Deferred item open-closed 7 times

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

We have an aircraft that has A320 Apu Bleed Opened and closed as a Cat C Mel
item 7 times since February.

Opened again as a Cat C

Is it legal to open and close so many times.

Yes it is up to a Captain wether he wants to accept such an item but ...

If it is not legal where is it written as such ?

Seems like a grey area to me.

Thanks for the input, in advance, gentlemen

[Nightrider]

This is a very grey area indeed. It depends on the local CAA how far trhey go to accept these kind of "rectification" if they are detected at all.
Also it is normal that after some corrective actions and the defect does not appear anymore on ground that the subject is closed in the TechLog, a second or even a third re-occurrence is sometimes normal.
7 times, however, is suspicious and it is more likely that "time buying" from maintenance side is on the agenda.
It may be interesting to see the limitation on APU INOP as this may be the next step.

[happybiker]

In EASA land an operator is expected to have procedures that identify, analyse and fix repetitive defects such as described by J H R. I would expect the UK CAA to be asking some searching questions about the effectiveness of such procedures and abuse of the MEL if they became aware of a situation like this at one of their operators.

[muduckace]

Technically it is leagal, it can be deferred as many times as you wish as long as there is one good flight leg between. It is all up to the operator and the CAA that signed off on their GMM. Most companies have some sort of "chronic dis." program, usually 3 repeats should draw extra attention but usually will not have verbage to ground the aircraft so long as said APU was operating at the time it was signed off.

Alot of the time a "ghost" of a problem, say a relay that sticks occasionally or a valve that sticks sometimes just needs enough time to "break hard" after all can't be expected to fix what is not broken. Option B is to shotgun parts at it $$$$$$$$.

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

Thanks,

¨"Alot of the time a "ghost" of a problem, say a relay that sticks occasionally or a valve that sticks sometimes just needs enough time to "break hard" after all can't be expected to fix what is not broken. Option B is to shotgun parts at it $$$$$$$$¨

Muduck please tell me more about the options, thanks a lot, bud
A relay that sticks occasionally ?
Christ after seven times since February sticky valve ?
Of course it is time to shotgun parts at it, not my money thoough.

I would not like to have a old passenger faint if the cabin gets too hot on the ground thoough


What game are they playing here with parts on a A-320 for an APU bleed
APU bleed is Cat C , 10 days they could even take the whole APU out and it becomes a Cat D MEL item



The company has a Quality Assurance program. It should be written there somewhere. Lets see what the quality people do about it ?

With the summer coming it is not acceptable.

[Piper19]

If an item that has been cleared in HIL/CFD/whatever you call it, and re occurs next flight you have to open a new HIL with the due date of the first HIL transferral.
One good flight between it, you can legally use a new due date. But it will be closely monitored by maintenance/engineering in companies that take the business serious.

That's what I was teached an what I also do.

[muduckace]

I feel your frusteration.

Since when has an airline actually cared about their passengers, bottom line is it comes down to loadfactor's and profit per seat mile. Customer service is a marketing tool. Maintaining the equiptment is a liability. These people only see the business end and the only reason you are employed by them is to make them money.

It is legal and not really a gray area. Deal with it how ever you wish, your options are plenty.


Here is a suggestion, assuming you are a pilot ask your tech if there is anything in the GMM about chronic discrepancies, or look it up yourself if you have access then either address your company directly if you have a leg to stand on or go right to your CAA if in fact your airline has not been following their program.

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

Thanks again muduck. Totally agree.

Another item

Why would a 1 bleed inop call for the associated pack to be switched off in the operational procedure. When the associated pack is working fine.
Could it be an error in the MEL ?

Whats a LMV ?

I owe you a beer

[muduckace]

Why would a 1 bleed inop call for the associated pack to be switched off in the operational procedure. When the associated pack is working fine.
Could it be an error in the MEL ?


Not completely familiar with the 320 bleed/environmental system. I would suspect that 2 packs on one engine bleed at idle could require excessive air demand at idle engine air supply volume/pressure. Most modern ACM's have "laberynth" or air bearings, ops at low speed could damage them. But still just speculation.


Not sure what an LMV is, may have a 320 tech around to answer that, i am sure you could find an answer on the eng/tech board.