Oxford Students

[wwejosh]

Hello everyone,
I was just looking for some opinions on how the Oxford trained pilots go when looking for jobs in GA?
Do they have an equal chance against someone with the same experience that attended another school?
I ask this as most entry level jobs won't have the G1000 setup.
As well as their training goals are more orientated around airline SOPS.

Thanks

[flypy]

You've used a lot of words there to say "I have no fkn idea" soseg...

wwejosh : I did a bit of training at Oxford/GFS and know quite a few of the current instructors, so I understand your dilemma.

It really comes down to what you think or hope you'll be doing afterwards. If you're going to be an instructor and hang around at Oxford or MFS or similar, its not a problem, and you'll be placed in good stead with your experience.

If you want to go bush, you'll need to spend some time on standard gauge aircraft. Operators will have their own preferences, but even for your own flying standards and safety, you'll need to get out of the ********-proof full size GPS and train your eyes where to look for stuff, especially moving from the tape style Airspeed and Altimeter readings to circular gauges.

The thing is, if you do want to go bush, you'll need to do some 206/210 time or similar anyway, which Oxford dont have, and which are very rarely G1000. Alternatively, if you do your multi endorsement at Oxford you'll be flying the Semen-holes which have steam gauges.


As for the SOPs question, I wouldn't worry about it. You'll probably use some sort of SOPs through your career even in GA, so some exposure to them is not negative.

Lastly I would say, just remember there is a big wide world outside the rather cushy Oxford environment, where you have to do more difficult things than land a leather-seated G1000 on a big wide tarmac runway, so if you get the chance, get some other experience.

[flypy]

soseg: What makes you think they have such a good reputation? That's absolute crap. The only reputation they have outside of MB is for being able to screw their instructors and churn out students who are quite one-dimensional.

Ever since they brought in the G1000s, stopped all unsealed ops and had a million cadets going through the standard was always going to slip. Now hear me, they do churn out "safe" pilots, but probably not very highly skilled ones who have their abilities really tested.

[muffman]

I've dealt with a number of former students of the said organisation. Most of them are top blokes and good workers, no different standards-wise to any other newbie I've encountered. The only negative I've seen in quite a few of them is that they're blinkered to the real world of GA and are too used to the rarified environment of brand new aeroplanes and having plenty of money around. I once had to interrupt a group of them discussing what sort of captains they were going to be to get them to move an aeroplane and none of them would lift a finger until booted up the arse. :ugh:

So make the most of the training, enjoy the nice aeroplanes, but don't think that's how the rest of GA is - when you come out of the pilot factory you'll be a **** kicker just like we all are with 200hrs! Don't be afraid to get your hands dirty.:ok:

[tmpffisch]

Oxford doesn't allow unsealed ops? There's an indication right there.

[the air up there]

G1000 glass cockpit hey. Well have a good look because it will the last time you see one for a very long time if you go charter as they dont last long in the bush, or operators cant afford them. Grab an aircraft with steam gauges and head off on a trip.

No gravel/grass/unprepared action, get some of that. If you have never seen a dirt strip your in for a rude shock if you head north and your in the desert, kimberley or arnhemland areas as most strips around there (even the bigger strips) are gravel, so a bit of airmanship (airperson for the ladies) on them will really impress the CP.

PS: If my boss gets a phone call from another newbie pilot that emphasises the glass cockpit training in brand new aircraft, I think he will cry. We dont operate glass cockpits, "how does that help us?" is what he asks.

So get some exposure to older sort of aircraft as everyone here is saying there is a slight difference between the analog and glass, pack your swag in your car and head off. And if you see a dirty flogged out 206/210 parked at a fuel bowser or tied down somewhere that you would not take your girlfriend for a holiday, then talk to the operator or the pilot, that may be your first job.

Best of luck, stick with it and you will get something.

[XanaduX]

Oxford doesn't allow unsealed ops?

Don't want to get them pretty C172R wheel pants dirty do we? :E

[flypy]

tmpffsch: When the new G1000s came in around early 2006 it was stopped. Pretty disappointing, but i guess they saved on props and figured that the overseas cadets didnt need the experience anyway. Apparently they do occasional T&Gs at YOLA if supervised by instructors but certainly not solo. I think a remote operator would find it pretty hard to employ a tarmac baby.

XanaduX: That'd be 172S mate! All the Rs are steam gauge and have gone to better homes.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

I find alot of the aforementioned pretty disturbing especially for the new pilot about to choose a course-wwejosh.


The thing about unsealed ops is true, however with permission from authority there can be exceptions made.

Oxford is trying to prepare pilots for the airlines- hence glass cockpits, King airs, 300 page sops etc and taking in so many cadets is just a pretty obvious example of this.

It is NOT your local flying school like some others at YMMB where youll just chill all day and come in whatever you want and fly when you want. There is a certain order of discipline at Oxford because after all this is what pilots are meant to have and what is meant to prepare them for a long career namely as an Airline Pilot!:)

[j3pipercub]

You're my hero nkand

j3

[muffman]

See what I mean? :ugh:

[Glass]

Nkand. If you think the kind of discipline the airlines are after will be instilled in you from doing a course at oxford, rather than working your butt off in GA for 5 years, you're in for a rude shock.
Good luck with that.

[vee1-rotate]

I have wondered, how, the past few years, the large percentage of Oxford students who DON'T end up getting a job straight away in airlines, manage to survive out in the real world, operating in non-glass cockpit aircraft, operating from skinny little dirt/gravel strips etc etc, with no ADF, when this has been all they have known since their first hour of flying training?

I know a few oxford students, and was gobsmacked to see how much they rely on the moving map displays and other tech wizadry in the cockpit when I backseated a nav with one student a few months ago. Getting thrown into an old steam driven C210 with basic avionics and not much else must be quite a shock to some of them heading north to get hours!

[the air up there]

Nkand, a couple of things.

How many of your mates are now in the airlines?
How many have acceptance and start dates with the airlines?
How many of your mates are now in GA?
How many are unemlpoyed?

You have just proved your ignorance in the world of aviation. I don't intend to be harsh, but sit back and think about it. There are guys with many thousands of hours out there applying to airlines, with thousands of hours COMMAND, in aircraft that aren't always shiny. Learning airline SOP's is not going to be hard for them.

From my mates in the airlines the cadets are not despised, but certainly not looked upon with envy by captains and FO's that have done the GA or military route. The stories I heard about Qlink and its trainee's with 250-300hrs were downright scary.

What I'm saying is you won't be prepared for airline from the school your at or any school really. I am not saying that Oxford is a bad school, but to imply that you will be prepared for an airline gig when you finish it with 200hrs in a 172, please.

[solowflyer]

All this preparing you for the airlines rubbish that flying schools are jamming down naive students throats these days is just marketing crap and totally inappropriate for the Australian and NZ aviation environment where there is a very strong focus on working in GA before moving into the airlines.

Unlike the UK and rest of the world where it is not uncommon for fresh cpls to jump straight into a jet, down under here 95% of people will go through the GA ranks. This may change in the future but is still a long long way off.

The reality is the first few years of your career you will be landing on other than sealed strips and will usually be flying old aircraft (ok there are the odd operator with new airvans etc) with steam driven gauges, You will be filling your own aircraft out of drums and bowsers, you will be filling out your own MRs and keeping track of your own Flight and Duty times, you will be washing planes and mopping up spew. Why don't flying schools teach this stuff anymore as this is what will happen in the real world. Not walking about posing in uniforms with a shoulder full of ****** bars telling all who will listen how easy it is to become an airline pilot.:ugh:

Unless you have the ability to up stumps and move over seas all you blokes and blokeets out there will be in for a real shock once you have a nice freshly printed licence in your hands.

As for the original question posted You will find that that a licence is a licence at the end of the day and no one really cares if you flew glass or steam but your future employer will be expecting you to be able to handle yourself or adapt quickly to unfamiliar aircraft and strips. My advice is to get out of your comfort zone and get familiar with other aircraft ie 206/210 and find an instructor who will show you the in's and outs of a real operational environment.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

to the above posters,

my point wasnt to say that I or indeed any of my fellow pilots would jump with 200 hrs in a 172 into the RHS of a 737. That stuff happens in India:ugh:

My point is that Oxford prepares you for the future possibility of a jet job/airline pilot career. Alot of graduates have subsequently gotten cadetships and traineeships and some are in GA. It really depends- to say though that this is the wrong way to train as many above have suggested is totally absurbed and you can clearly tell the whingers above- i did GA this, that- there are many routes and that is one option.. not THE only option!

[solowflyer]

I think you will find myself and those above speak from experience. Take the advice if you like or ignore it no skin off my nose.

[Tempo]

Out of interest nkand....how does a flying school prepare you for an airline career? What do they do that is SO different to any other flying school?

[solowflyer]

Exactly Tempo It is all just marketing BS that flying schools bleat out all the time not just Oxford just about all of them. That is why Hungry Jacks is usually the next job for these guys that have gone out into the real world with eyes wide shut after being feed all this airline crap from flying schools.

[GADRIVR]

Geez you blokes are harsh!!!!:confused:
Nkand.....generally speaking I've been kinda impressed with the product thats been turned out by GFS/Oxford over the last few years. Standards and procedure driven students can't be all bad!
I'm not that sure that flying a glass cockpit over steam driven is an advantage or disadvantage. You're flying VFR in your commercial training so you really shouldn't be looking at the dials for more than 5% of the time.
Unless you jag yourself an airline job with a couple of hundred hours (HIGHLY unlikely)......sorry mate , it's off to GA and all the fun that it entails!!!.
GFS/Oxford wouldn't prepare you any better than any other "reputable" school for an airline job so I'd be on this forum, ringing mates in GA, going for a drive around the traps to try for your first GA job now....not when you're finished.

"As for the original question posted You will find that that a licence is a licence at the end of the day and no one really cares if you flew glass or steam but your future employer will be expecting you to be able to handle yourself or adapt quickly to unfamiliar aircraft and strips. My advice is to get out of your comfort zone and get familiar with other aircraft ie 206/210 and find an instructor who will show you the in's and outs of a real operational enviroment"
Probably the best advice given here I think.
Good luck....any further questions., PM me:ok:

[FL170]

I met a guy who went through GFS and I must say the first time I saw him fly I had never seen anything like it.

The methodical out-loud checks typical of a multi crew environment were apparent, the briefs, reciting figures off his head he knew to heart, flawless radio transmissions...but then..

A gun-ho thinker, no mechanical common sense on how to take care of the machine that is keeping you in the sky, no appreciation for the beauty of flight instead a reliance on the electronics that keep the plane in order for you and the list doesn't stop there.

I am in no way generalising all who come out of GFS/Oxford however if these are the habits that have been picked up along the way it wont take long to come unstuck. You might find yourself a gig but whether you last is another thing.

[HEALY]

I agree with the point raised about "how does a company prepare you for airline operations".

Having now spent 18 months in a major airline flying 744 after the GA path I have noticed the following.
1) A 300 page Ops manual for an airline really at the end of the day is set out no differently than a respectable GA / regional airline. It has the same ole waffle and blah blah blah that comes with writing a legal document.

2) The airline looks after your duty times and manages your renewals and medical expiry dates. They tell you with enough notice to sort it out.

3) Recency is taken care of (to a point)

4) You have a fraction of the things you needed to consider and worry about than when your flying GA and regionals


So really, how do you teach people a person to prepare for the airlines when really its nowhere near as difficult as GA. The things I experienced in GA as well really have helped in alot of bigger picture things that Ive so far experienced in my limited time in the Airlines....and that includes gravel operations and steam driven instruments.

[eocvictim]

I cant speak for how Oxford and former GFS students are looked on in the GA personally. However I do know many ex GFS instructors and some are the most talented aviators I've ever met. Able to switch between aircraft types and models with ease.

One of the biggest hurdles you're going to come across is aircraft conformity. I know 99% of the current and ex GA guys here can confirm that within one company you may have up to 10 layouts within one A/C model let alone dealing with the difference between the A/C models.

Having flown aircraft with little or no conformity and in companies with several different models its not easy but not a problem to jump between twins/singles, turbines/piston or conventional/glass. I cant say that I wouldn't be able to do so if I'd been brought up on conformed aircraft of the same model but it certainly helped in the beginning.

[seaeagle2323]

how much is a c172 dual there?

[flypy]

soseg: Your points are semi valid, but be honest - you don't really know, because you haven't flown anywhere else, you've just heard "on the airwaves", "from a mate" about how it goes on somewhere else.

I agree that it is for the most part down to the individual and their commitment and abilities, but there are a lot (and an increasing number) of sausages being churned out of Oxford who are not taught to think for themselves and are lacking in real GA experience. The gravel runway at YOLA is not real GA experience btw.

[The Green Goblin]

I can assure you nkand learning to fly a G1000 172 in a flying school compared to Airline operations is like chalk and cheese.

The best way to prepare yourself for Airline operations is to go and get some experience. You will encounter bad weather, tech issues and unruly passengers which will develop your decision making skills as a future Airline pilot.

At the end of the day you fly the aircraft how your boss wants the aircraft flown and every company has different expectations and rules of thumb. It's all about being able to adapt your flying to take into account how you are being told to operate the aircraft.

I would suggest you are being given an unreal perspective of the industry which will only come as a rude shock when you finally learn what it really is.

Coming up through the GA ranks I thought it was a novelty to have a HSI and RMI instead of a DG and Fixed card ADF! A 430 was considered a luxury but a G1000??? Sheeeeeesh

[myshoutcaptain]

Goblin - let alone something relevant on that RMI ...

Maybe compare the G1000 info to a WAC chart ... no vtc's out here.

[the air up there]

soseg. Stop and think. Everyone here is giving their opinion. But it sounds like everyone here has done GA in some form. To think you know better than them on what will place you in a good postion in the industry is naive and arrogant. People are trying to help you see out of the bubble that flying schools surround their students in, I wish I had been told these facts of life as it would have eased the shock and frustration of GA.

As for your statement about your experience into unsealed strips, I can't comment alot as I haven't seen them. But your a student, how many tight, dirt strips have you been on.

[Fonz121]

As someone who went to GFS for most of my training and to another smaller GA school for the rest of my training here's my 2cents.

I found GFS to be a good school overall and they are very SOP orientated. I did my training there back before they got the glass cockpits so I can't comment on those but the 172's we flew were latest models and had all the latest equipment.

As has been said the fees were/are very high and really, the only thing you're paying extra for as opposed to another school is the equipment you fly. The std of training was nothing amazing. They, like every other school still had a number of low experienced/airline wannabe instructors so to say the training was any better then another school is wrong. We also had to pay a $2000 administration fee as part of our course which at the time I didn't question but now look back at and shake my head at.

I then went to another school for further training and I started to regret paying all that money to GFS for the privilege of flying their new 172's around.

The training at the new school was just as good and the SOP's were just as good. The only difference now, was that the aircraft were considerably older, and of course the prices were literally half of what they were with GFS. I could have saved $30,000 if only I'd done all my training at this new smaller school.

I also found the new aircraft at GFS had a negative impact on flying actual industry aircraft. One example is one time, when I was flying an older model 172, the alternator light came on and I didn't have a clue as to what to do. Because nothing ever broke in the sparkling new GFS machines we were never taught how to deal with any problems such as these.

So while GFS was in no way a bad school, If I did my time again I would def. not go there as you can get the same product and better realistic industry aircraft experience from going to a smaller outfit and all for half the price!

[flypy]

No worries soseg, have it your way mate.

The funniest thing about Oxford students is that they can go through life never having had to refuel a plane themselves...

Doesn't it just come on a Shell truck!?


Last time I flew at what was then GFS, a G1000 172 was $240 an hour solo, probably over 300 dual. So probably now $300 solo, $400 dual :ugh:

[Bla Bla Bla]

Soseg,

Come on reply some more, because its really entertaining to watch young guys with little experience get all wound up on pprune.

Oh and can you make your replies a little longer!

[j3pipercub]

This is awesome. Thanks for the enlightenment soseg. Keep it up, very entertaining in a laugh out loud, did I once think like that sort of way.

GG you don't know sh1t. A 172 is sooooo like a jet. Just put a cardboard FMC in between the two front seats and I couldn't tell the difference

Fonzie, good balanced post.

[flypy]

Ah yes, the "flyaway" of course, how could I forget. Such invaluable straight line experience that is. I guess that is useful for the airlines though.

Look forward to working with you one day soseg. You can shout out the SOPs while I hook up the CD player on the Audio AUX IN.... :8

[j3pipercub]

A CD player, Flypy, you should be ashamed of yourself listening to music on a CD PLAYER WHILST FLYING!!!!! THAT IS AN UTTER DISGRACE, PILOTS LIKE YOU SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT AND SHOT, Cos an Ipod works much better. :}

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Soseg,

thought id pm you but more pertinent to say it here.

Don't worry about these ********, they are all whingers who probably have gotten nowhere in their careers and are extremely jealous. I've been flying for 4 years and have come across many of the same people who post on this thread in real life and its people often who have a chip on their shoulder who feel the need to degrade organizations and demote people for flying at a reputable school.

Can give an example of some guy i met who was insistent on convincing me to do my flying at a school in port macquarie- no matter what i said, everywhere else taught IFR flying poorly and youd get nowhere if you didnt go to this place etc etc. Narrow minded opiniated people like this posting above.

What i can say is- whether those above like it or not- aviation is changing rapidly and MPL is coming to Australia whether you care or not. Looking at qf link traineeship of 07/08 which yielded quite a few of Oxford graduates and other programs no doubt to come in the future things have markedly changed. If I go to say Qantas in 2-3 yrs and they can see I have trained at the same organization they put their cadets through and their qf link trainees dont you think it would be ringing bells about the way a person was trained- considering thats how they wanted their cadets trained!

I can totally understand that GA experience is invaluable and from my perspective I can't comment on the GA scene- and hence I haven't!!! But to say the sort of thing said above about Oxford without having EVER been to the place, EVER trained here or observed ops is absurb and downright ridiculous.

I invite anyone who wishes to see the flying school to send me a PM and i will personally show you around and tell you what it is and is not- but one things for sure- the misconception of the school as posted above is pretty evident!

[Back Pressure]

CDs ??? Ipods ??? What the hell are you blokes doing ??? Aren't you listening out for the engine of the V-tail Bonanza about to chop you in half from behind ? :=

BP

[j3pipercub]

Only on the ground, but I'd love to see him catch me once airborne:}:}:}

[flypy]

the Dr doesn't seem to come to Vic very much..


And right on time, nkand comes back. Mate, I flew at GFS/Oxford too, I could run the tour too.... "This is where you bend over, this where you wait with 30 other cadets for your flight, here are the stifling un airconditioned classrooms where you'll do your theory lessons"...

oops, maybe they have AC now.

I don't know what part of soseg's life we're supposed to be jealous of, but if its training at Oxford..... nah I'm not jealous of him. If he had a job, maybe I could find some green envy in my heart, somewhere. :)

[j3pipercub]

nkand, you're awesome, 4 years and only just getting your MECIR? I wish I could be near you to absorb some of your awesomeness. Good luck with your MPL. When you get it you can be a SO and get the ATIS and help out in first class when they're a bit busy...

[PPRuNeUser0163]

nkand, you're awesome, 4 years and only just getting your MECIR? I wish I could be near you to absorb some of your awesomeness. Good luck with your MPL. When you get it you can be a SO and get the ATIS and help out in first class when they're a bit busy...

Actually retard i didnt have the money to fly when i first started flying so i worked and flew once every 1-2 months. Hence why its been a while. Recently enrolled in a full time course.

go get a life ********

[Bla Bla Bla]

soseg,

What do you mean post something constructive, I wanted this pointless crap to escalate and it has. So hence by getting a rise out of you the post was quite constructive. Thanks keep it up

[j3pipercub]

Nkand

No worries, so if self funded why go to one of the most expensive schools around? The whole cos Qantas trains there? Seriously? Don't worry I still think you're awesome.

For the record though I do have a life. It Revolves mainly around PPRUNe and birching myself in the dark while listening to Bob Seger's Nightmoves. When I'm not doing that I drive around to all the local fast food restaurants and service stations in four bars on each shoulder, big shiny wings and Ray Bans hoping with all my heart that someone, anyone will ask if I'm a pile-it. I almost always get asked to leave immediately as I have a habit of forgetting to put on pants. I scare the children apparantely.

And I'm not a ******** I'm actually a f$#%@@ c$#@$#@$##$@. Just had to correct you on that one

j3

[flypy]

For the record though I do have a life. It Revolves mainly around PPRUNe and birching myself in the dark while listening to Bob Seger's Nightmoves. When I'm not doing that I drive around to all the local fast food restaurants and service stations in four bars on each shoulder, big shiny wings and Ray Bans hoping with all my heart that someone, anyone will ask if I'm a pile-it. I almost always get asked to leave immediately as I have a habit of forgetting to put on pants. I scare the children apparantely.

Now that is something to be jealous of! :} I prefer Rod Stewart in the darker moments though.

[Bla Bla Bla]

Wow I nearly got dragged into this but have edited my post its more fun just to read.

Hey try five gold bars each side as I find I get more attention and some scrabbled egg on your hat.

[The Green Goblin]

This thread is priceless!

I'll sit back on beer number 9 and let the good times role!

I'm gen Y (just) but sheeeesh there is a big gap between the upper and lower portions of it!

I bet your facebook profile has a picture of you with a headset strapped on too :ugh:

[flypy]

Haha right next to a status of: "Went first solo today... 737 is just around the corner" :cool:

[Bla Bla Bla]

Green goblin'

Couldn't agree more I would imagine that the face book picture would be stood in front of an aircraft they don't even fly yet just to let there friends put two and two together.:ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Haha right next to a status of: "Went first solo today... 737 is just around the corner"

hahahhaha so true

Except it will be "A380 next, command just around the corner"

10 years later - "The douchbags are making me fly one of those little pesky 737s at least it still has a toilet though"

[flypy]

Care to tell how you gained all your solo hours after you got your PPL towards your CPL? What are you trying to imply with that sarcasm? That cross country naving for a PPL student is worthless while they gain hours and imrpove their VFR flying skills?

The problem with the flyaway is that most of them go on straight line routes, set the GPS, set TOCs and TODs, switch on the autopilot and then just log the hours. That's not experience, and doesn't improve VFR skills. Experience is sh!t weather, DR navving without a GPS, landing an aircraft at a high gross weight on an unprepared strip, making decisions for yourself. If it really adds to the discussion, I did some interstate flying and a lot of DR navs to strips other than YLTV. I nearly died once in a VFR into IMC incident, good experience to have that one.

I wasn't aware I was trying make you jealous

You weren't, your mate/partner-in-crime nkand said that we must all be jealous of you. Dunno why.

but its idiots like flypy who mightve had a bad experience with the school (I'd assume through fault of his own)

My experience wasn't that bad, its just that my eyes were opened significantly after I left, and my field of experience widened. That's all i've ever said about it, and I don't think that's unreasonable. Oxford/Basair/RMIT whatever, the experiences are one-dimensional and too often unrealistic. If that makes me an idiot so be it. Oxford has some good people there, CFI is a top guy and as I said before, I know plenty of people there who I count as friends. But they see the deficiences as well.

This thread is pointless now.

A thread that is fun is never pointless :=

[damo1089]

Pprune is so entertaining sometimes...

I go to Oxford, because of Feehelp. I dont have 80K lying around, sure they charge through the roof, but I dont have 50K either, so it is the best option for me.

I don't know anything about other flying schools, GA or whatever else outside of Oxford.

I dont think that using analog instruments over the PFD is harder, or easier, just different.

I know that there are no G1000's in the bush, and yes, it is a bit silly people getting too used nav moding everywhere, which is why I personally like to avoid it. I want to be the best pilot I can be, and watching a blip of a plane follow a line all by itself for an hour is not very beneficial, our 182s apparantly fly their own circuits :ugh:

Also, I for one know that it will be a very long road to the airline career which I am ultimately aiming for, and can see the ignorance of some others in my course. But who cares? Everyone will learn that it is not an easy road, and that shiny screens are not in every plane, whether they learn this sooner or later, really dosn't matter does it? The people that can adapt to new aircraft and new environments, step out of their confort zone and put in the hard yards will be the most successful, and yes, some of the people in my course will probably be unable to do this. While I praise the introduction of the feehelp option, it has attracted people who are very unmotivated, that just said to themselves "that'll do." At the same time, it has attracted people who are not rich, who are cherishing every moment at oxford, because it is giving them the opportunity they thought would never come their way.

At the moment, i'm just having fun, and enjoying the journey while its nice and easy. When it gets harder, which it will, i'll adapt accordingly. I am also enriching my life with as many alternates as possible, contingency plans, if you will. If I can't be a paid pilot straight after my course, I will not be working in Hungry Jacks as someone mentioned above, but will find a job which involves one of my other favourite activities, whilst continually searching for someone to let me fly their King air on my 200 hours.




...Only joking, I bet some of you 'experienced' guys got your head banger :ugh: all ready when you read that one. haha!


At the end of the day, it dos'nt matter what kind of pilot you are, we (all us males, sorry girls) are all having exactly the same conversations with pretty ladies all around the country, and continuously enjoying their reaction to the fact that you have the hottest job in the world.

