MP's not wearing poppies

[SALAD DODGER]

Just watched PM Questions in the Commons and was suprised how many MP's were not wearing poppies across the parties. Of particular note the Secretary of State for Defence, the repulsive Bob Ainsworth.

Am I alone in thinking that I expect a bit more from my government? I hope that they can sort themselves out and set an example. Thousands of pounds spent on gardening at our expense, yet you cant be arsed to spend £1 of your own money for a poppy!

[Pontius Navigator]

Salad Dodger, you may be surprised to know that any MP not wearing a poppy is observing the correct protocol and anyone who has been sporting one, I saw my first on Monday, is wrong.

RBL has only been distributing the boxes this week for them to go on sale from today.:)

[The B Word]

Pontius - well said, Sir :D

It's a shame no-one briefed CGS this week though! Take a look at the video feed at this link BBC NEWS | UK | Afghan troop reduction 'by 2014' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8320786.stm)

He was wearing his on Thursday!

B Word

[SALAD DODGER]

The appeal was launched on Thursday 22nd by Dame Vera Lynn. CGS was there, would have been bad form to opt out! No need to shout TODAY at me Pontious!

There was obviously access to poppies, as some of the MP's had them. All the leaders had them on and about 10% of the other MP's. I just think it should have been 100%.....

[Fat Chris]

From an older article.............

The British Legion itself says people are welcome to wear a poppy at any time, and those raising funds for the organisation often sport one year-round.

When's the right time to start wearing a poppy? - BBC Web 2006 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6085132.stm)

So, there isn't really a 'protocol' for wearing poppies and to those with control issues, wishing to dictate to everyone else, I say mind your own business.

I think you expect too much of Mr Ainsworth. One of his lackeys will make sure he has one on, I'm sure.

[Pontius Navigator]

isn't really a 'protocol' for wearing poppies and to those with control issues, wishing to dictate to everyone else, I say mind your own business.

Just quoting my RBL regional coordinator.

[Thelma Viaduct]

If they have no respect for the soldiers of the present, then they have no right to show respect to the soldiers of the past.

No politician should be wearing the Poppy, they're all a disgrace to the country.

[vecvechookattack]

If they have no respect for the soldiers of the present, then they have no right to show respect to the soldiers of the past.

No politician should be wearing the Poppy, they're all a disgrace to the country

What about the of MPs who have served in the Armed Forces..?
What about the of MPs who have helped people in the Armed Forces?

[Thelma Viaduct]

They should be shouting, but you never hear them.

Self serving to the core, the lot of them.

[vecvechookattack]

You are not listening.


This took me less than a minute to find..... yuou could also discover things if you look and listen


Jonathan Djanogly, MP - Member of Parliament for the Huntingdon Constituency (http://www.jonathandjanogly.com/search/article.php?id=614)

[Tankertrashnav]

Frankly I think this whole competitive poppy wearing business has got out of hand. I haven't got one yet, and may or may not get one when I am in town this afternoon. What is certain is I will be wearing one by Remembrance Day. Making a competition about who is the first to be seen wearing a poppy has nothing to do with respect for the fallen and everything to do with one-upmanship.

[The Real Slim Shady]

TankertrashNav,

I second that.

[Fat Chris]

Although you looked at what I wrote, I don't think you read it, PN.

There is no protocol for poppy wearing. Although the Act of Remembrance is emphasised on the traditional date of 11 Nov, the current state of affairs in Afghanistan means that, for most it is a year 'round affair. Some consideration for that should be applied with common sense in mind.

And I have to cynically agree that for some it's become a competition to be the first seen wearing one.

[vecvechookattack]

Concur.... I'll wear one on Nov 11th

[TheOptimist]

Personally I don't see why so many people make a fuss if a politician/celebrity/newsreader etc doesn't wear a poppy.

It doesn't indicate respect, it doesn't indicate remembrance, it just indicates that the person has chucked some loose change into a collection box and pinned it to their jacket.

Personally, I remember our fallen by visiting museums, reading books, making donations etc. After that I get chastised by someone who doesn't even know what the poppy actually symbolises, but because they've paid their annual 10p to have a paper poppy on their top they're automatically superior. I wear one if I have time/come across a vendor when I'm walking down the road, but it hardly shows I'm indifferent and ignorant if I don't wear one.

Obviously this doesn't apply to those who actually wear the poppies with a recognition of our soldiers plight and the rationale behind the day.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Some token words..........., now I'm sold!!!

They're rats from the same sewer, even if some do smell slightly better than the rest.

You need to wake up and start thinking for yourself.

