Merged: QF 10 Air Return ex-Singapore 17 Dec 09

[Taildragger67]

Apparently lost a donk after departure, all safe and apparently well handled :ok:; had friends on board who said it was a bit dramatic for the uninitiated but they're just wondering what went on.

Anyone any clues?

[Equatorial View]

Correct.... No 4 eng failed.
Nothing that hasnt happened before.... was very well handled by all concerned....
Uneventful landing....
Just a pax and operational inconvienience now... :rolleyes:
She will be back home in a few days with a new donk :ok:

Before the QF bashers start... Jet8 freighter also blew a donk out of SIN(no 4 eng) today as well....:=

[Capt Kremin]

744 or A380?

[engine out]

"lost a donk", sounds quite careless to me. Perhaps it is under the sofa cushions, that's where things I lose turn up.


I thiink it could be one of those days.

[40Deg STH]

I have just looked in Section 7 of the QRH and cant find the "Lost Donk" checklist, would it be in Section 0?
Any help would be apreciated, I have a Sim check on the 28th and would hate to be given a "Lost Donk" and not know where to find it in the QRH.
Some checkers can be sneaky!!!!!!:D:O:E

[JulieFlyGal]

Apparently lost a donk after departure

Why not use proper English? Or is that not trendy enough for some around here? :rolleyes:

[Atlas Shrugged]

After a brief, albeit thorough search, the donk was found on the right wing. All ok.

Oh, and for JulieFlygal - "The number four engine failed to proceed"

T'was a Rolls after all, one assumes.

[boeing fixer]

OJQ QF10 #4 failed at approx FL31 SIN-MEL returned to SIN for E/C

[40Deg STH]

Atlas, I agree, if it was a PW or GE, that would be fine to refer to as a donk! Must be a RB211, not as friendly as the good ol PW.:ok::D:D

[RedTBar]

Why not use proper English? Or is that not trendy enough for some around here?
It looks like the PC brigade/fun police are here :yuk:

[Taildragger67]

Equatorial and Boeing Fixer,

Thanks, reports are that it was very well handled & pax to hotels very quickly. No brickbats, friends just wondering, in fact they seem very impressed with the handling. :ok:

JulieFlyGal,

Ok, ... no on second thought I can't be bothered. Not worth it, "Gal"... :hmm:

[Willoz269]

JulieFlyGal,


Aviation English is NOT proper English...this is an aviation forum after all...:cool:

[Capt Fathom]

Just love the quote from this passenger.

"When he shut the engine off obviously everything was ok,
the plane slowed down a little bit and then he sort of pulled gently and slowly to the left
to get out of the flight path because the plane behind us was only a minute and half behind and still going full speed," he said.

That's gold!

[Critical Reynolds No]

They also preformed:

"an air turn back" and returned to Singapore.

May as well pick the bones out of it:

Another passenger, Steve Tanoto, described the shock "tongues of fire on the rightmost engine . . . in the middle of the night".

On its return to Singapore, Mr Brady said the plane was directed to its own runway which was lined with fire engines and emergency crews.

"(My business partner and I) both thought something had fallen off the bottom, or the landing gear had come undone," he said.

[blueloo]

Qantas denies reports of jet engine fire (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/qantas-denies-reports-of-jet-engine-fire-20091218-l1rs.html)

Seems a bit strange that this has been moved to General Aviation & Questions..... would have thought this was the exact stuff suited to the main Aussie Forum

Anyway that aside, I love this bit in the SMH:

Qantas denies reports of jet engine fire
December 18, 2009 - 2:34PM

"According to official reports there was no fire and there was no smoke. What they could have seen might have been a flare from the engine but definitely no fire."

I just think it is great that the PR/Spin person etc thinks that it is more important to talk about fire/no fire.... either way the engine isn't working mate!.

Surely its a bit like saying -" yeah the engine fell off the wing, but thats ok, cause there was no fire".



Caveat for the anal retentive types: And yes I am aware an uncontrollable fire is a different story

[Short_Circuit]

The problem was, the NBR 4 fire went out! ;)

[John Citizen]

Some checkers can be sneaky!!!!!!

Some people can be w@nkers. :ugh:

Please don't tell me you don't understand or ever use Australian slang. Don't try to tell me that you have never heard the word "donk" before. :ugh:

[Taildragger67]

Thanks John C, indeed.

Righto - the reason I started this thread using "lost a donk" is because I wanted to keep it reasonably up-beat and vernacular, in the hope of avoiding the usual nothing-to-see-here/why-are-you-beating-this-up flaming.

I have no doubt that the situation was handled professionally and by the book, both in the air and on the ground. I have no issue with that and at no time sought to create a beat-up - hence keeping it as non-serious as I could. I expected those in the know, who wanted to say something, would appreciate this approach and I think I have been vindicated.

I'll try to be more serious next time. :rolleyes:

[blueloo]

Talk about going off on a tangent. Julie - why not take your donk and other grammatical discussions to a new thread. Leave this one to talk about the QF incident.



Now back to topic, anyone have any more info on it?

[GodDamSlacker]

OJD left SYD late last night with a 5th pod for OJQ, a RTB due to a failed crossfeed valve but eventually headed off to SIN with spare engine tucked under its left wing...

[MyNameIsIs]

AA191 back in the late 70's actually lost an engine....

bit off topic but thought i'd mention it for the 'English' people.

[peuce]

For the dummies here (me) ...

Can I assume that a B747 has a permanent "hard point" on the outboard wing for carrying spares?

[Capt Fathom]

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/2/4/0289429.jpg

[fromSIN]

Qantas engine failure terrifies passengers - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/19/2776559.htm?section=justin)

[Jay Arr]

We will be ferrying VH-OJQ to Sydney tomorrow (Sunday 20th) following the engine change. I believe (to be reconfirmed) that we'll be carrying the busted engine on the 5th pod. Sched arrival in SYD is at 16:30, flight no. is QF6029. Photographers - get out there and get shots. Remember, the 5th pod is on the left hand side as in the above picture.

My info is that the engine had a bearing failure, but that's from an initial assessment by engineers on the night, so story could change. I was also told by one of the pilots that the S/O hand flying at the time did a sterling job. A friend in P class told me later they had no idea in that cabin that there was a problem until the "returning to SIN" PA was made.

This event is a good example of how QF does things right when machinery breaks, as it does from time to time..

[Capt Claret]

Can I assume that a B747 has a permanent "hard point" on the outboard wing for carrying spares?

peuce, I don't know if all 74s have a hard point but to the best of my knowledge, it is inboard, not outboard.

[Going Boeing]

Spoke to one of the pilots who said that the engine failure was a "non event". Vibration from the engine felt like light continuous turbulence, no fire warning (but of course if oil leaked from the bearing there could have been some illumination from the tailpipe). The engine was shutdown and a clearance obtained to return to SIN. Captain made five very detailed PA's to pax to keep them informed during the return so my source was amazed at the things that were subsequently "quoted" by the journos. LAME in SIN said that the ACMS report indicated that the HP shaft had "moved" and external inspection supported the theory of a bearing failure on the HP shaft.

Someone should tell the journos that Dixon is long gone and there is no longer any need to continue their anti-QF rhetoric, :ugh:

Correct Clarrie, the attachment point is inner left wing between #2 engine and the fuselage. When fitted, it's amazing how close the nacelle is to the tarmac. 5th Pod carriage has not been certified for RVSM so most of the flight will be at F270-F280. Very thirsty on fuel, a bit noisier in the cabin with a slight "rumble" throughout due to the disturbed airflow around/through the pod (fan section removed and plug inserted to prevent airflow through the core).

[Jay Arr]

Yep, QF6029 confirmed to be 5th engine ferry, arriving SYD 16:30 Sunday arvo, provisionally. Speed is limited to M0.78 but I think the ETA is taking that into account. However we will probably bumble around at Changi for an unplanned 30 mins while someone figures out how to let 3 x QF flight-crew access an aircraft on a remote bay at 5am. Security, you see....

So photo enthusiasts, please be patient if we are a bit late as there is no ability to speed up inflight!

BTW, having done one of these before, yes, the flight is planned at non-RVSM levels. Howevere once inside Aus we can get higher if ATC can achieve the increased separation required between RVSM and non-RVSM capable aircraft.

[boeing fixer]

On QF aircraft, only Roller and Pratt powered aircraft are / were certified to carry a VPod. GE powered aircraft don't have the hard points fitted. Other airlines also have certification but not every one pays to certify on their fleets. BA is one that has certified them but don't know of others. In the '60, '70's and '80's this used to be very common on QF and BA aircraft (engines were not all that reliable in those eras). Now very rare to see.

[training wheels]

Yeah, I remember seeing a 5th pod on a 707 (most probably Qantas) back in the 70's or 80's I think. I can understand 707's carrying an engine under the wing, but why wouldn't a 747 carry it home in the cargo hold? (assuming no pax on the ferry home, of course.) Doesn't it fit inside?

[hewlett]

Will possibly fit on the main deck of a jumbo freighter, defineately not on the lwr deck of a pax configured jumbo.

[twiggs]

Having experienced a flight carrying a fifth pod all the way to FRA, the delay it caused to the scheduled service made me wonder what other options are there?
The flight was initially delayed 4 or 5 hours while the pod was fitted, then the flight was much slower due to the pod, then it needed to refuel between SIN and FRA at DBX.

Are engine changes upline infrequent enough to not justify positioning spare engines at major hubs, such as SIN, LHR and LAX?

If the engine won't fit in the hold, is it too cost prohibitive to send it on a freighter or is it a time factor rather than cost?

[Capn Bloggs]

I was also told by one of the pilots that the S/O hand flying at the time did a sterling job.
So the voice-activated autopilot performed as expected?! :} :)

[leewan]

Left SIN at around 0730 hrs SIN time with the U/s engine in a 5th pod.

[boeing fixer]

B747 engine can only be freighted on a DC10 or MD 11 or B747 main deck freighter, its too big for lower lobe hold of either. Freighter availablity is the main factor, much quicker turnaround when freighted but extremly expensive south bound. VPod saves time if freighter not immediately available going to where engine change is required. QF always want aircraft back in service ASAP.
A380 also requires a B747 main deck freighter to ship a spare engine. All QF A380 engines are shipped on SQ main deck freighter from new and overhaul.

[waren9]

If there was no fire indication then why did the crew return to SIN?

Genuine question and in no way a judgement on crew actions.

Would the fuel burn on 3 be too great, flying at lower than planned levels?

[Capt Fathom]

Maybe the Captain had CAO 20.6 (http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/orders/cao20/2006.pdf) in mind when he made his decision!

If the failure occurred towards top of climb, Singapore would have been the closer airport (in lieu of Jakarta or Bali)

230nm circles, Singapore, Jakarta, Bali!
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?RANGE=230%40sin,230%40wiii,230%40dps&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy

[Peter Fanelli]

It sure looks like it is to me.
You don't see that plug blocking airflow through the core?