Parking Brake Release

[eurotriple]

Have always been under the impression that wnen we release the Parking Brake (Only familiar with B737, B744, B773) we should let the lever release unaided (so it makes the noise for the CVR).

Just flew with a "guru" (B773) and he claimed that it not a requirement on this type, as it is an "electric" aeroplane.

I understand it sounds minor, but does anyone have a Boeing reference or something I could use to clarify this?

[muduckace]

Would not matter on any aircraft if it records as a non-manditory paramiter, the parking brake is also often used to initiate recording. None the less I am pretty sure it is an event on most modern aircraft.

[Cubbie]

Irrespective of the cvr, it should be released with a 'clang' to keep the other crew members in the loop as to the park brake status,,- if you think its set and the other guy has quietly released it without you knowing its gona give you a fright when it starts moving!

[Agaricus bisporus]

This must be a local habit - 10 yrs on the 737 across 3 companies and never heard such a thing. No Boeing reference to this I'm sure. (stands by to eat hat)

Bet you never thought to taxi in the dark with no taxi lights - apparently to "save the bulbs", or fail to get en-route or terminal diversion weather as it is "CAVOK down there", or prefix your callsign with "The...". or say "Fully" before ready for departure, pushback, established and a lot of other times too. Some do! Bizarre!

Some very strange ideas sometimes develop over time in the closed environment of a company's operational habits.

[411A]

Some very strange ideas sometimes develop over time in the closed environment of a company's operational habits.

Amen, to that.
I still remember the ops for the B707 at SQ when I was there...they distributed the B707 ops manual from Boeing...and plainly indicated...'fly it this way, thank you.'
Worked very well in service.
No muss, no fuss, standard Boeing procedures.
Those airline companies who try to reinvent the wheel, are in my opinion, totally wasting their time.

[Kirks gusset]

Does the CVR starts with oil pressure on engine start?, hence letting it fall unaided on push back makes no difference at all as the oil pressure is zero before start and then CVR is not recording. All sounds a bit odd to me. On the Airbus it's a turn switch with no pressure. so that's another myth busted!

We state " Parking brake released" rather than depend on some woolly interpretation of what the aircraft status may be, having said that, I can imagine one would get distracted in the enthusiasm and excitement of creeping forward to the holding point at 27R!:ok:

[MarkerInbound]

Have the CVR work off the engine oil pressure is very old school. The last plane I saw that on was a ConVair 600. The regs now require the CVR to be functional from the beginning of the before start checklist to the completion of the shutdown checklist. Not sure how the 737 does it, the 727 CVR starts with AC on the bus, the FDR with ship's AC on the bus.

[Capt Claret]

it should be released with a 'clang' to keep the other crew members in the loop as to the park brake status

I've not yet flown a multi-crew aircraft that doesn't have a visual annunciation of "Park Brake", or similar. Surely, said light extinguishing and the aircraft moving is a good indication to other crew members as to park brake status.

[Cubbie]

Just using visual cues what about audible?-You need to look in and down for the sign on the eicas as to park brake status, -how is that better than having heard a distinctive audible cue the park brake is released? Suppose it depends what the CRM is used too,-if brake set/released is announced.

[411A]

Just using visual cues what about audible?-You need to look in and down for the sign on the eicas as to park brake status, -how is that better than having heard a distinctive audible cue the park brake is released? Suppose it depends what the CRM is used too,-if brake set/released is announced.

Sorry, not applicable.
The aircraft Commander calls the shots, regardless of the RHS distorted :}:rolleyes: input.

[Piltdown Man]

The aircraft Commander calls the shots, regardless of the RHS distorted input.

You must be a bundle of laughs to fly with. Do you have shout really loudly so your minions can hear you from way up on your throne?

As for the parking brake, I release with the parking brake with a 'clang', smack my F/O over the head when I want to turn right, stamp my feet for a descent, etc. To the cabin crew, I make a 'T' with my hands and then a 'W' with my fingers for 'white tea'. Then the number of fingers I hold up indicates the number of sugars. I find this keeps all members of my crew in the loop as to the status of most things. I find using phrases like "Parking Brake Released" very ambiguous.

But really, I don't think the CVR needs to have the parking brake release recorded. For most QAR/ACARS equipped aircraft this will be recorded automatically, if not on the FDR as well. The position will also be obvious when something approaching take-off thrust is used to taxi and the aircraft refuses to move. It is the unintentional parking brake release that has to be noticed by everyone. As to how how you should release the brake, if it is important, will be appropriately documented.

PM

[Denti]

Have the CVR work off the engine oil pressure is very old school.

Still the norm on the 737. You can switch it on manually on the ground and indeed quite a few guys do it to have the checklist recorded, however you have to remember to do that or put it into the the SOPs, it is not done automaticly. There is absolutely no legal requirement at least in the EU-OPS to have the CVR running during the preflight preparation.

Park brake is of course recorded on the QAR, via ACARS to the company and on the FDR. Quite enough recording of its status as it is, and on the 737 it has this huge red light plus the lever thingy to keep you posted about its status.

[MarkerInbound]

Uhm, OK, I'll rephrase that. In the US, FAR 121.359 says..

(a) No certificate holder may operate a large turbine engine powered airplane or a large pressurized airplane with four reciprocating engines unless an approved cockpit voice recorder is installed in that airplane and is operated continuously from the start of the use of the checklist (before starting engines for the purpose of flight), to completion of the final checklist at the termination of the flight.

The only 737-300 checklist I can get my hands on says nothing about manually activating the CVR so I have to believe that models meant for US airlines have the CVR start with basic aircraft power up. Boeing custom builds each model per the airlines request so your mileage may vary.

[capt. solipsist]

For the B737-400: CVR Area Microphone is active anytime 115V AC is applied to airplane. :ok:

[411A]

...activating the CVR so I have to believe that models meant for US airlines have the CVR start with basic aircraft power up

Yup, quite correct.

[Capt Chambo]

A quick look in my FCOM for the B737 NG series (non FAA/JAA operator) shows we have two versions of CVR:- one version works anytime 115V AC is applied to the aeroplane, and the other version "is activated when an engine is started or the VOICE RECORDER switch is placed in the ON position" it goes on to say that the CVR will change from ON to AUTO after 1st engine start.

Have only known two pilots who "gently" release the B737 park brake and they were/are both Australian :)

[Flaperon777]

"Gently" or "sneakily". Whatever turns you on.
A rose by any other name will still smell the same.
Its just a very good CRM practice.That's ALL. NO legal requirment whatsoever to do it either way. Not illegal either. Just an awarness tool to keep all in the cockpit in the loop...
And a great one at that....don't let the cheese slices line up!

[Capt Claret]

Not once in any time I've been in the RHS of a multi-crew aircraft, and the captain has sneakily released the park brake, have I thought, "gee that's poor CRM".

If the park brake snapping off, lights your fire, that's good for you. I don't like it, don't do it, and it's not poor CRM or keeping the F/O out of the loop either. :hmm:

[Centaurus]

Then the number of fingers I hold up indicates the number of sugars.

Precisely. Why waste words when sign language will suffice. We practiced close formation flying in the RAAF. The leader would look at you across the wing of his Mustang and make patting movements on top of his head. I think that meant go line astern. A movement of his hand towards his oxy mask indicating a drinking movement meant something to do with needing fuel. A twirling circular wave of his hand when ready for take off in formation meant open the throttle to 30 inches of manifold pressure. A hacking motion shortly after meant let's go. Ah sweet nostalgia...:ok:

[halas]

Notice all the ex-Varig drivers in EK take the effort to keep the brakes release "quiet", where the sop's say there is no requirement.

The EICAS message disappears, yes, but the bang is nice to confirm with all in the flight deck, not just the FO, that the brakes release has been performed, whilst no visual identification is required. Especially good during LVP whilst all eyes are outside or on the EFB!

halas

[Centaurus]

Just an awarness tool ..

My wife liked mine when we were younger, too.

[mvsb1863]

Quote:

The EICAS message disappears, yes, but the bang is nice to confirm with all in the flight deck, not just the FO, that the brakes release has been performed, whilst no visual identification is required.

Hey, do you really need to hear a bang in order to confirm the brake release ???? You all must be kidding me.

[zeus_737]

on a similar line.. in regards to make a noise... a trainer once told me tht when u land u should slam the thrust lever to idle(A 320) since the noise helps in reconfirming tht the thrust is idle jus in case... :P
utter nonsense.... and about the brake release... well most DFDR def have parking brake status as an important parameter.... hence the whole question of makin a racket with the lever shouldn't really arise...and ofcourse... 'parking brake released' is a very pragmatic call...

[iflytb20]

A few years back we had a peculiar incident with regard to the Parking Brake. The P1 released the brakes and then cushioned the lever to avoid the noise. The Parking Brake light went out but during TO the config warning came on. On investigation it turned out that though the lever had left the full position, it never returned to the neutral posn and somehow managed to keep the brake lines pressurised.

After that the "unofficial" rule was to let the lever release with the bang - atleast we will know that it has released. :confused:

PS: I'm talking about a B738.

[Avenger]

What sort of a/c are you guys operating, on the NG and 76, 777 the parking brake is practically silent on release.. I would have to hit it with the axe to get any noise:confused:

for info the CVR is on all the time electrical power is established in flight and only after engine start on the ground.. and given the flurry of visitors to the flight deck before start it makes sense.

[Capt Claret]

From the Douglas/Boeing 717 FCOM.

The CVR operates automatically and continuously whenever power is available to the airplane. No crew action is required.

[Avenger]

From the B737NG systems manual quote:

Normal ( guarded position)-

. In flight- the recorder operates anytime electrical power is available

. On the ground- either engine must also be operating

TEST- Powers the flight recorder on the ground
:ok:

[iflytb20]

@avenger

In our fleet we have 2 methods of CVR activation.

In the leased acfts, you need BOTH AC power and either engine N2 > 50%. So our SOP directs us to manually start the CVR in the Preflight Procedures by moving the Voice Recorder switch to ON. It automatically goes to the AUTO position when either engine accelerates to 50% N2.

But in our own acfts, the CVR runs continuously whenever the AC Busses are powered. So in those acfts, we have to pull the CVR CB at the end of the flight day to prevent the erasure of the recordings and to permit CVR downloads for FOQA purposes

PS: Oops. Didn't notice you were talking about the FDR. My bad :uhoh: