BBMF Giving Hurricane LF363 to India

[NutLoose]

WTF??


Just picked up the latest issue of Aeroplane Monthly. BTW not on the web yet so you will have to buy it!

The Editorial and a news item inside are both devoted to the news that the BoBF Hurricane IIB LF363 is off to India for the reformation of the IAF's Historic Flight.

I found this on 'tinternet

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Museum/Palam/Vintage.html (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Museum/Palam/Vintage.html)

Let's think this through before getting emotional.

It is the last Hurricane accepted into RAF service in 1944 (PZ865 never entered active service - it remained with Hawkers until donated to the RAF in the 1970's)

It has been in continuous service with the RAF since inducted (let's say that during it's rebuild in the early 1990's it was merely 'resting')

It is the RAF's longest serving aircraft by far (what else comes close - the BOBF Chippies maybe??)

It is a founder member of the BoBF


In exchange


[I]IAF donate a Mk.1(identity not stated)

It will take 'several years' to be made airworthy

The world's population of airworthy Hurricanes will increase by one

Is this a fair exchange?

Who brokered this deal and why?


I have to admit that I had to read the article a few times to grasp the implications. I originally thought that it was being shipped over for a few displays, just like Spit Vb AB910 to the USA some years ago. Not so. On the negative side, an important slice of RAF history is being lost (to us at least). Also do we send them '363 now and get a bag of bits, or do we do the swap when the other airframe is airworthy? On the positive side, I doubt it will be flown as often as it is now and so the chances of it having a prang are less. (Museaum/flying arguments on a postcard please!) Secondly, we potentially get a new aircraft (with an intersting pedigree?) to enjoy in years to come. If you look at the link, it's doubtful that the Mk.II they have in their 'static' Flight is the exchange item. So what will it be?

India has got to be an untapped source of goodies (is there another Wapiti out there?).

I am genuinly in two minds about this............what do YOU think?

Confused

Max H.


BoBF Hurricane LF363 - Britmodeller.com (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37684&hl)=

[Buster Hyman]

It has been in continuous service with the RAF since inducted

It'd be a pity to break that chain...

[Runaway Gun]

The Alpine Collection's Hurricane IIA is up for sale.
It failed to meet it's reserve at a recent auction.
Cheap Kiwi dollars too ;)

[The B Word]

It is the RAF's longest serving aircraft by far (what else comes close - the BOBF Chippies maybe??)


No, their MkIIa Spitfire is the longest serving - 1940. She flew in the BoB.

Quite surprised their giving away a Hurricane vice a Spitty though!

B Word

[Icare9]

My view is that the Battle of BRITAIN might give a clue as to where as many Hurricanes and Spitfires should be here flying at as many events as possible.

The BBMF has to work hard keeping its aircraft in tip top condition and needs as many airworthy aircraft as it can possibly obtain. Removing one Hurricane from the pool increases the load on the rest. Where is the sense in that, given that these aircraft are so evocative and emotive?

It would be a darn sight more sensible if the Indian Air Force donated the Hurricane Mk I to the BBMF for rebuild on condition it flew in either Far East or IAF identity, here in the UK for the same number of years as the rebuild took, and then be handed over.

I don't see the "gain" to lose an airworthy Hurricane from the UK display circuit in exchange for an early airframe that may take years to complete, if that's the crux of the deal....

Could this useless Government spring for the Alpine Collection Hurricane? Gaining one makes more sense to me than losing one!

[GPMG]

So the Indian Airforce gets a Hurricane that it can fly at airshows, memorial services and other celebrations that honour the many Indian soldiers that lost their lives in WW2 and those few that still remain alive.

According to Wikipedia some 2.5 million Indian volunteers faught in the war in the Middle East, Africa and Far East, 30 Victoria Crosses were gained by Indian soldiers.

I think that it is high time that India was given such a powerful symbol to honour it's efforts especially whilst some of those that will remember it in Africa are still alive.

And in return they are giving us an even more valuable machine that will probably give Hawker Restorations Ltd more work and another chance to show the world their mastery of their art.

