Aerokopter1-3 for Australian CPL work

[Koezy]

I am checking out a career change and hoping the heli community can help out with some advice. Can the Ukrainian subuaru engine AK1-3 be registered in Australia for CPL work, ie pax carrying tourism work, and some stock spotting / mustering? Are there any in Australia yet? It is now in the USA - does that mean it could get OK by CASA?

[brett s]

It's being sold in the US as an experimental kit, that's not going to help you out with CASA.

[Brian Abraham]

Both uncertified airframe and engine, so nothing of a commercial nature permitted. But nothing to stop you stock spotting/mustering if you were flying it yourself on your property as far as I know.

[Koezy]

Dear Brian,

Thanks for reply. Am I seeing a commercial opportunity here ie importing AK to Australia as an alternative to R22? This is somewhat attractive under the current circumstances of a very strong and getting stronger aussie dollar.

There are problems with using the robbie for mustering and from reading posts on another aussie forum I gather the heli pilots in the mustering game see potential in the AK.

I understand the process would be long, and tedious, trying to get registration as it is dealing with government department bods. And no doubt expensive as it involves CASA. Not to mention the difficulties of I no speakie da Ukrainian'/ Russian.

From your experience in Aust aviation does the AK look like a good enough prospect to have a go at a registration process? I would try and team up with someone with an existing Air Operators Cert. Got any pointers as to who I should talk to in CASA?

Thank you. Koezy.

[Brian Abraham]

Koezy, it would be a non starter. The greatest killing point is the engine is not certified (besides the fact the aircraft is not certified, and can't be certified with an uncertified engine). Would take an IMMENSE amount of money and time to do so and it just won't happen. An approach to CASA would only get one answer - NO WAY. Suggest you save your money and time (and heartache) and pursue some other project in life.

[ChopperFAN]

Out of curiosity... Can anyone tell me what sort or things would be tested or needed for an vehicle engine to be certified?

I know everything costs money... :ugh:

But proven reliability must count for something, just wanna know what they want it to do...

Is seems stupid as most flat four car engines are far more advanced than their aircraft brothers, and the EJ20- EJ25 Subaru engine is a very reliable engine in the motoring world

Is the 13B rotary safe through CASA? Ive seen them in a few planes before but not sure of the aircrafts restrictions

I know certification is important to anything aircraft

Lycommings scare the crap out of me... Nothing says confidence like a robbie that takes more than five tryes to fire up and sounds like a lawnmower


Thanks Simon

[lelebebbel]

reliability in a car does not equal reliability in an aircraft. The way the engine is run in a helicopter is fundamentally different from a car (torque, operating speed, usage of full throttle for extended times)

In addition to that, there are other issues to be dealt with, such as sudden air pressure and temperature changes.


I agree that your average Lycomings are an ancient design, that should've probably been replaced (by something watercooled with overhead camshafts) about 30 years ago, but you can't really say they aren't reliable.


If you want to know how hard and expensive (http://dieselair.com/2007/05/twinstar-take-off-crash-divides-diamond.html) it is to certify a new aircraft engine, just ask the folks at Thielert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thielert)in Germany.

[Heliringer]

Koezy,

The R22 has been mustering in Australia for god knows how long and has done an Incredible job, considering this machine was built for personal transport and Frank R did not intend it for the harsh commercial reality of Mustering in Australia's outback.

Could you PM me which forums are saying this Aerokotper may make a better mustering machine than the R22, or post it on here.

[Brian Abraham]

Don't blag the old aero engines too readily. Efficiency is the key, and that is measured by how much fuel you have to burn per hour to produce each horsepower. All the gizmos on our car engines today are mostly for pollution control, and they would be hard pressed to better a Continental or Lycoming in the fuel efficiency stakes.

The Airworthiness Standards for aircraft engines are here

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=881cd697e492c52d8931fb6e128e54c8&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr33_main_02.tpl)

Of particular note are the testing requirements, FAR33.41 to 33.57. You are talking millions of dollars, and then some.

[500e]

The AK appears to be a sound design but as sad the cost of certification is going to be prohibitive.Have talked to some one who has flown one and was told it was real good.
lelebebbel
You want to try the German Autobahn 120 mph with 4\5 cars flashing to overtake!!
And they keep the pedal pressed for hours