Also, I think ppruners need to relax a bit. Who cares if people disagree with you? No need to get all up in their cyber grill. Just go with the flow man, go fly a plane or something :ok:

Oh, and while im at it, on my half yearly pprune login sesh, I might as well have a crack into cyber world: What the hell is wrong with a facebook picture of you flying around like maverick himself? It's a pretty cool thing to be doing IMO. If I didn't fly planes, and saw a facebook picture of someone flying one with a 'headset strapped on' as our friend above put it. I would think 'mad, that kid flys planes' Obviously, when i'm where you guys are, I will be thinking "hahaa, what an idiot, hes excited that he is in a plane, like I once was, because he is flying one for the first time, like I once did, and DEFINATELY thinks that he will be in a 747 tomorrow, like I did.' *starts crying*
Here is the harsh relality boys: I will deny your friend request! Bet you didnt see that one coming from your window, from which you cant even see the wings of your plane.

[The Green Goblin]

Quote:
don't know what part of soseg's life we're supposed to be jealous of
lol... where the hell did that come from? where you trying to take this thread? I wasn't aware I was trying make you jealous, or to brag in any way... idiot

Why do the young fellas always resort to this pointless name calling?

You can call someone an idiot in far more colourful language which is fun to read. Unfortunately Pprune is not the place for these silly temper tantrums. It's like an emo war on MSN!

Don't end up like this guy!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHmvkRoEowc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHmvkRoEowc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[b_sta]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd264/thebitterlegion/Macros/Gifs/Jackson_popcorn.gif

[wwejosh]

Ok thanks everyone for your opinions,
Both sides of the argument are clear, each to their own.
I think we might wind her up, before these insults go to far.

Cheers

[soseg]

wwejosh, also... I doubt anyone else will post here answering your question for you as to how they go with looking for jobs... and I guess sometimes the internet isnt the best place. Judging by the age in your profile I am assuming you're looking at a flying school for next year probably after high school? The best thing to do would be to drive around to all the schools at moorabbin and talk to the guys there, get all the differeing opinons from as many people as you can. Some will be biased, some will be frank. I know I have come across guys who were brutally honest and I loved them for it. Judge for yourself and dont be afraid to question everything you hear - dont want to become complacent in any sort of aviation environment :) Remember you're the customer and its your money whether you pay it up front or whether it comes out of your pocket 10 years from now due to HECs

[Bla Bla Bla]

Don't stop now guys, I could do with another good laugh at a really really long pointless reply by an angry inexperienced pilot.

[The Green Goblin]

Soseg,

If your English and grammar are a sign of what it takes to get into oxford then the flying standard cannot be to high!

[soseg]

If your English and grammar are a sign of what it takes to get into oxford then the flying standard cannot be to high!Ok, go play grammar nazi with me then, but I'm pretty sure there is two o's in "too" when using it in that context
1. this is an internet forum not a professional document
2. ever considered some people on this forum dont speak english as a first language or maybe have not lived in an english speaking country for a long time?
3. yeah I passed their english exam with flying colours...............................:ok:

[The Green Goblin]

My rule of thumb with to and too is if you can substitute also with to then it should become too.

cannot be 'also' high does not really sound that crash hot.

You're lucky I'm not saying worse after beer 12 on a lazy Friday RDO :ok:

[Bla Bla Bla]

Soseg,

As a keen fly fisherman you remind me of a Rainbow trout, they fight pretty hard and you can have allot of fun once they are hooked but react to almost any fly once they are primed.

You should be aiming to be more like a Brown trout they sit at the bottom and ignore any bad casting and only go for the correct fly selection but are highly prized once they decide to bight.

[tmpffisch]

beer 12 on a lazy Friday RDO

perfect time to check your PM's...

[Mr. Hat]

I haven't read the whole thread so pardon me if i repeat some point already made.

Where you train will have virtually nothing to do with who or when you get a job in GA, the regionals, the airlines or the space program. Having a degree might affect your chances with the space program but will not affect the other three.

Getting a job particularly in GA has everything to do with hitting the road, presenting yourself in a professional courteous manner and meeting as many of the correct operators that your budget will allow. Build your contacts follow your meetings up, be patient, reliable and have a "can do" attitude that is combined with a willingness to do a bloody good hard days work. Be persistent and do not give up. Finally the biggest thing of all: Right place Right time (this includes all categories of avaition and life!).

Put all the glossy brochures away, save your pennies and try and learn how to fly from your flying school nevermind what airlines/ga are going to bloody think.

[training wheels]

Ok, back on topic now. So what's the rationale of doing most of the instrument rating in the single engine aircraft?

What's the percentage of airline cadets to private students?

[Bla Bla Bla]

TT,

The first answer is to save money and I don't know the second.

[Mr. Hat]

I was bored and am waiting for Mrs Hat to bring me my Green Chicken curry and beer so I skimmed thru the thread.

First of all you've got to do what you think is right. If that is going to an expensive school then do that.

I don't want to get into specifics of what works and why but what I can say from experience is this: If you get to know someone that is in the industry and has been thru ga then you can learn from their mistakes and cut some of the pain out. The times I didn't listen to MY mentors were the most costly mistakes I ever made.

There are people on this forum that can offer you the heads up on the real world. They might not say stuff you want to hear but it is worth listening to.

[newagebird]

hey there...why is it done on a single? i ask myself that too, i guess its done so that oaa can offer a very attractive training package at a lower price, rather than doing seminole then kingair endorsements. What it does is gives you exposure to FMS systems, depressurisation and so on, just to add to the airline training experience. Its a good marketing tool if you think about it.

flypy,
im about 99% sure i know who you are mate, you were a failure at uni and during your flyin...oh and not to mention life as it is. Thus why you didnt complete the course, also consider those friends you know at oxford no more mate. next time i see you, ill have a few words to say if you dare show your face around us.

soseg, you should know a wind up when you see one, appreciate the support however.

[flypy]

Now now newagebird, play by the rules. I didn't insult you. I know who you are, and I know Oxford is very precious to you, so I'll try not to hurt your feelings any more.

But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like :)

[PSV_Sunshine]

I have just one little request soseg... make room for me in the circuit pattern :ouch:

[FL170]

Wow I have to say I'm impressed.

Even my dog would of stopped chasing his tail by now :ugh:. I thought this was a 'professional' pilots forum.

[the air up there]

ok nkand, I am seriously not trying to get a bite here but please enlighten me because I think you really need to assess the way and the speed your career is going to progress.

On getting to the airlines you said "there are many routes and that is one option" on GA.

Sounds like you think that you will get another option and GA is just a fallback.

Then you say in 2-3 years you will be in an airline and you havent even finished your training yet.

In case you haven't noticed the airlines have stopped recruitment and there is very little in the way of GA progression and this has filled numerous threads on pprune. Who is telling you that you will get into an airline so quick? Talking with some mates in the industry, I/we are resigned to the fact that we will be were we are for at least the next 12months before the economic conditions improve for us to move on. Some people are even saying another 2-3 years which scares me.

No, I am not a whinger. I love where I am in GA at the moment. No I am not jealous, I have a job which I spent many years looking for and hence I want to try and help newbies see the accurate picture. Right now is not the best time to be starting out in aviation. Ring around the operators up north and ask them how many pilots they are hiring and the answer will be not many, ask about newbies and they may not say it but why take a 200hr pilot with experience when there are guys leaving kunners and Broome with 600-700hrs.

If you sit down and really ask yourself these questions, you may see how some of the things that have been thrown around by people at MB are alot rosier than the picture I have painted.

In response to wwejosh, vary rarely will the school that you trained at have a direct impact on your prospects of employment. Glass cockpit, fine fly a glass cockpit but before you jump in a plane with the CP for your first job, get some time in a steam driven aircraft. As stated in all the other threads about finding that first job the factor that will get you a job is attitude. Don't have a bad one and be presentable.

Talk to as many pilots as you can. Learn their names. Try and get them to learn your name. Its all about networking, it means jobs find you because they have thrown your name in the hat.

Know your checks, know your regs.

Finally, don't sell yourself short and stand up for yourself. You are a professional pilot. There is a big difference between going the extra yard and working for free.

[eocvictim]

The biggest bit of advice I can give to these kids is to keep your mouths shut. You dont know who is reading this forum and you've given too much as to your identity away. All you need to do now is apply for work with someone you've been abusing and by the close of business your name will be mud in the industry. This industry is too small and full of too many blabbermouths to be abusing or running your mouth off about anything.

GFS/Oxford is fine. Its a rip off but its fine. You will get the same level of training where ever you go because you're going to be trained by the same kids on the same path as every other instructor. The biggest thing is finding a good instructor who works as hard at teaching his students as they do at learning. I would work for hours thinking of ways to teaching students who were struggling. In the end it would pay off, but at the same time I had a lot of instructors put students up for test and I'd fail them becuase they wouldn't meet my standards. I knew that I could send my students to any strip in the country and they would be (in the words of best instructor) FOOIINNEEEE!

Now this was at one of the cheapest flying schools in Australia, using average aircraft with next to no SOP's. All my CPL students now have jobs. The instructors that were there (who were all inbread) when I was training are now all in airlines. In short it doesnt matter where you go its as Mr. Hat said, how hard you're willing to work for it; which starts from Day 1 of your training.

And my final thought; I had so much to say but it all gives too much away. Lets just say that there are a lot of people you see every day laughing at you right now boys.

PS Which one of you owns the Z3? hahaha aahhhh good times.

[PartyBus300]

Geez guys, well at least a few of you guys attempted to answer wwejosh's question (Mr. Hat, the air up there, eocvictim, soseg) :ok:

wwejosh, what they said is accurate. ya first gig will rely on presentation, professionalism, luck (right place at the right time), talking to as many people and making contacts, and the determination to put in the hard yards at the start. you will come across guys like flypy who do like to sell you a one sided argument just because they have had a bad experience along the way somewhere

But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif Actually flypy, I know who you are, and I'd bet my money you are still a drop kick. Do you even have your CPL yet after all these years?

[eocvictim]

Just to add to the comments on making contacts. Facebook really is your friend. So many short links between all the top GA jobs on facebook, try to connect with all your instructors friends too. Who you know can skip you into a company over someone with 1000hours more than you.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Just to add to the comments on making contacts. Facebook really is your friend. So many short links between all the top GA jobs on facebook, try to connect with all your instructors friends too. Who you know can skip you into a company over someone with 1000hours more than you.

Couldn't agree more with you EOC. Contacts are everything in aviation with such a tight knit community in many respects and they can be extremely useful for finding that first job!

