Virgin Atlantic "Operational reasons"

[HamishMcBush]

Can anyone explain why Virgin's pm flights from LGW to Orlando are leaving typically 3 to 4 hours late on a regular basis due to "operational reasons", yet PAX are still expected to check in on time and endure 6 hours or more in the hell-hole of the departure lounge? I took family member on 31 Dec to LGW, previous evening there was already an expected delay of over 3 hours so I phoned early am to their HQ and was told that check-in was still normal time. On arrival at LGW, which was almost deserted in south terminal, it was confirmed that there was a large delay and no chance of it being recovered. Since then I have been monitoring performance of this flight, VS015, and it's the same set-up... sometimes the delays are even worse.
I suspect that they have a plane or crew issue; anyone got positive information please?

[Dropline]

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine it's probably a combination of the recent disruption at LGW caused by the weather plus the additional security checks and procedures that have been put in place for flights going to the USA since the attempted terrorist attack on Christmas Day.

[liquid sunshine]

Aircraft de-icing capability...or lack thereof!!

[ab33t]

Confirmation that its a double wammy , Lack of deicing and crew transport issues

[ab33t]

Rumour has it that Heathrow is running out of deicing fluid .

[Bealzebub]

Speaking generally, you only have to look outside of your window to see the problems. Snow and ice are preventing a sizeable proportion of the population from getting into work. That is not just aircrew, but check-in staff, baggage loaders, cleaners, fuel truck drivers, ground handling staff, ramp supervisors, de-icing rig operators, air traffic controllers, bus drivers, security staff, etc.

Most people are working around the clock, extra shifts, days off and overtime to cover for absent staff and to cope with the unusually high workloads.

None of this is aided by Gatwick Airports abyssmal performance at running a major international airport over the Christmas period. That notwithstanding, all of the staff who work there, and the airlines are still trying to achieve on-time dispatch, or the closest they can possibly achieve given the disruptions they are currently having to contend with.

Obviously in many regards it is a constant juggling act. With that in mind, you need to ensure that as many of the variables as possible are regularised. Clearly passengers need to be at the airport on time (although many will still be late for all the same reasons,) so that you are in a basic position to dispatch if an improvement can be implemented.

It often happens that aircraft, crew and personnel are substituted where an otherwise delayed flight can be dispatched because all the other variables are ready. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. The problem with delaying passengers is that it not only guarantees the anticipated delay, but it also invites further additional delay for a whole host of scheduling reasons. In other words delays are often easier to manage than simply re-scheduling a flight into a new departure slot where for example baggage loaders are not available until a gap appears in their programme.

In the current operating environment I would be grateful the delays are only running around 3-4 hours as it affects your flight. They have been in excess of 36 hours over the last few days, and disruption is likely to continue over the next few days.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

I'm truly glad I don't run an airline at the moment.
What with ...

Weather
Security
Finance
Cabin Crew disruption [BA]
Ground transportation
Global economy


I'd be both grateful and surprised if any carrier actually functions at the moment. It's called "the Real World", I think.

[silverelise]

Rumour has it that Heathrow is running out of deicing fluid .

:eek:

Don't say that!. I'm currently sat in the clubhouse at T3 for tonights VS200 to Hong Kong. When the nice lady met me from the car she said "we should be on time but there may be a delay for de-icing".

Oh well......I'll just have another beer or maybe a glass of champers and sit and watch the people with the luminous ping pong bats direct the aeroplanes around in the cold through the window. :ok:

[HamishMcBush]

..... but on 31 Dec, there was no snow or ice or reason for transport issues to affect staff getting to the airport. The flight was also almost empty so it would not have taken very long to conduct the "additioanl screening" security checks. Still there was an almost 4 hour delay for a reason that Virgin will not divulge to me when I complained.
Relative's return flight this morning was 5 hours late.... should have arrived at 07:05 but got in around mid-day; at least she was given meal vouchers in the USA to eat before she flew. On Saturday 9th, this same flight was on time. Over this period, BA's flights to Orlando have suffered delays but nothing like as bad as Virgin's.

I think that Virgin have issues of some sort hence posing the original question.
Anyone have any info please?

[Two-Tone-Blue]

It might have been a technical problem with the aircraft... which the operator would not, obviously, wish to share with the paying public who are not supposed to know about such matters. It might, for example, have ended up carrying a minor [but perfectly legal] defect.
Would you REALLY want to know that? ;)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

It would suggest to me, and I hope to any SLF, that the airline has a professional mtce organisation, and a competant defect reporting system in hand.

gfl

[Kiltrash]

Few years ago we were on VS022 from IAD to LHR and after boarding the CC came on and wanted volunteers to give up their seats, overbooked??

Various offers were made on the tannoy through hotel in Washington and upgrade to business class the following day,to compensation to free flights to anywhere on the Virgin network there were no takers till the last offer then our hand(s) went up and we took there last (best) offer

We had 5* hotel Washington for 1 night, upgrade to business class the following days flight £250ea compo and 2 free return trips, cattle class, but what the heck, to SYD

Did not bother me why they needed to offload but what a result

Of note was that when we got back to GB and for 2 weeks after checked the performance of VS022 and each day it averaged a delay of 90 mins

Perhaps not a similar problem to the tread originator but in our case perhaps Richard should put on a 744 instead of the usual 343:ok:

[paulc]

The LGW aircraft are mainly the older 747's that VS have and may require more tlc than a newer one. I did VS to Orlando in Nov 2008 and were 3 hours late leaving (inbound a/c was late in from Las Vegas) and on the return leg had both LGW bound 747's on the ground in Orlando at the same time. Can normally pick up this flight on 'magic box' and it is often this late.

[apaddyinuk]

Over this period, BA's flights to Orlando have suffered delays but nothing like as bad as Virgin's.

Um, Hamish....over a period of two or three consecutive days this week BA CANCELLED their MCO service!!!!

[Albert Salmon]

You seem to revel in that, apaddyinUK. I wonder why?

[apaddyinuk]

Im a BA crew member. Of course I dont revel in it you muppet! :ugh:

[Katamarino]

Few years ago we were on VS022 from IAD to LHR and after boarding the CC came on and wanted volunteers to give up their seats, overbooked??

How on earth can this happen?? Surely they would know about overbooking at check-in, and deal with it there - are you saying that they actually checked too many people onto the plane? That would sound like an incredible display of stupidity! Is there any sensible explanation for how this could happen?

[jetset lady]

Sorry, apaddyinuk, but I agree with Albert Salmon. I was a bit surprised with the way you wrote that post. I don't particularly think the muppet comment was neccessary either.

Apologies for the drift...

Jsl

(Another BA crew member!)

[Final 3 Greens]

Paddy and I have had some good ding dongs over the years and we're certainly not each other's fan club leader, but I read his post as inferring that VS at least managed to operate a service and get people home.

So not revelling in BA's cancellations, but giving credit where credti due.

Seems reasonable to me.

[frontcheck]

[quote][/QUOTHow on earth can this happen?? Surely they would know about overbooking at check-in, and deal with it there - are you saying that they actually checked too many people onto the plane? That would sound like an incredible display of stupidity! Is there any sensible explanation for how this could happen? E]
What it means is that there are still passengers left at check-in without seat asignment, if they are unwilling to accept denied boarding airlines will look for volunteers and sometimes this may be at last minute when aircraft is already boarded, hence call made onboard.

[Katamarino]

I see - I would have assumed that if someone turned up so late that they were checking in when the aircraft was boarded, they'd be told where to go as they would have effectively already missed the flight! Thanks for the explanation.

[apaddyinuk]

Paddy and I have had some good ding dongs over the years and we're certainly not each other's fan club leader, but I read his post as inferring that VS at least managed to operate a service and get people home.

So not revelling in BA's cancellations, but giving credit where credti due.

Seems reasonable to me.

Thanks F3G, thats exactly what I was going for!
And whats wrong with "Muppet"?..I call everyone a muppet!

[timtrb]

There are a couple of ways this can happen. After boarding commences, it is discovered by cc that 1 or 2 seats are defective. If the seat doesn't lock in the take off/landing position it can't be used. Therefore they look for vols

Waiting to board the original a/c goes tech but the replacement has a different configuration of seating or is another a/c type.

[Dan Air 87]

I'm puzzled by VS's performance at LGW. I went to BGI last year in a very tatty 744 where the seats and interiors had seen muich better days. The CC said that the a/c had been fitted with the UCS but there wasn't any money to refurbish the tired interiors. I'm off to BGI again at Easter and its BA all the way for me.