CPL / MEIR instructing as a long term career?

[Foz2]

Hi

I was after some advice on whether people think that CPL / MEIR instructing is a viable career in the long term? ie, is the MPL going to kill off the industry of training people on light twins on their way to a FATPL?

I have a PPL and about 200 hours and absolutely love flying. I also love teaching and helping people - so it seems the ideal career ( in theory!). I used to be keen on the idea of airline flying, but the lifestyle (or lack of) doesn't really appeal anymore.

Any comments / advice would be greatly appreciated. Would also really help if someone could give me an idea of potential earnings of a CPL/MEIR instructor and how long it might take to get to that stage - ie how long roughly on PPL instructing / then CPL / then MEIR etc. I know it is a 'how long is a peice of string' type question, but would like to draw on other people's experiences if possible.

Also, do the likes of Oxford / CCAT ( because they are so airline orientated)require airline experience for their MEIR instructors?

Thanks very much in advance.


Foz2

[Foz2]

Anyone any thoughts?!!

[172_driver]

I had an instructor that apparently pursued a career as CRI/IRI (on MEP/Instr.) after 10+ years. The reason, I believe his inability to find an airline job. To be fair, he was quite hard to work with. I never asked his salary, but it seemed survivable...

I'd say the time it takes to become CRI/IRI would depend on the flight school's need for such instructors. From my experience, 2-4 years instructing PPL & CPL before internal training to CRI/IRI.

Sry... all I can give you

[tropicalfridge]

CPL/IR instructors are probably feeling the pinch just now as the health of the airline industry generally dictates how much business they have, could be why no one has responded yet.

So, I'm not speaking from personnel experience but...I believe that established IR instructors at FTOs probably make around £40k a year, those doing just CPL will be on much less, probably an hourly rate of £35/fhr.

It take quite a lot to get there, you'll need a CPL/MEP/IR and FI rating, plus i'd expect 1000+ instructional hrs at very poor salary. Then you need 30hrs P1 on an MEP which is the most difficult to get unless you do some air taxi work in between times. Then you need to remove the applied instrument, night and Multi restrictions from your FI rating. So it is a viable and a very good career, but you'd need to spend a lot of money getting the ratings (much more than for an airline job if you put at type rating aside), and endure PPL instructor salary for a few years to get enough experience to move on.

[protectthehornet]

wow...some of those european terms!!!

I am just a dumb Yankee (american). I was a CFIIMEI for many years...and went on to the airlines.

I liked teaching very much. But it is not a good wage and there are very few benefits. 200 hours isn't much and you wwill actually get tired of flying and the love will go away. trust me

but if you do ''go for it"...charge a living wage to your students and remember there is a huge amount of liability on your part...if you screw up you might die, be sued, or lose a student (to a crash).

I wish you luck and safe flying. you might want to have a regular job and just teach two days a week.

you can do things for love, or do things for money, but rarely is it both

[172_driver]

To be pedantic, you don't need a FI to instruct ME/IR ... as long as you are a CRI/IRI on the appropriate class. In fact, the guy I mentioned earlier did not have his FI by the time we were flying. Long time since I read the JAR-FCL, but I believe you can do it since you are not "teaching towards a certificate".

To change side here...

I work as CFII/MEI on a more westerly longitude now... and I agree with protectthehornet, it's fun (of course) but I cannot see myself instruct everyday for the rest of my life. That would kill me (mentally... and possibly figuratively). I try to combine flying as much as possible with other things, e.g. teaching ground school, administrative matters, whatever I can find. It's the change that keeps me going!!!

[Foz2]

Thanks for your replies so far, very helpful. However, on the issue of the Multi pilot license (MPL) - if this becomes the norm for people heading for the airlines, then surely the traditional light twin training industry will be hugely effected? Hence the career prospects for a CPL / MEIR instructor would all but disappear surely?

Any thoughts?

Foz2

[belowradar]

Logic would dictate that if you are not required to do it then you are not going to do it (whatever it is), so If there is no requirement to log hours in a light aircraft then the training syllabus will dictate to the training market what it requires (lots of sims ?)

I am not sure about MPL requirements so just throwing this in to promote discussion from those in the know.

[Parson]

Whether the MPL will become the norm remains to be seen. It may well produce good FOs who can follow SOPs and operate modern glass cockpit aircraft efficiently but will they make good captains? Will they be able to make good comand decisions when required? Time will tell.

I can't see the traditional CPL/multi IR route disappearing for a long time, if ever. Small airlines and GA operators just won't have the time/money to train MPL students, particulary as those they recruit may only be there for 1-2 years before moving on.

[Deltic55]

Hi

I think that even without the MPL issues that have been raised, the instructing route at the moment, may be a difficult one. I have heard of guys that have just qualified as instructors giving their time for little to no money, just to gain hours and experience etc.

I did think about going down the instructing route myself, but needed a little assurance that after spending out on the rating etc, there would be prospects of some sort of income. After being told for the third time that 'we have guys that are working for nothing'......:hmm:

I for one cant wait for things to change in the industry!!

[tropicalfridge]

The self improvers route will, I think always exist, however if the MPL becomes established you will see a signifcant reduction in good Multi/IR instructor jobs as the large integrated schools switch to the scheme offering the highest profits. This will also affect smaller schools who feed the current integrated courses.

This is a worst case scenario.

[FREQUENTFLYER1234]

I've done all that you are talking about, and absoultely love it. I weighed up my options and believe that in the current climate for me, it was the way to go, in total it cost me about 15000 € (30 hrs ME PIC, MEI course and IRI course). I thought about paying for a type rating but with no guarantee of a job at the end it could be a complete waste of money whereas with the additional FI ratings I can earn money and improve my skills for when another opportunity arises.

[protectthehornet]

C. A. Lindbergh said, you never know how to fly until you teach someone else how to fly (or words to that effect..."Spirit of st. Louis")

There is a unique NICHE of instructing...it is teaching the very, very wealthy how to fly. charge twice whatever the going rate for golf lessons by the best golfer at your local club. demand safety, even if they threaten to fire you...teach them to fly during cross country flights for their business...but charge your time for waiting too.

I know one guy in the USA who did that and made good money (100k)...but you have to stand firm on your rates...and you may not get any students for a long time.

[Parson]

Mmmm...the very wealthy are wealthy for good reason - they understand the value of money and will know when they are being fleeced. I think your looking at a very limited market. If you happen to find a very rich bod with own aircraft who wants you to teach him/her then you might be able to charge a reasonable rate for a personal service but you'll hardly build a career out of it.

[protectthehornet]

of course I should say about this wealthy plan...I lived in Silicon Valley with lots of overnight millionaires.

they pay you to be on call at a moment's notice as they are quite odd in time frame.

but, england might have a couple of wealthy people... and YOU have to be worth it...so wear a neck tie.