Changing bird going certified or not.

[joris]

Having flown several hundreds of hours in tin metal cessna's, piper's and plastic (motor) glider aircraft it is time for me to move to something faster. On an earlier post I examined the options of importing an experimental from the other side of the pond..... Honestly reading all the disaster reports put me of the road to go for a lancair or glasair hot rod.:=
Its clear that the options are not wide. I currently love to fly and own a 110Kts motorglider with a 16L/Hr F.burn which has taken me several times over the Austrian mountains. The mission is clear 600Nm in one go without refueling..Budget is limited let's say 85K what can I get for this..Having JAR and FAA ppl licences in hand I am concidering going the FAA IFR route and buying a US metal frame I see several commander 112TC's or mooneys which are avaible at dumping prices most of them have old non compliant IFR avionics and restricted to EU VFR. I am thinking to go for a steady progress upgrade (if I can find an avionics shop that certifies the work I do myself, as I am of trade in my early days an avionics specialist). ;)If I would go for an EASA annex II aircraft things are much simpler maintenance/upgrade wise however the IFR route is closed...
Knowing that yes to fly safely IFR all year long one needs a Hot prop and TKS etc...but then again your ending up with min 250K euro birds..a la Cirrus.:ugh: The question is..stick to VFR (e.g. EASA annexII) and keep it safe virtually no prolonged VFR en-route weather (600Nm flying) between October and April or go IFR with a non EASA aircraft N reg (112TC or old TB20..) and do the upgrades on a step up approach alltough it will come with a huge bang for upgrading to 430's additional DME etc...How limited is my IFR without all the de-ice stuff..?
Still the MCR01 VLA as a fast safe VFR plastic plane is tempting with the additional BRS option........:E
Everything comes with a budget, my fear is that for serious IFR you need to dig deep in the pocket..:confused:?

[Rod1]

A top spec MCR01 VLA with glass panel etc would cost about £55k in the UK (I have the club version). The other obvious “permit” option would be a VANS of some sort. The “10” would give you 4 seats, 150kn, 250hp, 1000nm, but you would probably need £100k for one. An RV 9a would give you 2 seats 700nm, 140kn and probably cost you £65k – £70k for a fully loaded example.

Rod1

[joris]

Thanks Rod1,
I've been in contact with the Dynaero people in France and apparently for a new bird with avionics& BRS included about 80 to 90K euro seems to be the price..(about 17K for a subcontracted) professionel build ...
Second hand MCR01 go for around 60-70K euro...I know one for sale it has the additional wing fuel tanks...
Honestly I am more an more sure that certified IFR flying under 150Keuro plus yearly 10K euro fixed costs plus fuel seems unrealistic....Being part of the boring middle class reduces significatly the options ....;). However on the MCR01 I could do the maintenance in my garage..:ok: What engine prop configuration do you have..?

[jxc]

I believe there is a very nice commander 112TC for sale at Earls Colne (EGSR) don't quote me but I think around £70k very new avionics

[joris]

Oeeps missed the PM thanks for the info Rod1..:rolleyes:

[fernytickles]

I'm guessing you might have already done this, but just in case you haven't. When we were planning on changing planes a few years ago, we did like you are doing on requirements (one list), then types we liked that would fit the requirements (second list), budget (most important, but shortest list!) and sat down to do a comparison.

The C180 seemed to fit the bill. We spent $70k initially for a 1955 model, and have done a number of upgrades at the last two annuals, including a Garmin 430 so it is fully IFR capable now. We view this as a longterm investment, so worth putting the money into. It doesn't do the 600nm range that you want, but would if we had changed the fuel tanks to the larger ones. We have just completed a return trip from Oshkosh, WI to Santa Monica, CA. 25 hours of flying time over a week, with comfortable 2.5 - 3 hr legs. The average TAS is about 150kts at 7500 feet, and fuel burn is about 11.5 - 12 gph. Getting up high to get over the mountains was not an issue. It is so stable and flies so straight, no autopilot is necessary, IFR or VFR. Lots of space for luggage, and we could have filled it with more people easily.

The hot rod Glasairs and Lancairs certainly will go a lot faster for a better fuel burn, but the 180 will take us on cross country flights or mountain flying in Idaho on rough strips or we can load it up and go camping in the summer. It is a good multi-tasker and for us, it is the ideal aeroplane.

[joris]

Thanks Jxc
Thanks I will try to find the refrences for the 112TC.
If I would decide to go certified then 112TC seems to me one one of the nicest options in terms of speed and comfort...The looks are still contempory if compared to some other designs...
Commanders have most of the standard parts as used in GA except for some of the airframe parts...But I now some aces in bending metal..if things get broken:E

[steveking]

The Rvs are well worth considering. I have a 6 and went to Leipzig in Germany 2 weeks ago to drop a friend off to collect his plane, 150kt at 27lts is quite easy. Good tourers and great fun to fly.

[B2N2]

This is nice:

Velocity XL-RG-5 Kit for sale + Additional Engine Turbine T55 360 (http://www.interking.com/ads/stargroves.htm)

Velocity XL + turbine engine

http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/sportav/2003/Velocity-XL5-0703a.jpg

[joris]

:rolleyes:The velocity is surely an exciting aircraft.

However in Europe we have some other issues to deal with then our friends on the other side of the Atlantic. Flying IFR with an experimental can not be done in Europe. Flight plans need to be approved by eurocontrol. The equipment minima to fly airways is B-RNAV and you need FM immunity equipment and mode S and of course a good GPS

Bottom line an EASA annex II aircraft (experimental) is fine however your limited below to FL100 in most of the EU countries e.g. Germany. DFS doesn't like VFR's in class C specially around Frankfurt...

So the Velocity and some other Hi speed experimentals are to powerfull to maximise the efficiancy of them in Europe....

As already mentioned by some others here on the forum. Flying airways the most cost efficiant way is going N -reg with a certified bird...
The alternative is VFR ....with all limitations as well known weather, ATCO's moods etc..
Most of the time I get what I want flying VFR (But then again I fly meanly east bound and German controllers do a good job for us VFR blokes):ok:
Alltough one get's stressed out some times when doing 600 Nm you talk to 15 diffrent controllers set of 8 diffrent squawk codes for clearances..

So a decision going certified mainly is triggred by can I finacially afford it...:ugh: