Speed schedules (Dep/App)

[StatorVane]

Hi,

I wonder if someone can clairfy what to many of you will be elementary no doubt. I'm curious to know what speeds the crew use when departing and approaching or arriving a the airfield (specifically jet transports).

I'm aware of the ICAO speed restriction of 250kts below 10 but what happens when transitioning to the latter stages of the arrival procedure? Do the crew simply wind the speed back to a specific value or do they reduce the speeds in steps (assuming no ATC interference)? I gather it depends on a/c type and SOP but do individual pilots have their own preferences. Examples would be most welcome.

Much obliged :ok:

[Occy]

I love to do 350KIAS on descent, but the accountants tell me this costs about 100-200kg of fuel (b767), so normal descent is usually at 280KIAS. Our company requirements mandate 250KIAS Max below 5000' and 210KIAS below 3000'. Usually we are back at 250KIAS by 10,000' (unless ATC cancels speed restriction) so about 4000' I slow from 250KIAS to min clean speed (dependant on weight - B767 usually between 200-220KIAS), hit Glideslope at 3,000' (below 210KIAS to keep chief pilot happy), usually at Flap 1 then sometime before 2,000' Flaps 5 and back to about 180KIAS and from there throw the wheels out at 2,000' and slow to final approach speed (anywhere from 120-150KIAS). DirectGeezer appears to be referring to B744.

[StatorVane]

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback and this is useful for me. Much appreciated!

[TopBunk]

On anything but a light B747, 250 kts on departure will require leaving it at Flap 1 or possibly flap 5), which is inefficient for fuel & noise. At LHR, the speed limit is max 250 or min clean (often about 270 in a B747).

On arrival, good gates are 250 at 10,000ft at 30 nm track, but fun can be had and 360kts at 2000ft with 20nm to run also works on a DOH-BAH shuttle:ok:

So, it all depends on whether or not you are allowed to 'do your own thing':hmm:

[Rainboe]

Time was we used to be able to get it as tight as possible at Gatwick. If you had free speed and could level at 2000', you could still be doing 250kts in a 737-200 at 10 miles, WITHOUT cheating and using speedbrake. Gear would have to be dropped smartly. Lovely and quick. Now it's 250 below10 and that's it. Taken all the fun away.

[Pitch Up Authority]

Certain speed limits other than 250 below 10000 are build into the SID design under Pans OPS. 250 is related to airspace class (read ATC and / or birdstrike)

It depends if it is a turning or straight departure and they are based on factoring the speeds of the PANS OPS Go-Around table for the category you are flying.

You can find them in JEPPESEN.

[TopBunk]

Rainboe

Don't forget the 737-200 (and doubtless the 1-11 before) into TXL.

280kts abeam the upwind end of the runway @ 2300ft, thrust at idle, head for the 'goalpost', drop to 1800ft and turn inside the 'onion', dropping the gear and running the flaps, turning finals at 600ft (500 ft agl ) with the thrust nicely stable.

20 minutes from HLZ to touchdown on 26R:ok:

[Denti]

The 250 below FL100 is not really universal, for instance in germany inside class C airspace there is no speedlimit at all, most airports with more than a few RYR departures a day do have a class C airspace on top of their class D and therefore it is possible to fly highspeed without asking ATC. However, the company decided that 300 below FL100 and 250 below 5000 is enough and thats that.

You could do that TXL arrival in the 300/500 as well, however the crowd at TXL tower is not the same anymore (especially after the departure of the bear) and likes its arrivals all nice and easy with 8NM spacing on a 10 to 25 NM final, visuals are not allowed anymore, we have to practice that stuff now at greek isle airports.

[plain-plane]

departure:
all initial turns an max 250k (Icao thing)

max 250 below 5000 on arrival

approach is 220 180 160 on outbound, base, and final to 4nm
-ad 20 to 30 on top of the above approach speeds you get what most guy fly

[Mungo Man]

Embraer 145 ops:

Climb - company limit max 200 kts up to MSA then generally max 250kts to 10,000ft but Embraer speed limit rises from 250kts at 8000ft to 320kts at 10,000ft

Decent - Mach 0.76 from highlevel, then 300kts company limit down to 10,000ft. 240kts typical until about 12 miles from landing or slower if ATC request. Some airfields always expect max 220kts when on localiser.
Further company limit is 200kts below 2000ft Rad alt (about 6 miles from touchdown) during approach. Typically reduce to160kts by about 5 miles then at 4 miles slow down to approach speed which is normally about 130kts and achieved at just over 3 miles from touchdown which coincides with a company requirement to be stabilised at 1000ft.

Different people and companies seem to do it differently but they are all basically the same.