Also the Hurricane being given to the IAF will hopefully spark the spirit of flight in a few young kids as they look up at the sound of a Merlin and start dreaming.

[Jackonicko]

The obvious solution would be for the UK to buy the NZ Hurricane and donate that to India.

[240 Gardner]

I think that P7350 was disposed of and subsequently returned to the RAF so, strictly (pedantically!) its service hasn't been continuous.

[GPMG]

Why should the UK buy them a Hurricane jacko? Last time I checked India had a few sheckles to rub together and will increase in strength way beyond the UK's ability.

This is a straight swap, and a good one. Tis a shame that we couldn't have got this thrown into the deal as well though.



http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Museum/Palam/Wapiti-2.jpg

[Amos Keeto]

The issue is that the BBMF have two very historic Hurricanes and neither can be regarded as 'spare for trade'. Exchanging one of the two very historic Mk.IIcs for a Mk.1 restoration project doesn't look like a good deal. Who cares whether we have a Mk.1 or Mk. II airworthy? Why can't India restore its own Hurricane to flight status? If there is so much concern for how many personel our allies lost during WWII, then we would ending up 'donating' airworthy aircraft to Poland, Russia and others?
Hurricane LF363 is a very historic machine and founder of the BBMF and not something that should be even contemplated for sale or trade, for whatever cause!:=

[Jackonicko]

Why, GPMG?

Because doing something nice for the IAF seems to be a good thing to do. They have done a great deal for 'King and Empire' in the past, after all.

I don't support giving P7350 or LF363 away, however, so buying the NZ Hurricane for the purpose would seem to be a 'good deal'.

Perhaps the IAF could also chip in a Canberra B(I)8 to replace the one we gave away to New Zealand?

[Bob Viking]

With the state of our economy, maybe India would like to donate us a few aircraft. Now what to choose...
BV:}

[airborne_artist]

Both the BBMF Hurricanes are special in their own way. I'd like to think that in time the BBMF might be able to acquire the Vacher's Mk1, though, which is far more fitting for the BBMF in terms of its history.

[NutLoose]

Considering this was the one that was totally rebuilt and they had to sell the MK19 now owned by Rolls Royce to fund its rebuild, it seems an odd decision, Is this indicative of Brown PLC selling off all the Countries assets and is another nail in the coffin of UK PLC?

I am suprised BAe has not said anything, as it was donated by Hawker to the RAF perhaps one should in future, when donating aicraft to the RAF add a clause that if it is ever to be sold, it must be offered to be returned to the original donating company or individual first, and if they do not want it it can be sold.

Why does everyone make comments about not being in the spirit of the BBMF and the Battle of Britain timeframe, I believe the memorial was added to open it up to other types, after all there was not many Lancasters, Dakotas or Chipmunks flown by the few.....

[NutLoose]

BBMF Hurricane for India news - Aeroplane Magazine - History in the Air (http://www.aeroplanemonthly.co.uk/news/bbmf_hurricane_for_india_news_289838.html?aff=rss)

[airborne_artist]

A small but well-connected bird tells me that the history of the expected Mk1 includes BoB kills. If the deal goes through the BBMF will have an aircraft as good, both technically and historically as the Vacher's Mk1. The only issue is that it will take three years to get into the air.

Given that there were four Hurricanes flying during the BoB to each Spitfire, it makes sense to me to have a Hurricane that is truly connected to the battle, not one that rolled off the production line several years later.

[EyesFront]

Swap for SHARs?

[soddim]

Just who, exactly, had the authority to either give away or swop LF? This Hurricane is part of our national heritage and its' rebuild was entirely in keeping with the need to preserve and maintain it.

The public need to rise to this and make their voices known loud and clear.

[airborne_artist]

This Hurricane is part of our national heritage

And the Mk1 coming our way, with BoB kills is what, then? Even more part of our heritage, I'd wager. I'm told it's coming with enough cash to get it into tip-top shape.

[GeeRam]

I am suprised BAe has not said anything, as it was donated by Hawker to the RAF perhaps one should in future, when donating aicraft to the RAF add a clause that if it is ever to be sold, it must be offered to be returned to the original donating company or individual first, and if they do not want it it can be sold

Wrong Hurricane.....you're thinking of PZ865 - the last Hurricane built.

LF363 is the longest serving RAF aircraft on charge and also the last Hurricane to enter RAF service and the founding aircraft of the flight.

It's shocking that anyone could even dream up the idea, and it's total RAF history is more important and special than a swop for a Mk1 IMHO.....:ugh:

[GPMG]

Outrage bus is leaving in 10 minutes, all aboard, first stop Knee Jerk street, followed by Letters to the Editor Square........

BoB victor beats last one made in a game of Top Trumps :)

[FAN BLADE]

As an ex BBMF groundcrew member of the flight during the 1970's, I am totally amazed that the RAF/Mod are even thinking of this. Perhaps us PPRuNers need to start a campaign to keep her in the UK for the future generations to enjoy as we have. :=:=:=:=

[soddim]

And I suppose, airborne_artist, that the Mk 1 you have in mind has had a full structural integrity check and its' provenance is exactly as stated? Even if this is the case, I am sure that all of us who have either flown LF or maintained it over the years it has been on BBMF would much rather keep the Hurricane that is rightly ours to keep.

The authority to dispose of our national heritage should not be vested lightly. If LF was a public building it would be listed and disposal extremely restricted.

If BBMF continues to sell, lend and swap these precious assets who would blame the MOD for assuming they could get away with removing the flight from the budget altogether?

[FAN BLADE]

For those of you that are unaware of this aircrafts history, here are the facts. For the number of films she appeared in, perhaps we should award an Oscar to her...!!!!!!!

This aircraft is believed to be the last Hurricane ever to enter service with the RAF. It first flew on 1 January 1944; it was delivered to 5 MU on 28 January that year and was in continuous RAF service from then until a crash landing in 1991. The aircraft served with 63, 309 (Polish) and 26 Squadrons before the cessation of hostilities. Unlike many Hurricanes, LF363 was not scrapped but served on various station flights. She also appeared in the films ‘Angels One Five’, ‘Reach for the Sky’ (the story of Group Captain Douglas Bader’s life) and ‘The Battle of Britain’ as well as the television series ‘The War in the Air’. LF363 became a founding member of the RAF Historic Flight at Biggin Hill in July 1957.
On 11 September 1991, whilst en route from Coningsby to Jersey, LF363’s engine suffered a mechanical failure and it started to run rough and to lose power, pouring smoke from the exhaust stubs. The pilot diverted to RAF Wittering but the engine failed completely at a late stage of the approach, resulting in a crash-landing on the airfield. The aircraft was seriously damaged by the crash and the ensuing fierce fire; fortunately the pilot escaped with a broken ankle and minor burns. LF363 was completely re-built by Historic Flying Ltd at Audley End between 1994 and 1998, when it flew again for the first time in seven years, subsequently re-joining the BBMF.
LF 363 currently wears the colours of Hurricane Mk1 P3878 ‘YB-W’, the aircraft of Flying Officer Harold Bird-Wilson of No 17 Squadron during the Battle of Britain. Throughout the Battle, No17 Squadron was in the thick of the action over southern England, mainly based at Debden and Tangmere. ‘Birdy’ had previously had a pre-war flying accident in which he was badly burned, becoming one of the earliest aircrew ‘guinea pig’ patients of the famous, pioneering plastic surgeon, Sir Archibald McIndoe. After his recovery he joined No 17 Squadron in April 1940 and fought continuously through the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, achieving 6 confirmed kills, sharing in the destruction of several others and being awarded a DFC. His luck ran out on 24th September when he became Adolf Galland’s 40th victim and had to bale out of a flaming YB-W over the channel. ‘Birdy’ survived the war and retired as an Air Vice Marshall having been awarded the CBE, DSO, DFC and Bar and the AFC and Bar. He died aged 80 in August 2000.

[SirToppamHat]

We should have swapped it for an SU30MKI ;)

STH

[seafuryfan]

I was dumbstruck when I first read this yesterday but I've had time to reflect on it since. I needed to get over this 'It's ours, by right' attitude. Is it heck.

Why shouldn't we give the Indians, our brothers in arms during WWII, and one of the most populous nations on earth, the chance to obtain and operate one flying Hurricane? We have the resources to restore to flight a genuine Mk1 veteran.

Let's be brave and accept change.

[acmech1954]

Having had the crash and fierce fire at Wittering( although I seem to remember Wyton:confused:), how much of the machine is 'origonal' compared with the one from India ??

[Wholigan]

Definitely Wittering. I was there at the time and first on the scene, very closely followed by the fire crews. He was a VERY lucky chap as he was thrown pretty much clear on impact and rescued just before the aircraft went up in a ball of flame. Having seen the resulting remains, I would question just how much of the current aircraft is the "original" aircraft that has "served continuously" etc. It must have been a real labour of love to bother restoring it actually.

[Samuel]

I hate to disagree Jacko, but the New Zealand Hurricane is a significant aircraft to both the UK and New Zealand in that it is a genuine 23 Sqn aircraft that flew in the BoB, and there is at least one NZ pilot in the South Island who has it in his logbook. Why it would be a good idea to buy it and give it India escapes me!

You also didn't give NZ a B[I]8 Canberra, but a part of one, the nose section!

The IAF does have a few of the ex-RNZAF B12s, and we'd like one of those if anyone is feeling generous!

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/Flight_Line_Tengah_Vanguard_X.jpg

[Samuel]

The Hurricane in question.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/Hurricane.jpg

[Jackonicko]

Samuel,

No, we gave New Zealand a whole '8. WT346, if memory serves. Straight from the museum at Cosford. We should never have done so, as it was the RAF's last proper frontline bomber Canberra.

You bug.gers have just never bothered to reassemble it.

And the chances of getting a real ex RNZAF Canberra may be remote. India got rid of its B(I)12s before the end of the Canberra in India - all the last fighter cockpit aircraft were 8s and 58s.

As to the NZ Hurricane, who knew? The fact is that you can't miss what you never had, and the RAF BBMF never had it, so buying it for India seems like less of a loss. India's also nearer to NZ than the UK is.

[Front Pit]

For the number of films she appeared in, perhaps we should award an Oscar to her...!!!!!!!

Nominated......... As best supporting actress?!!

LF363 also starred in the 1957 film 'The One That Got Away' which is apparently about to be re-made as a Bollywood film!! ;)

Nothing yet mentioned on the BBMF website, perhaps they haven't been told by the bureaucrat who made the decision. :E Hope she get's to have one more air show season or at the very least a farewell show. :D

[jaganpvs]

And the chances of getting a real ex RNZAF Canberra may be remote. India got rid of its B(I)12s before the end of the Canberra in India - all the last fighter cockpit aircraft were 8s and 58s.


Not really. One of them is still here (http://www.warbirds.in/maharashtra/pune/113-canberra-f1188.html) in india

[Samuel]

Jacko, WT 346 wasn't "given" to the RNZAF Musem. Cosford sold it to a London scrap dealer! However, the RNZAF Museum at Christchurch, NZ, were looking for a B(I)8 at that time and managed to secure it, thus saving it from becoming a frying pan. You should be grateful!

The aircraft was dismantled and shipped to NZ in April 1993 and is currently in store at their Museum...admittedly in bits! As they already have a Canberra on display, albeit an Australian one, they might sell it back to you!

Personally, I would prefer it to be reassembled and displayed because it at least looks like a B12.

[GeeRam]

I would question just how much of the current aircraft is the "original" aircraft that has "served continuously" etc.

Actually quite a lot was used in the rebuild, largely as a result of Al Martin's flying skills.
All of the fuselage fittings, most of the original structural centre section, including the rear spar, big chunks of the inner wings, most of the undercarriage parts, and most of the control systems were re-used.

[FAN BLADE]

Perhaps BBMF should now mean...!!!!!!!!

Bring Back My Fighter

My father served on various Hurricane Sqns during WW11 as an engine fitter, and whilst we were attending the IAT at Greenham Common in the 70's, I invited him to sit in the cockpit of LF363 prior to our display that day. The resulting pictures that were taken said it all, the biggest grin I ever saw and a tear for all his sqn members that never returned from operations.

Up until the day he passed away in 2000, he always remarked that was one day he never forgot and having followed in my fathers footsteps in joining the RAF as an engine fitter, I shall never forget it also.

This aircraft was a founder member of the flight in 1957 and therefore should remain to be operated by the BBMF.

[Wholigan]

Thanks GeeRam, surprised and impressed.

[Jackonicko]

jaganpvs,

That's a B(I)8 (possibly with a B(I)12's wings).

Samuel,

Another triumph by the Historic Aircraft Committee, if true, which makes it pertinent to this argument.

[mystic_meg]

"Hello, welcome to the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, and thank you for phoning our outsourcing partners in India. To hear a Hurricane, please press 1, to hear a Spitfire, please press 2...." etc.etc :ok:

[NutLoose]

Surviving Canberra in store is here

CANBERRA - B(I)8 - WT346 (http://www.bywat.co.uk/wt346.html)

from

CANBERRA - SURVIVORS (http://www.bywat.co.uk/canb06.html)

[bobstuck]

There has been some serious knee-jerk reactions and misinformed opinion on this thread. I speak with some authority when I state that this aircraft swap has not yet been given the official go-ahead (it sits at the highest levels at present). If the decision to go ahead is granted, the BBMF will not lose Hurricane LF363 until the replacement Hurricane Mk1 refurbishment to airworthy standard is complete (paid for by the Indian Air Force) and the BBMF has a 'flyer'. (The BBMF cannot operate effectively with only one Hurricane). In return the Indian Air Force get a MkIIC Hurricane of the type that they operated during WWII. The BBMF get a genuine BofB veteran Hurricane in airworthy condition to fly alongside the only BofB Spitfire still flying (P7350). It's a no-brainer! Fingers crossed it all works out.

[soddim]

Was that from OC BBMF or his PRO?

[Jackonicko]

Does it matter who it was from?

It was cogent, logical, reasoned, polite and restrained.

Blo.ody good first post!

[soddim]

Jacko, how do you know it was his first post - and don't give me the obvious answer.

Whilst the deal to swop LF has some merit, both aircraft are part of the RAF's heritage from WW2 - neither have the same relevance to any other country. Is the Indian Hurri for sale?

This swop should not be the RAF's decision or the MOD's - like the EC Constitution the British public should be consulted.

[Jackonicko]

The Historic Aircraft Committee should certainly not be allowed to make the decision after the Beverley/B(I)8/Insert favoured cock-up here.

But the "Great British Public" making the decision?

Genuine BoB Hurri exchanged for late war Hurri with less interesting history (and which may be entirely new build, apart from the dataplate and a few parts), but which is more interesting to India?

Isn't that quite a good deal?

[RileyDove]

It would be an interesting deal if you intended to put the Hurricane MK.I straight into a museum. However to restore her to flying condition you could well replace 80% of her tubes -all of her woodwork -engine and sundry other parts . You then risk a 'genuine' BoB Hurricane in the air when you could do put a machine like the Manston Hurricane II back in the air instead which has a far lesser history but would look virtually identical to the MK.I

[Icare9]

There has been some serious knee-jerk reactions and misinformed opinion on this thread.
Bobstuck. Thanks for posting your extremely lucid reply, but the answer is obvious!

This story has been in the public domain for days now and there has been no "official" comment about a reported "swap" of historic aircraft. Surely it had to be patently obvious that such an emotive issue as the BBMF is of high importance to military flying enthusiasts such as on here and many other similar websites? Nothing had appeared on the BBMF website or from RAF sources. The PR Dept had obviously been caught asleep on the job and still haven't put out an official version.

Now we know from your statement that the swap will not happen until the Indian Hurricane is airworthy at the cost of the Indian Air Force. That allays many of our concerns, but the fact remains that there are aircraft which are of historic importance to this Country and more should be here, not the same number or less.

Despite the best will and care, inevitably some of these airframes are going to either meet with an accident or need extensive down time to maintain them in flying condition. The more airframes to spread the load, the longer they may continue to fly, performing as star attractions wherever they appear, whether Air Shows or Remembrance ceremonies.

That's my underlying concern, having to face a time when we WON''T have a Lancaster, Spitfire or Hurricane flying. I don't see a Dakota or Chipmunk as having anything like the emotive pull (even if re-engined with Merlins just to keep the sound alive!!).

Perhaps it is time for a complete re think as to what airframes need to be retained in flying condition and to find means of ensuring they stay that way.

[Jackonicko]

Riley Dove raises an interesting point.

Even if we accept that it's a good idea to fly the rarer warbird types, should we fly the most historic examples? A Battle of Britain Spitfire, for example, rather than a PRXIX or a non operational Mark IX?

How many of the 'punters' know or care about the difference?

If we had Guy Gibson's Dambusting Lanc should it be flown, or kept safe in a museum?

I don't have a firm opinion either way, personally.

[GPMG]

According to FlyPast, there were 4 Hurricanes at that meet.

Some posts here are remenisant of a child wanting all of the toys and not sharing. If the Indian Hurri is restored before we send ours abroad then the public will not lose out, it will gain a better airframe, a more modern restoration, far better history and the world gains another airframe. Any hint that the Indians will not look after the airframe speaks of an underlying personal attitude, not knowledge.

England did not win WW2 alone, it was a a massive effort from many countries. Why should we keep all of the trophies?

If the deal is as good as Bobstuck alludes to then some people need to grow up.

[Jackonicko]

Indeed.

By the time LF363 was delivered, the Hurricane was an unimportant 'used to be' for the RAF. We'd be gaining an example of the Hurricane from when the aircraft was really vitally important to our national survival, and India would be getting an example of the Hurricane that was more relevant to them.

Win-win, surely?

[GeeRam]

If we had Guy Gibson's Dambusting Lanc should it be flown, or kept safe in a museum?

Had it not been scrapped without a thought in 1947 at Scampton after sitting out on the outskirts of the airfield for several years......


I'm obviously in the minority in thinking that this will now turn the BBMF into a civilian trade a plane warbird organisation rather than a respector of it's heritage. And 65 years of it's RAF service and AVM Vincents personal crusade in saving LF that eventually ended up with the creation of the 'Flight' ten years later is worth more than going all goggle-eyed over a foreign manufactured aircraft that had such a short RAF career...whether that's the Battle of Britain or not.

[herkman]

No comments have been made on the great effort that has been made by the IAF to the world population of historic airframes.

For example the majority of original B24 population came from airframes saved from the junkyards of their country.

Even more examples of rare british airplanes have been made available from India over the years and the history of aircraft has been enriched by the movement of aircraft from India often with no trade forthcoming.

At the end of the day the aviation world is a little richer and what is far more important that an extension of time has been given, to the sound and viewing of an aircraft type which can only get rarer as time moves on.

The move by the IAF to continue to allow these aircraft to be flown and viewed is a great addition to aviation history in general.

Let us also not forget that IAF crews, lived and served often far from home, so that we too enjoiy the freedom we enjoy.

This situation looks like a good win win situation to all involved.

Regards

Col

[Lou Scannon]

The true story of P7350 is that it was indeed a Battle of Britain Spitfire and flew with 266 Squadron. One pilot at the time was Sqn Ldr Tubby Mermegan.

It was rebuilt following a major accident and at the end of the war was flown into a MU at RAF Colerne near Bath along with hundreds of other aircraft.

The scap metal dealers who's name escapes me but were from Collingdale near London, recognised it as a Bof B aircraft and gave it back to the RAF who were reportedly rather reluctant to accept it. It would otherwise have been broken up/melted down for scrap.

It remained, unloved at the back of one of the blister hangars and eventually got dragged out into the open air for RAF open days. The MU then added a Heinkel 162, Me163 and a Meteor 4 that had just got overlooked and the four were dragged out once more in 1964 for the RAF at home day.

An enterprising young co-pilot on Hastings aircraft then managed to collect many other aircraft including a Hurricane 11C, Sea Fury, etc and formed a museum.

In 1966 or so he received a 'phone call from some people who wanted to know what state it was in as they were prepared to rebuild it for some film that was being shot. After which it would be given to the BofB flight.

So...it was by pure chance that a real Bof B aircraft had been saved for the Nation and we have an unknown scrap metal firm's foreman to thank not the
RAF!

[Human Factor]

If the Indian Hurri is restored before we send ours abroad then the public will not lose out, it will gain a better airframe, a more modern restoration, far better history and the world gains another airframe.

If that is the case, it sounds like a cracking deal. Given that a reliable source in the warbird world has let on to me what else is on offer, the sooner the IAF gets hold of the MkII, the better. To precis, there may be "some" Lancaster and Mozzie parts on offer as well allegedly.

[Evalu8ter]

Human Factor,
A tantalising prospect. Would the enthusiasts on here take umbridge at losing, say, the MkV or MkIX Spitfire to add a Mosquito project to the Flight?

[The Unknown Stuntman]

it never stopped them getting rid of 6 sqn

[dmussen]

To all,
As Winston has put it on paper one must read history carefuly prior to making comment.
I have had the pleasure of failing a final handling test on the Gnat with a guy who hacked F-86s up Punjab way. Not bad I would say.(passed second time around.)
Given the hard work and sacrifice of all the people who have tried to keep the planet safe I would offer the thought that there is no better place for this aircraft.
Read some history folks and get a grip on what has happened on this planet.
Sleep tight tonight.
B1a

[PanzerJohn]

I wonder where the IAF will get the funds to get this Hurri flyable as they have grounded their once airworthy Spitfire?.

[GPMG]

Hurricane's, well we have a small few of them in the air and enthusiasts in the UK can see them in their natural element if they wish.

But page 6 of the latest Flypast tells of a more worrying loss.

Supermarine Walrus W2718 is in Essex for fabric covering, once finished and with a bit more work, it will be ready for flight.

It will then head to the US.

Surely it should remain here as part of the BoB flight thanks to it's services in saving many pilots lives in WW2.

I am not sure but I do not think the UK has a flying Walrus, and if this goes beyond our circuit then surely this is more serious.

[spindrier]

In this age it amazes me that we are leeching our meagre resourses to support the BBMF - it was over 60 years ago; let us move on! Yes it saved the nation, however, we are mortgaging capability now to keep this out moded memory alive!! What next! - a memorial to the cold war!! Oh yes I forgot we have an airworthy Vulcan - genius!!
Let us plough our resourses into keeping the campaign in Afg on an even keel and if there is any money left over, then the non-life saving ideas can come to the fore.

Pin out awaiting reply...

[Front Pit]

In this age it amazes me that we are leeching our meagre resourses to support the BBMF - it was over 60 years ago; let us move on!

spindrier you should go away and put your RESOURCES into something else, for a start I'd suggest with your favourite helicopter. This is about Adults who appreciate and wish to remember what others did for us and the many who gave the ultimate sacrifice to retain our freedom. They should be remembered along with the aircraft they flew -- LEST WE FORGET

[JEM60]

GPMG. No flying Walrus anywhere in the world.

[GPMG]

So when there is a flying Walrus, it will be doing so several thousand miles away from where it operated, great.

Spindrier, isn't it about time that the French stopped remembering and let the graves crumble and removed those silly 'ditches' that dot around the Somme area. Those places in Dachau and Auschwitz are an 'eye saw' as well, lets build some nice houses on the land.......tit.