[airborne_artist]

Frankly I think this whole competitive poppy wearing business has got out of hand. I haven't got one yet, and may or may not get one when I am in town this afternoon.Ageed. I'll put mine on on Nov 1st, and take it off after Remembrance Sunday.

If you go to any TV news/live studio at this time of year you'll find a bucket of poppies outside, so that the interviewees don't look stupid. Sometimes the studio manager won't let you onto the sofa/set without one....

Wearing a poppy/wristband is in itself meaningless. If you do something for SSAFA/RBL/H4H during the year by helping with fundraising, events, a monthly DD etc. then that's far more use than a tenner in the tin once a year.

[Motleycallsign]

Could be MP's poppies were from last year and claimed for on expenses?

[SALAD DODGER]

http://www.poppy.org.uk/media/224407/postcard_home_poster09.jpg
Think this says it all for me: The Royal British Legion - Poppy Appeal (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/photo-galleries/poppy-appeal)
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/umbraco/ImageGen.aspx?width=159&height=105&image=/media/223912/pa09poster_familyl.jpg

[NutLoose]

I will never wear a Poppy now, sadly it has become a commercial icon and a way of as this thread started out to show disgust at those in power or the media that do not wear one, without knowing whether they have donated or not or even care and support our troops, both past and present...........

It has gone from the real reason it should be worn to an emblem to be used to ostracize others in public and on the media who fail to wear one, and sadly for that reason I still chip in but decline the poppy.

[Dan Gerous]

I've had the feeling for a few years now that the Poppy has become something of a social convention that you are expected to be seen wearing, whether you are aware of what it stands for or not. All that matters is the money I put in a tin for it, and attending the service at the local memorial. I've even in some years, been dashing around on a Sunday morning looking for a poppy seller to get one,(and strangely, there aren't that many about). There is also no extra kudos gained by attending the service at the Cenotaph either, but on some forums, some people think they have to highlight the fact that's where they are going, or went to.

[tarantonight]

Forget the Highjackers.......you MUST MUST wear that poppy. A recent visit to The Somme highlights the need.

If you have not been there, put it on your list along with Ypres.

The effect is numbing. Totally numbing.

TN

[Dengue_Dude]

I must agree. I used to work south of Reims and every time I drove up and down it was past all the graveyards you can even see from the motorway.

I think the poppy is perhaps more important than it's been for years. I shall buy the first one this year that I've bought for a few years.

Yes it's a symbol and yes our politicians generally wear one because it's de rigeur, but perhaps they just don't KNOW any better.

[tarantonight]

Fully agree. Until you have been there, you can not appreciate the impact.

I too have noted the fact that individuals, be it they MP's or members of the public have on occasions worn a poppy because they felt they had to. The vast majority, without exepction, wear it because they wish to.

A little yarn: A Bristol based MP, Dawn Primorollo (not sure if my spelling is spot on), once turned up at a November 11th Parade in the city wearing a white poppy. She was roundly hissed by a group of Police Officers working on the day as she walked passed them. From one who was there, she looked a bit uncomfortable!

[hval]

Agreed.

I do not require a poppy to show my respect. I buy a poppy to remind those around me that it is UK poppy time. Having said that, most of them have lost relatives in other wars than ours, or have shared wars with us. Poppies have a slightly different meaning.....

Hval

[An MP]

Can I just say that during a recent conversation with one of my contituents on the question of whether or not I would be wearing a poppy I told them this.....
"I am begged to wear an Aids Ribbon, a breast cancer ribbon, a Marie Curie flower... You name it, from the Red Cross to the RNIB, they send me stuff to wear to raise awareness, and I don't. And in those terms, and those terms alone, I do not and will not wear a poppy.
Additionally there is a rather unpleasant breed of poppy fascism out there - 'he damned well must wear a poppy!'. Well I do, in my private life, but I am not going to wear it or any other symbol whilst at Parliament.
I respect our armed forces, the sacrifice and the loss, and like others I remember them on Remembrance Sunday. That's the way it is. I won't be wearing a black tie for anyone's death - I don't for my own relatives, so why on earth would I for anyone else's?
When the Queen Mother died, our coverage was not of dark grief but of a happy life remembered.
In the end there really must be more important things in life than whether an MP wears symbols on his or her lapels".

[Sven Sixtoo]

It does seem to me that year by year the poppy season grows earlier. For myself, in consideration that there are people who wear the poppy for their own reasons, I will never wear one before 1 November or after the later of Remembrance Sunday or 11 November.

Apologies for turning a matter of personal belief into a political issue, but I see it being done to me. There is a line to be drawn somewhere, and in the absence of formal advice from RBL, I will stick to my personal rule.

Sven

[Manuel de Vol]

If they have no respect for the soldiers of the present, then they have no right to show respect to the soldiers of the past.

No politician should be wearing the Poppy, they're all a disgrace to the country.

Indeed. I live in a country which fought on the 'other side' during both both of the last wars. We have a local memorial - Das Heldenkreuz (the Heroes cross) up in the mountains.

The memorial isn't just dedicated to German soldiers who died in the wars, but to all soldiers who died in all wars. They are all heroes.

There's an annual remembrance ceremony for all the dead of all the wars. No 'Poppy Day', no political posturing.

No politicians, no cameras - it's up in the hills and you have to walk there. (Way too hard for politicians and few people would want to lug a news camera up a mountain just to see a bunch of ordinary people remembering the dead.) It was a moving ceremony.

I go there often - I spend a lot of time hiking in that part of our mountains. When I do go there, I tend to spend a few moments thinking about the soldiers - on all sides - who gave their lives for their countries. I note that (invariably) the area is tidy and well-kept (I haven't a clue who cuts the grass ... it's hard enough [for me] to get up there, but somebody brings a grass cutter up and keeps it neat.)

From what I've read on this forum (and elsewhere) British remembrance of our war dead has become diluted by time (understandable, perhaps - but not pardonable) and has been hijacked by politicians. That's sad.

I used to live in Belgium. There is a memorial at Mennen. I went there one evening for a 'reading of the names of the dead.'

a really moving experience.

What a pity that the Brits - and particularly the British politicians, who are supposed to lead them - have forgotten how to remember the dead.

As a child, I attended the memorial service each 11th day of the 11th month in the school hall. We observed the two minute silence and the headmaster read the names of the fallen in both wars. It was a long list and it took a long time.

Then the government decided that 'The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month' wasn't worth remembering and 'remembrance day' became 'a Sunday near that day when the Boy Scouts will do it for us.'

Nobody stopped them because nobody cared enough.

Subsequent governments cancelled other things - because nobody had really been interested before, and 'we can get away with it'.

Nobody complained, because nobody ever complains.

I'm glad I live here ... and I don't live here because of the weather.

[barnstormer1968]

I would never wear a poppy before November the first, and then not after November the eleventh. I don't know if there is a proper time, but in my spacey/army service that was always the rule for me.

I bought my poppy today (it is still in the car for now), and although I know why I bought it, I wonder just how many other folks know why they buy theirs, or what they actually symbolise?

Last year my youngest son was the only student in his college class to wear one, and many of his friends asked him what it was for:(.


Tarantonight
I did not notice any white poppies at Bristol last year, but do know many of the police on duty and also some of the honour guard officers. I can think of one ex spacey/RAFP who would have strong views on the wearing of white poppies, and may have felt the need to offer advice on its wearing:mad:.

If an MP chooses to wear a poppy, then that is up to them. I am not offended if they choose not to, and often feel they may have just been given one for free for the purpose of appearing on TV (I can't help but notice that many MP's poppies appear to be upside down during interviews:E)

[Manuel de Vol]

Tarantonight
I did not notice any white poppies at Bristol last year, but do know many of the police on duty and also some of the honour guard officers. I can think of one ex spacey/RAFP who would have strong views on the wearing of white poppies, and may have felt the need to offer advice on its wearing notice that many MP's poppies appear to be upside down during interviews:E)

What's a 'white poppy'? - Is this a poppy worn to celebate General Dostum's(Mr Khazi's cousin's) increased opium crop this year?

After all, you could hardly fail to celebrate the fact ...

[sitigeltfel]

"I am begged to wear an Aids Ribbon, a breast cancer ribbon, a Marie Curie flower... You name it, from the Red Cross to the RNIB, they send me stuff to wear to raise awareness, and I don't. And in those terms, and those terms alone, I do not and will not wear a poppy.
The difference between the poppy and all the other symbols you mention is that, as an MP (if you really are), you are directly complicit in the decision to send the troops into battle. They are there by act of the institution you represent and was fought for by generations of the fallen. If you cannot see that, then it is little wonder that Parliament is held in such low esteem by the population.

[tarantonight]

Re White Poppy:

The incident mentioned was some years ago, so your suspect from last year could well be in the clear.

28th of the month ring any bells.....................:ok:

[5 Forward 6 Back]

sitigeltfel,

Spot on, I was about to post the same thing. "An MP," AIDS charities, Marie Curie, the RNIB or the Red Cross are not under the control of the government; the armed forces are. You have a direct link to them and are, along with your peers, responsible for putting them in harm's way.

This is absolutely not the same as "raising awareness" from some charity that operates in your constituency. Big own goal here, I feel.

