyment specialist!
But seeing as Bristows, CHC, BALPA & UNITE agree that TUPE does apply, you must be mistaken.
Stick to the day job.........

[365GUY]

"But seeing as Bristows, CHC, BALPA & UNITE agree that TUPE does apply, you must be mistaken."

Bond, CHC and BALPA all agreed that TUPE applied in Blackpool and in the end BALPA were of no use at all and the guys either had to take redunancy or a new contract with Bond.

[C.C.C.]

Worth noting that when CHC took over the UK SAR contract they honoured the TUPE regulations and took all the Bristow staff.
Actually was it not just those ex-BHL staff who wished to remain on the MCA SAR Ops. Currently working alongside a couple of ex-Sumburgh MCA SAR pilots, who moved to the IAC contract at Scatsta to remain employed with Bristow.

[Pullharder]

Here we go Vital actions....firstly, ok, take on contractors if you need them, but Bristows gave them 12 month contracts, knowing they were about to take over contracts from CHC in 3 months time:confused:
Second, most ex-pats flying abroad are there because there are NO suitable locals.....this is not the case here in the UK with qualified pilots facing redundancy:rolleyes:
British jobs for British workers...Amen to that...try getting a job in Norway flying the North sea and see how well they protect thier own...and look at the difference in pay (even taking into account cost of living) and conditions and how well they are treated...
Next the visa's for our visiting brothers will be extended to 2 years, then 5, then YOUR pay will be cut in half, you may lose YOUR job... see how much you would defend the company then, whom, if they could, employ completely from global for crap dollars a day, they would:\
365 guy...BALPA were not much help at Blackpool because NO ONE bar one or two guys were in BALPA!!! Some of the stand up guys took Bond to court using a employment lawyer and won a good settlement!!
I cannot believe Bristow's are lowering themselves with the likes of Bond in this very similar instance:=

[365GUY]

Pullharder

Over half the workforce at Blackpool were in BALPA (certainly not the case now after all their help!!) and the" stand up" guys who got the settlement were those who were happy to retire whatever the outcome. Those of us who needed a job were "advised" by BALPA to call Bond and take their shilling:(

[Big Tudor]

Pullharder
try getting a job in Norway flying the North sea and see how well they protect thier own
And there is a reason for that. When one group of pilots are being shafted, the rest of the community pull together and refuse to be divided. I assume the rest of the Bristow's pilot's will be showing the same degree of support to their (ex) CHC colleagues? :hmm:

I cannot believe Bristow's are lowering themselves with the likes of Bond in this very similar instance
Why not? That is how contracts are won and lost in the current market. To Shell, BP, CoP, et al the overall cost is the prevailing factor. How many contracts have been lost in the last 2 years even when perfomance and reliability was never in question?

[Sliding Doors]

More news on this farce. Still no word from Bristows about those being made redundant yet. Bristows NWI staff being told they possibly have to move to HUY or face being kicked out!. Still none of the CHC HUY staff are ready to fly the 76C++.
Most of the CHC HUY staff are finding work elsewhere now, thanks to CHC really getting their act together. I can see Bristows having some difficulty come sept 1st! Who would want to work for a company with an attitude like theirs? I hope Conoco, BP and Centrica staff still feel safe! I just hope those being TUPE'D across etc, take Bristows for everything they can. Unfair/constructive dismissal? Proper redundancy payments? How much messier can it get? Watch this space.

[Sliding Doors]

I wouldn´t use too much salt. Vital Actions, you are obviously a Bristow employee???
Which bit isn´t true then?

Still no word from Bristows about those being made redundant yet. Bristows NWI staff being told they possibly have to move to HUY or face being kicked out!. Still none of the CHC HUY staff are ready to fly the 76C++.

True

Most of the CHC HUY staff are finding work elsewhere now, thanks to CHC really getting their act together.

True

So, come on then ´Font of all Knowledge´enlighten us?? :D

[Pullharder]

Blimey V.A. you sound like management.................... :confused:

[Macaco Norte]

V.A
I can verify that what sliding doors reported is in fact true. Some, rather than most, are finding work elsewhere. The rest are recommending that Bristows colleagues from Norwich, with the threat of redundancies, stand fast and maintain their attitudes towards staying where they are, they only need to ask their roster writers if any redundancies could be afforded. CHC pilots must be rubbing their hands expecting huge payouts from bristows who are still continuing to 'negotiate' TUPE legislation. I foresee it being very expensive for Bristows if they maintain their current stance.

[Macaco Norte]

VA
Bristows didn't win the contract. As I understand it BP UK were directed by Euston to award Bristows with the contract in exchange for more favourable terms in the gulf of mexico. Bristows were and are still unprepared.
They have no intention of making their own aircrew redundant but are using the threat as a way of directing aircrew to Humberside. If aircrew volunteer to go (under threat of redundancy) rather than be directed, NO RELOCATION PAYMENTS.
Bristows have in fact accepted that TUPE applies and to that end all CHC aircrew & engineers should move across with their existing terms & conditions. This includes seniority, so any redundancies, post transfer, would begin with the most junior Bristows aircrew regardless of their roots.

[Scotsheli]

Mr. Macaco Norte sir,

Sorry to rain on your tirade but Bristow didn't fly commercially in any major way for Bp in the Gulf until the Deepwater Horizon relief effort.

It's also a fairly normal business practice for a Head Office to have input into a contract award I would suggest.

[Yonez]

Scots

I think Mac N was only correcting the previous post & he didn't comment as to when Bristows started working in the gulf of mexico, only that the decision to award the SNS to Bristows was done to sweeten deals elsewhere, not only in the Gulf of Mexico but in Libya aswell. On this one he is correct, as you probably well know.

[JB-123]

Ahh....TUPE

Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment, an oft emotional and misunderstood subject.

Firstly - does it apply in this case - most likely yes

As such the two sets of employers would, under law, be required to follow certain protocols relating to notification to each other and affected employees as to:

Numbers of and names of individual employees affected
Contract Terms and Conditions of affected employees

When a transfer takes place the terms and conditions of affected employees are also transferred, but NOT pension rights

Union Recognition and Collective Bargain rights are only transferred if the affected employees and the contract that they perform retain a seperate identity, for example a Management Company taking over a waste contract when it has no other similar contracts.

In this case transferred employees will almost certainly not retain a seperate indentity, so any previously aquired rights will not apply.

The new employer can not terminate the employment of a transferred employee soley on the basis of the transfer, that would be deemed as unfair dismissal. It can however dismiss employees, as long as the process is followed correctly, on the basis of an Economic, Technical or Organisational (ETO) reason.

Economic- example: to many staff and resultant overhead
Technical- example: transferred employees do not have relevant technical skills
Organisational -example: restructure of management or company location

As an example in the aviation world;

Win contract with: different crewing levels, different aircraft, different base - then ETO may apply.

Sound familiar in this case?

To follow ETO reasoning, and there is nothing laid down as each case will be assessed on its merits if it goes to any form of legal redress, most companies will follow the redundancy model as it offers the most robust likelyhood of a favourable outcome at court.

Remember that redundancy costs are bourne by the new employer, not the old, under TUPE.

Any redundancy only has to be statutory as a minimum.

In simple terms statutory redundancy pay is
0.5 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was under 22
1 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was 22 or above, but under 41
1.5 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was 41 or above

So, despite previous posts in this forum, will not lead to pilots "rubbing their hands together" re "huge" payouts.

I'm no expert, there are plently of online and other references to help you understand TUPE. My advice, for what it is worth, is get collective or individual advice as employess affected by the Transfer. BALPA can assist individually, but not collectively - for the reasons described above, in discussions with the new employer.
Talk to your new employer before the transfer, TUPE allows for this and requires your current employer to allow it also.

Don't get to emotional and don't get angry about it - some of the regulations seem illogical at times but the are just that - regulations and there is no point shouting and screaming about them, unless its down the pub with other crews.

However, all regulations are open to interpretation and that is why it is so important to get good quality advice.

Finally, remember that if all goes well you will transfer to your new employer with your contract T and C's protected under the transfer, you are going to be working with new CP's, Flight Ops Directors etc as your new bosses and regardless of the LAW, they will not want to be inheriting a pain in the xxxx

Keep it real:):)

PS I'm not a lawyer and accept no responsibility for any of the above!!!

[212man]

In simple terms statutory redundancy pay is
0.5 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was under 22
1 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was 22 or above, but under 41
1.5 weeks pay for each full year of service where your age was 41 or above

Based on a generic national wage (around £350 PW) - not your actual salary!

[JB-123]

Sorry for the, quite major re financial implications, omission
It is now a massive £380 pw - maximum :(
£350 if made redundant before Sep 2009
So a 10 year pilot under 41 gets £3800, plus you should get your notice pay as well.
This will be the notice period based on your old employer, not your new one. So if CHC is one month and Bristows 3 months.....:ooh:

[Macaco Norte]

Bristows are apparently still considering an enhanced redundancy package if necessary. CHC notice period is in fact 3 months. This, i believe, is all payed tax free.

[Sliding Doors]

It would appear that Bristow will not be offering any sort of enhanced redundancy package, only the statutory redundancy. The pilots have still not been informed who will be kept on or made redundant, with just 10 days to go, and they've been told they will most likely have to move permanently to Norwich to be considered for a position.

Due to the fact bp require double the OGM hours requirements for hours on type, those Captains hired will require 200hrs on the new variant before flying the line for bp. Co-pilots will require 100hrs on type. So, initial line flying training etc will be done out of NWI, which begs the question, do Shell et al, know that their flights are probably going to be used as training flights for bp? :eek:

I just hope the guys at Humberside are staying positive because this must be stressful beyond belief.

Good luck.

[windowseatplease]

This is thread is just turning into Bristow-bashing.

[Hummingfrog]

WSP

Maybe it is but what has been said is only the truth. With 11 days to go I STILL don't know if I have a job on 1 Sep. After 20yrs service in the N Sea this is the worst I have been treated by a long way. It is intentional which is why Bristow seem to be being bashed. They want as many pilots as possible to be frightened into finding other jobs, before 1 Sep, so they don't have to pay them redundancy. They profess to be only taking 12 out of 29 pilots under TUPE so their potential redundancy payment, and they are paying the absolute minimum, could have been close to £400,000 and they are trying their best to reduce this.:=

Imagine if you were a 40yr old Captain with 2 kids at a local school and a reasonable mortgage how would you feel with 11 days to go!!:{

HF

[chcoffshore]

Feel for you guys there! :sad: Is there no chance of transfer, i hear ABZ are in need. And they are interviewing this weekend.

[windowseatplease]

Do you think chc would have behaved differently if the roles were reversed? I don't think so. The cold hard facts are it all comes down to money, in any industry.

Pilots worrying about redundancy, while they are living in a £400k+ house, kids in private school, long haul holidays, two nice cars, wife doesn't work.... If you get my drift?

(I'm not saying you are like this, it's just an observation of some pilots)

[heli1]

I see CHC are pulling out of North Denes to Norwich...is this related??

[chcoffshore]

:ooh: is that confirmed? I thought it was still being discussed. And the findings are still to be announced.

[Hummingfrog]

WSP

I think you will find that when CHC took over the Coastguard contract from Bristow they behaved a lot better:D

Your comments about Pilot's lifestyles perhaps illustrates how badly Bristow are acting - imagine the stress if one finds the means of supporting that very imaginary lifestyle is threatened.

We accept that CHC has lost the contract and the status quo can't be maintained and if Bristow had come clean at the very beginning and said OK - only 12 pilots and they are A to L ( instead of BALPA breaking the news in a Friday newsletter) then that would probably have been acceptable but 11 days to go and no names in the frame for permanent jobs - well what do you think?

HF

[helimutt]

wsp, you're ignorance is quite unbelievable.

Do you think chc would have behaved differently if the roles were reversed? I don't think so. The cold hard facts are it all comes down to money, in any industry.

Pilots worrying about redundancy, while they are living in a £400k+ house, kids in private school, long haul holidays, two nice cars, wife doesn't work.... If you get my drift?

(I'm not saying you are like this, it's just an observation of some pilots)

Observation by you perhaps?
I was led to believe that CHC/Bristows carried out a relatively pain-free TUPE transfer with SAR? Is this or is it not correct. ? I don't know, it's just what I heard.
A lot of this present uncertainty could be because of the possible short notice given to the winning bidders re contracts?
Please remember some of us at Humberside are not Captains, a couple of us also paid £30k+ for an IR at the same time others had their IR's paid for, kids in local village school, 2 cars yes, my cars are 10 yrs old, and 3 yrs old. Wife works full time. £400k house I wish! You get my drift? :=

basically this whole issue affects us all. Yes it does all come down to money, and management, but it still doesn't change the fact some of us are still waiting to find out if we have jobs in 10 days time, to pay for those amazing luxuries you so ignorantly bleat on about!

If you don't know what you're talking about, I suggest you take a back seat and keep it buttoned pal!

[windowseatplease]

I said it was an observation of some pilots. You don't have to tell me about the woes of a pilot who paid for all his training and now has a ton of debt. I am one of them.

[nav error]

helimutt

Not sure how much time a major world player in the helicopter world needs to get organised but Bristow knew in March they had the BP contract so thats 5 months. By the time the Conoco contract becomes active in November that will be similar. I would suggest they have had more than enough time to sort out manning issues particularly as they had a captive workforce to draw on with no requirement to advertise.

I understand that as yet there is still uncertainty as to which pilots are transferring at the end of next week.

Even worse is that a number of the engineers were called for interview at Bristow yesterday on what was clearly the "chop list". This was the second time that Bristow has called the CHC engineers in with effectively no notice.

Some were selected for the chop on the basis that they had restricted licenses. It became apparent that Bristow HR were totally unaware that the restrictions in question were irrelevent. The redundancy notices could then not be issued and the guys were told they would have to return for further interview next week.

The knock on effect is that most of the engineers (except avionics?) now have to attend a further competitive interview next week. That will be less than a week to go and most of the guys will still not know if they have a job or not.

To look on the bright side at least Bristow have managed to give them some notice!!!!

Just in case anyone thinks this is more Bristow bashing the general opinion is that CHC HR are just as bad.

Neither operator is going to come out of this looking anything other than incompetent. It is an HR disaster that was avoidable.

[helimutt]

Shell of course have a more sophisticated approach to training than BP who slavishly follow OGP (its not 'OGM'). I really doubt BP want double OGP levels.

I expect the CHC pilots and engineers who want to join Bristow will recieve the same in-depth interview as those Bristow ones wishing to join Caverton-Dancopter. This is normal and not noteworthy.

It is remarkable that some people think that it would be better if Bristow made an early decision on who gets the chop. Smacks of blind malcontented militantism to me.

Do the CHC pilots and engineers really need to have an interview, as TUPE applies?

It amazes me how many people are prepared to comment and show such negativity, when this whole affair doesn't affect them in any way. Let's hope this never comes to an airfield near you anytime soon!

[Sliding Doors]

I've just heard, the Captains with CHC at Humberside will be transferring to Bristow Helicopters, with the exception of one or two who are either being made redundant or requested redundancy, or who didn't have type ratings on the S76, and all of the copilots were informed earlier in the week that they had been successful in securing positions too. So at last, the guys there can breathe a sigh of relief. I just want to say well done for remaining professional for this long and good luck for your futures. :ok: Glad to see a happy outcome.
CHC should realise they are losing such decent pilots. These pilots who have had to put up with disgusting treatment from so-called professional operators, but managed to continue flying, even with the added stress of this situation, ad absurdum. What is CHC's loss, is Bristow's gain.

Safe flying.

[Shell Management]

So there was little reason to panic after all.

It amazes me how many people are prepared to comment and show such negativity, when this whole affair doesn't affect them in any way.

Sometimes those people standing back can actually tune out the negativity that people in a blind panic emit.:p

[ericferret]

Tell that to the CHC engineers who have already been told they are redundant and to the Bristow and CHC engineers who have been told their jobs are "at risk".

[212man]

I would encourage you to be grown up enough to re-look at your last comment, see your mistake and edit it as appropriate.

that would be wishful thinking, sadly:ugh:

[helimutt]

I reckon Shell Management should pop up to Humberside and let his views be known face to face. All very well saying 'stand back and it'll all be okay' What a knacker!

Shell Management? I know which school of management too!

[Hummingfrog]

If shell management really works for Shell then it explains why along time ago a Red company didn't bother bidding for Shell contracts. They made more money ad hocing to repair the messups that Shell management made by trying to micromanage their main helicopter supplier;)

As for the Humberside issue both companies have behaved poorly during the transition process - only 2 days to go and I don't know if I have a job or am being made redundant :confused:

Got a letter from HR though thanking me for the good job I have done for the company for the last 20yrs and how sad they were to see me go:ugh:, unfortunately the cheque seems to have detached from the letter:(

HF

[helimutt]

No Surprise there then.

[Shell Management]

If you actually read the thread you will realise I was responding to Sliding Doors, the OP, who had written:

Glad to see a happy outcome.


So, not happy for all eh and thats my fault?

[Hummingfrog]

Shell M

So what you are basically saying is that you are posting about a topic you know nothing about and just feel you have to make ill informed posts.

HF

[Saint Jack]

Who is ‘Shell Management’? Who is this person who apparently has such a detailed and intimate knowledge of helicopters, operators, clients and personnel that he feels quite free to dispense criticism, innuendo, information, suggestions and advice to all and sundry on three continents? See his postings, which more often than not elicit rebuke as it does here in this European forum, in ‘What’s New in West Africa (Nigeria)’ and ‘SkyShuttle 139 Ditches in Hong Kong Harbour’. Who is this guy?

[Burr Styers]

All,

Shell Management ("Mollusc Management", as I prefer) appears in many PPRUNE forums, and elicits similar responses from many subscribers. My advice fwiw, "Don't react....while you're re-acting". There are those, who just for the intellectual fun of it, will always take a contrary view, SM is one of those. Don't encourage him or feed his habit, ignore him - and he'll go away.

B rgds

BS

[Hummingfrog]

Well redundancy/retirement now beckons as I leave Humberside for probably the last time:ok:

I must say that I have enjoyed my time there, flown with some very able and professional pilots and am glad that most of them have got what they wanted. I hope the other members of the 365 brethren also get what they want.

I will think of you all at 0600 as you report for a dark, maybe wet and windy flight out to the RN or Cleeton:E

I will miss the cheery banter with the engineers who gave me a safe and serviceable aircraft to fly over the cold N Sea, though not the dreaded " there will be a ground run on EU at 2200";) and the Ops staff/rampies who always remembered to remove the chocks.

I wish you all the best with your new jobs with Bristow/Global/CHC.

JD

[Epiphany]

Good luck JD with whatever plans you have. Hope we can still have your contributions here.

[helimutt]

Cheers JD, and may I wish you all the best in your retirement. Hope you keep posting on here tho. :E

[Macaco Norte]

JD, it has been a pleasure. May the road rise up to meet you, may the wind be ever at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face and the rain fall softly on your fields. And until we meet again, may God hold you in the hollow of his hand. Oh, and please be kind to me on these forums....

[dcfc]

All the very best to you JD its been a pleasure working with you! For what its worth you are better out of the s**t that has been the last 6 months!! I no doubt will have to endure this again at some point in the future, being a relative Derbyshire whipper snapper, lol! Keep posting dude:ok:

[The Governor]

Come on JD, don't have us believing you're not grinning all the way to the treasure chest buried at the bottom of the garden!!

Hope you have fun ground running up North.

All very odd yesterday, one A shift crew, one G shift crew. No fighting over the food, loads of room on the ramp, no queueing for fuel. Simple, unchanged program of flying....no fun at all!

[Hummingfrog]

IHP

I have the plans for your hat and can even post a pic of it on here :E

JD

[Hummingfrog]

He must be an American - arriving late;)! Won't be able to help me unless he has some more gold in his saddlebags:E

Best wishes to the Humberside professionals:ok:

HF