Distress / Urgency radio calls

[vecvechookattack]

I understand from a mate that we now have to say

"Pan Pan, Pan Pan, Pan Pan" Is that correct?

[Fat Chris]

Is this a wahh-wahh, wahh-wahh, wahh-wahh??

[kharmael]

Yep, CAP413 comes in soon meaning we fall in line with t'civvys.

Including but not limited to:

pan pan pan: pan-pan pan-pan pan-pan

Roll: Touch and Go

Land: Full Stop

Continue (i.e on finals): Continue approach

Line Up: Line up and wait

and other assorted RT nuances (nuisances?) designed to increase the amount of words required to accomplish what can be said in one or two.
:ok:

[Tiger_mate]

I once heard "Pan-Pan-Pan-This is a real Pan" and that got the desired effect!

I also heard a larger then life OC 18 Sqn in Wsx days who always returned with a practice pan say "Pan etc etc" to receive "Peter Pan your practice Pan is acknowledged" from ATC, but on this occasion, it was a real one, and said person was out of the aircraft marching up to ATC before the rotors had stopped on arrival to base.

[DeeJayEss]

This is obviously a quirk of the UK Forces? We've had the same comms requirements as civvies for as long as I've known it. Additionally, all the comms you've put up the top there are equivalent to what we use here too.

Not arguing right or wrong, just interested, and would love some clarification if you guys feel like expanding. I find the nuances of the world's air traffic rules fascinating (especially seeing as I come from one of the most un-ICAO regions in the world!!!)

[ShyTorque]

I had one Puma student who got his tongue twisted and called: "Prastish, er plastisch, er Plastic Pan, Plastic Pan, Plastic Pan!"

He went on to be a test pilot...

[Gainesy]

Saw some Alaskan trawler thing on TV a few weeks ago and one of the fleet put out a (for real, later sank) Pon Pon Pon. It attracted the Coastguard though.

[A and C]

I have to disagree with you about increase in words used, it is not always the case.

An aircraft taxing to the holding point of a runway and about checking in with tower:-

Civil intial call "xx123 taxing to hold short of RWY19"

ATC reply not required as the aircraft has made clear that it is not to enter the runway.

Military intial call "xx123 taxing to RWY 19"

ATC reply "hold at (position xyz)".

Military readback "xx123 holding"

With the civil system the aircrafts intentions are made clear with one radio transmision with the added bonus that if you are just about to land you know at an instant that the aircraft approaching the hold is not about to enter the runway.

I personaly will miss some of the RT calls but the problem is the RAF has been using non standard RT and this can result in confusion when operating in a joint military/civil enviroment and so see this as a small step forward in air safety.

[charliegolf]

Shy, I believe it was you who told me about a, "Mayday, Mayday, Practice Mayday", call you once heard during JP training? I understand it got some sharp attention!

CG

[Pie Man]

This phraseology was first suggested in the mid 80s I think, holding at Scampton with CFS Bulldogs at Scampton (tri-graph SAP) I heard:

SAP ??: Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Practice Pan Pan, Papa ??, oh forget it that's taken far too long, visual with the field to tower!

Π

[Gainesy]

the RAF has been using non standard RT

As the RAF pioneered airborne RT and therefore, the phraseology, I think the civvies are out of kilter.:E

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Well said Gainsey...

As for the rest, I reckon panpanpan will get someone's attention as adequately as "panpanpanpanpanpanpanpan" etc...

Failing that, a good mayday never hurt anyone

[A and C]

CAP413 is just the UK CAA interpritation on the ICAO standard, this standard RT has made international flying a lot safer over the years bringing vast improvement in the RT of places in southern europe (France excepted!).

I see the RAF falling into line as another step in the flight safely system, clearly the powers that be see it in the same way.

But what is next to go?........................ QFE?

Time to take cover me thinks:)

[Pontius Navigator]

Pan x 6 supposedly came in so long ago that I have forgotten when! Certainly before the 1980s. Maybe it came and went and has come again.

"Round and round went the flipping great wheel"

[Pure Pursuit]

'Pan Pan Pan, Carbon 1 etc etc...'

Student FC - 'Carbon 1 Boulmer, Pan acknowledged. Squawk 7000, you're cleared en route.'

Hawk pilot in question followed the instructions to the letter and was next heard freecalling Leeming ATC...

The Student FC was chopped shortly after.

RIP JM.

[vecvechookattack]

Pan x 6 supposedly came in so long ago that I have forgotten when! Certainly before the 1980s. Maybe it came and went and has come again.

The Phraseology changed from "Pan,Pan,Pan" to "Pan,Pan Pan,Pan Pan,Pan" on 1st April 1987. The British Military accepted the change until they got fed up with it and so on 1st June 1987 we reverted back to "Pan,Pan,Pan". This time I fear that there will be no going back

[Green Flash]

OK, so an aviator in a state of Great Concern is going to call Pan Pan Pan (ie 3) and we are all going to ignore it, eh?:hmm::rolleyes:

[ShyTorque]

Shy, I believe it was you who told me about a, "Mayday, Mayday, Practice Mayday", call you once heard during JP training? I understand it got some sharp attention!

CG

Yes, it was!

The JP system was live on both mikes with either transmit switch pressed.

After the student said "Mayday, Mayday.... Practice Mayday!" the QFI was heard saying:

"You.... F'ing idiot!"

[Foxy Loxy]

May I comment as a civvy ATCO with Mil experience?

"Pan," whether expressed 2, 3, 4 or 6 times will grab my attention.

The worst (false alarm) experience I ever had was earlier this year, when a pilot, when asked to report his position and level (as part of what was a FIS) reported overhead "PA-PA-PA-PADstow."

I started stuttering myself a bit after that for a few minutes.

[jimtherev]

Isn't the point of standardisation that it's, umm standard? If the pattern for a PAN is always the same, the rhythm always the same, then in less-than-perfect conditions (failing radio, bad wx, etc) the message will get through simply because it is recognisable as a familiar pattern. Yes, when everything's quiet and reception perfect, then perhaps a bit of deviation is ok... but when stuff is hitting the fan then as Foxy implies, you want someone to pay attention. Yes?

[Easy Street]

I agree with reader8. The Americans have it right - "in-flight emergency" and "Mayday" - very clear and simple.

The American fuel prowords are clearer than ours as well - "minimum fuel" meaning I could land with my minimum diversion fuel if my approach is not baulked, and "emergency fuel" meaning below diversion fuel. Our "fuel priority" can be a bit weak if not said with the requisite urgency!

[FantomZorbin]

A great many moons ago whilst sitting on the desk in D&D, I was awoken from my reverie by :
"Practice Mayday, Practice Mayday, Practice Mayday, 'Yeovil Flag xx' Practice Mayday" We duly dealt with the "Practice Mayday" and Yeovilton ATC subsequently informed us that 'Yeovil Flag xx' "Practiced" buying a great deal of beer in the Wardroom ... alas West Drayton was too far away for us to wreak revenge on the Bar Book!!:{

[taxydual]

And again, many moons ago at Leeming.

The oldest Pilot Officer in the world was sat on Zone. Bored.

Enter the ATC Supervisor, carrying mug of coffee. Supervisor sits at the small desk in the Approach Room to enter more lies into the Log Book.

Evil twinkle appears in the oldest Pilot Officers eyes.

"Mayday, wait" he says in a fairly loud voice.

Desk kicked over, chair likewise. Both Supervisor and Log Book drenched in coffee.

Result!!

[Mick Strigg]

The Phraseology changed from "Pan,Pan,Pan" to "Pan,Pan Pan,Pan Pan,Pan" on 1st April 1987. The British Military accepted the change until they got fed up with it and so on 1st June 1987 we reverted back to "Pan,Pan,Pan". This time I fear that there will be no going back

So if I say "Pan, Pan, Pan, will ATC ignore me?

[Gainesy]

CAP413 is just the UK CAA interpritation on the ICAO standard, this standard RT has made international flying a lot safer over the years bringing vast improvement in the RT of places in southern europe (France excepted!).


Bluntness, Civvy Bluntcrap to boot.:zzz::)

Pan, Pan, Oh ****, eje--, Tweeble, Tweeble, Tweeble........

Gets everybody's attention right smart quick.:)

[West Coast]

None of that crap. Just shut up and die like an aviator.

[ShyTorque]

So if I say "Pan, Pan, Pan, will ATC ignore me?

No, they will wait for you to say the rest, i.e. PAN, PAN PAN.

If you don't say any more they will assume you must have crashed halfway through your distress call. ;)

[MightyGem]

None of that crap. Just shut up and die like an aviator.
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