[blimp22]

Will Bob Jobsworth wearing a poppy make that young lad and his Mum feel any better. Whatever happened to personal choice. The worlds going mad and you're stressing because some nomark decides he/she doesn't want to wear a poppy. Perspective required.

[cornish-stormrider]

I do wear a poppy on a rememberance service, I will go out and put a RBBT in the collection tin on monday - Buggrit. On Monday I am going to find the nearest RAFA club or RBL and go and hoist a jar.

I do not want it to be the case that anyone is EVER forced or coerced into wearing a poppy.

My thoughts do, at this time, turn to that ever growing list.......

[Al R]

There was bint on Question Time last week, wearing one that you could land a small helicopter on. But who cares? Come on.. who really gives a damn? I'm sick of this now. If you want to wear one.. then you do so because you want to. If you wear it to be crass, then everyone knows anyway and you look a bit of a cock.

I had a go at an old bloke yesterday for not wearing a poppy. He apologised, said being over the Ruhr had made him neglectful and hit me with his walking stick. I have a poppy that goes back to 1995 by the way. A special one. These, by contrast, were bought yesterday, from East Kirkby and cost under a tenner. Bargain.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm226/popprune/oct09/75a3a512.jpg

[barnstormer1968]

I am no expert in white poppies, but as far as I am aware, they are an anti war emblem. I had always believed that soldiers/sailors/airmen were the group most opposed to actually fighting wars. but it seems a new class of liberal type with no experience of conflict feel they have the god given right or need to show their opposition to conflict at parades and such like. I do realise it is their right to do so, but also see the irony in the fact that their god given rights were hard won with the very lives of those they are preaching against (this is only my opinion of course, and I am sure they would differ)



tarantonight
Please check your PM's

[Shack37]

Barnstormer1968

but it seems a new class of liberal type with no experience of conflict feel they have the god given right or need to show their opposition to conflict at parades and such like.


Whilst agreeing with your gist and stating that any poppy I wear will always be a red one I think we have to accept that "anti war" and "anti the troops" is not necessarily the same thing. Wearing a white poppy is, IMHO, demonstrating anti war sentiments while showing gratitude and respect for the Fallen.

[barnstormer1968]

Shack37.
I did say I was no expert on the white poppies:(.
I concur with your more accurate description, and those that are anti war but not anti troops do seem the more reasonable of the wearers. The type who are anti troops (and often anti everything there is a bandwagon to join and be anti about)
are the more annoying wearers I have come across.
All just my opinions of course.

[cazatou]

As I live in Rural France there are no "Poppy Sellers" so I cannot buy one each year. I will, however, be at the Memorial Service in the local town on 11th November at 1100 hrs; a day that is a Public Holiday in France - as well as in Belgium, Canada, Poland and the USA.

PS The Armistice came into effect at 11 AM French Time 11th November 1918 - 10 AM GMT.

[SirToppamHat]

I just don't agree with the wearing of white poppies.

I accept that some people don't agree with the various wars and other conflicts we get involved with, yet still want to pay respects on Armistice day (or at least they want to 'be seen' to be doing so). However the 2 things are entirely separate.

If you want to be respectful on Armistice Day wear a red poppy.

If you want to demonstrate opposition to a specific conflict/government policy write to your MP and vote accordingly.

As for that 'MP' who posted previously, if you cannot understand why the wearing of a poppy is different to providing support to breast cancer or AIDS sufferers, then you ought not to be in Parliament.

Sorry, did I bite?

STH

[RumPunch]

Wow a thread eventually that does not mention John & Edward :ok:

[barnstormer1968]

Cazatou

As far as I remember, the original planned date/time for wars end was 3pm that afternoon, but one of the British generals (think it was a general) thought that to end at 3pm (so it could be announced in the British parliament first, for political gain) would be just an extension to the already pointless killing, and so came up with the more memorable end time (as well as less costly in lives).

Sorry for not remembering the officers name or rank, but I am typing this off the cuff so to speak, as well as apologising if I am teaching anyone to suck eggs here.

The one thing that sticks out in my mind, is that after the war was over, all of the senior British commanders were paid a bounty by the British government for successful waging/command of the war. ...All except one that is. No prizes for guessing it was the one whom had embarrassed the government of the day (but had saved lives on all sides) by ending the war early, and thus robbing the prime minister of his chance to look good to his voting public.

I think the bounty would have been in the region of at least one million pounds in modern terms. The double blow for the PM, was that the king announced the end of fighting after getting to hear of this change in timings, and so took the adulation from a gathered crowd in front of Buck house:ok:.

[November4]

I was once told to remove my poppy by a Flt Lt as Rememberance Sunday had passed. True enough but that year Rememberance Sunday on something like the 9 Nov and it was 11 Nov when I was told to take it off...:ugh: