MEIR renewal with IMC

[Jizkid]

Just renewed my slightly lapsed MEIR which the examiner signed off on form SRG1119 (Type / Instrument / Class rating) and my licence.

Also asked examiner to renew my IMC but he said he didn't have the form. I found SRG1125 but that is only for the intitial IMC test.

Someone know which form I need or whether it is just a sign off on the licence?

Cheers

[S-Works]

There is no need. Your IR will automatically lapse into an IMC and be valid for 25 months from the date of the LPC.

If you really do want to submit paperwork then it is an SRG1176.

[Whopity]

There is no form for the IMC, its a Certificate of Test in the Licence.
Your IR will automatically lapse into an IMC Only if you have a Certificate exempting you from the requirement to hold a Certificate of Test as required by Article 68(1). If you do not have such an Exemption you must get the rating page signed by the examiner.

[S-Works]

Whopity, what certificate is that? Can you provide me with a link to look at?

I was told that the IR lapsed directly to an IMCR and was a question asked of me on my examiner authority extension.

[Whopity]

Sorry, I have been wondering how you get one. I have seen them in other peoples licenses, but haven't seen anything written down anywhere about how you obtain one. I'll inquire.

[S-Works]

It's a curious thing you have raised and I will drop a mail to Pat and follow it up. As I said I have always operated under the belief that it automatically lapsed to IMCr priviliges as that was what I was taught and tested on during my examiner course.

I could swear I had a reference for it somewhere official in addition to my handwritten notes that I still have here.

If you find something definitive I would appreciate you sharing it.

[horsebox]

Theres a few relevant paragraphs in lasors about it. Page 237.

The IMC Rating will be valid for a
period of 25 months from the date of the IR(A) skill test and
will not need to be revalidated if the IR(A) remains valid.
If the IR(A) lapses for a period exceeding 25 months and
no IMC Certificate of Test page has been endorsed, the
renewal requirements of Section E3.6 will need to be met
to renew the IMC rating.

The privileges of an IMC Rating may not be exercised
unless your UK issued aeroplane pilot licence contains
a valid IMC rating C of T. The period of validity of the C
of T is 25 months from the date of the last satisfactory
flight test (recorded in the National Ratings Certificate of
Revalidation). Note however that holders of a UK national
CPL(A) or ATPL(A) need only maintain a valid licence,
medical certificate and aircraft rating.

[S-Works]

Thanks Horsebox. I knew there was a reference to it somewhere and I was not going mad!

[Jizkid]

Thanks for the info and reference.

[Whopity]

LASORS does not exempt you from the Law:Maintenance of privileges of other ratings specified in Section 1 of Part B of Schedule 7
68.—(1) A person is not entitled to exercise the privileges of an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) unless—
(a) the licence in which the rating is included has a certificate of test;To do so requires a Certificate of Exemption

[S-Works]

Whoppity, I spoke to PLD flight crew policy yesterday and they had no idea what a certificate of exemption for the IMCr looked like.

They told me that my understanding was correct that if someone holds an IMCr and an IR and that when the IR period of validity ends it automatically lapses into the privileges of an IMCr to a total duration of 25 months from the date of the IR LPC/LST.

There are no further entries required in the logbook/licence and no certificate of exemption is available or required.

[Whopity]

In that case I should have photocopied the one I saw in a log book only a week ago. Oddly it was issued by those who purport not to know what it is! The fact that it exists proves that have issued them in order to comply with the ANO. I have asked the same question and expect an answer fairly soon. No matter what they might say the ANO is the Authority unless they issue an Exemption, a blanket exemption should be in ORS4.

[S-Works]

Thats the problem when we no longer have experts, just administrators. In my phone call the originally tried to refer me to LASORS. It was only when I pushed it that they went off and consulted!


We never get the same answer twice!!

[Whopity]

The exemptions are issued to licence holders applying for an IMC on the basis of an ICAO IR(A) or military green Instrument Rating (Aeroplanes) and have passed a single-pilot IR test in the 24 months preceding the date of an application for an IMC Rating. The exemption is issued as they are exempt from taking the initial IMC Flight Test and written examination. Note that it says Initial Flight Test. It makes no mention of subsequent tests or any reference to the requirement to hold a valid C of T.
My belief is that to be legal the C of T for the IMC should be signed by the TRE who signed the IR then you have 25 months.

[Stan Evil]

You don't just need a C of T, you need an IMC rating endorsed in Section XII of your licence. This can be done free when you apply for an initial IR (as long as you complete an IMC rating application form) but, if you want one later on issued on the basis of an IR revalidation, it'll cost you around £100. Once you've got that in Section 12, then your IR examiner just makes 2 entries in the C150 JAR, one for the IR (12 months) and one for the IMC (25 months). Of course, if you have an old UK CPL or ATPL you've got automatic IMC privileges anyway.

[S-Works]

The OP already stated that he had an IMCr as he was asking about renewing it at the same time as his IR.......

[BEagle]

When I used to hold military IRs, every time I needed my IMC rating revalidated, I would send off a photocopy of my military IR as recorded in my RAF logbook, plus the relevant page from my licence. It would be returned bearing the note 'exempt revalidation flight test' and an ANO Exemption certificate would also be included.

This was once a free service; however, the CAA now charge for it, or so I'm told.

So yes, ANO Exemptions do exist.

Stan Evil's advice is correct.

Note, however, that despite a UK ATPL holder having non-expiring IMC privileges, a JAR-FCL ATPL holder with a multi-pilot IR is not exempt from IMC revalidation flight tests these days. A change introduced by the CAA a few years ago with neither any consultation nor any Regulatory Impact Assessment. They had clearly forgotten about the UK CPL and UK ATPL IMC privileges when I later spoke to the person responsible - I believe the expression on his face is termed 'guppy fish at feeding time'....:\

[S-Works]

Beagle, they may exist for military IR holders, but that is not the subject of the discussion. PLD are still maintaining that it is not required and they do not issue one.

I have escalated it upwards to see if I can get an answer from someone who makes policy.

[Whopity]

The CAA has acknowledged that LASORS is incorrect and will be amended in the 2010 version. Holders of an IR must have a Certificate of Revalidation for the IMC rating if they wish to exercise the privileges of that rating once the IR has expired. Therefore, if you want to revalidate the IMC with the IR you need the examiner to sign two certificates!