As one wise man once said- it's not what you know it's who you know:)

[the air up there]

Don't know about contacts getting you in over someone with 1000hrs more than you. Not for entry level pilots anyway. 1200 vs 250, I know who I'd choose. It would depend on the job type and the higher timed guys answers also. But 500hrs is a maybe for an entry level job if the boss really likes your mate, for similar hours contacts ARE the difference between getting a start and "sorry, call again next week".

And people, the "sorry, call again next week" line will get used like a broken record by the CP if you are just another pilot.

[jackson's_joyflights]

Come on guys............... Why can't you all get along?:):):)

[GADRIVR]

So when do we get to the part where we're retired...you know, finished.
Then what????
I could tell you but it may be painful!!
Anyone interested?:O

[the air up there]

GADRIVR, I may regret asking this, but what happens when we retire??

[Centaurus]

and from friends who have gone back to analog I have not heard any complaints or any issues in regards to it. But as for someone who started from zero on glass... no clue


Realistically whether you have been trained on glass cockpit trainers or normal GA Cessna 150 cockpit instrumentation, should make no difference to a prospective employer. An artificial horizon in a glass cockpit Seminole or Cessna 172 is just a pretty little coloured instrument which displays the same basic attitude information as 1976 Boeing 737 artificial horizon or a 1986 Cessna 210 artificial horizon. Same with the HSI. There is nothing mysterious about glass cockpits and you should have no trouble interpreting attitude or heading information with either presentation.

[GADRIVR]

The air up there.....this is what you have to look forward to!:(

Chins up boys and girls...it's only for a little while longer. Then you get to go to an airline and say things like..."ah, GA days, when we REALLY used to fly"....or...."I miss the early mornings in Bankstown etc etc etc. Once there, you get divorced from your childhood sweetheart who has discovered that the industry essentially doesn't change, get remarried to a hot cart tart...and divorce again when she finds out you've been boffing her old work/flatmate (who was, lets face it; far hotter than the second wife any old way!!). You spend a few years in management, taking your leave on staff flights to Bangcock...oops Bangkok, for about ten years before taking a shine to that lovely little drinks waitress of dubious genetic beginnings in the "Wun yung boi" bar and bring her to begin a new married life in Australia, before...yep...you guessed it...you divorce again at the age of 65.
Seeing as all three wives have taken every cent you've ever earnt, you begin working as a crusty old sim instructor at the airline before being fired for "conduct unbecoming", move back to Bankstown where you work in Aerospace again for a time.
One day you don't turn up for work due to being detained at the YSSY perimeter fence...apparently you were yelling incomprehensible spit filled obsceneties at landing aircraft!!
Eventually you end up in the care of a limp wristed, twisted "Hellfire Club attending" palative care nurse who has his way with you for the final days of your life!
And all because you believed the brochure......sweet dreams!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

[the air up there]

GADRIVR, the detail with which you described my future was amazing. Having seen my future now flash before my eyes, I have two options. Follow the vision you have described or I can run into the nearest flying school, rip all the glossy brochures from the wall, cover them in AvGas and light them up to save future generations fom our torment.

Then my medical will be revoked due to alledged pschological issues. I will be locked up in an institution, not for the arsonist actions previously mentioned, but for thinking that aviation would be a rewarding career. Upon being released after extensive electric shock therapy I begin a long and successful career as a stop-go man for the local council, earning more money than i did in GA anyway.

Living the dream lads.:ok::ok:

[eocvictim]

oh I think you forget, we're all a little mad, why would we come back every day?

[jackjack]

eocvictim

PS Which one of you owns the Z3? hahaha aahhhh good times.

lolololol

[TOPENDCHIEFPILOT]

First time posted on Pprune and i have made an account especially to post this message.

As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent). I will ask where you did your training and if you tell me Oxford you’re in for a check ride from hell. Consisting of DR exercise of at least 120nm and ETA's of 30 sec VFR Nav req as a CPL holder this should be achieved. (Different world in remote areas but for those who have command built effectively and not flown in straight lines will be fine) Accommodation is usually 500+ per week and prove of accommodation is required prior employment the backpackers have raised prices due to recent upgrades and out of reach on your 10hrs a week for $35 casual rate( you got to pay tax remember ) in the first few months. You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon then expect to fly punters or even drive my mini bus to collect them.

There will be little to know movement this year and a very long wet forecasted. Don't rock up on my doorstep in Jan /Feb. you will be sitting around unpaid for 3-4 mths waiting for a job. IGA does not like hiring pilots anymore.

I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.

The attitudes of the couple from Oxford is bull**** and C, S, N from the Three companies will be paying particular attention to those who come through our doors. Pprune has always been a rumour mill but blokes who read your CVs actually read it.

The folk who have offered you advice are blokes who have done the hard yards and many whom still are. Hell I don't even have the experience to leave and you think you’re a running start for a major … hard work!! Get used to it.

As bugger all jobs are going to be offered this coming season my suggestion is to get your MECIR and ATPLS cause time off to sit exams are rare .Send us your CVs. (1 page) and if you add a Picture of yourself I stable it to your forehead and post the pic on Pprune! I don’t care if you’re a blonde bombshell a( him or her) im probably not going to employ you anyhow. There are a lot of folk whom reside in town now and have no desire to move on. Which is great for us. Jobs in the Top end are great and the best flying you will ever do. Times are tough and bugger all jobs going but im sure things by end 2010 will pick up. Good luck to those seeking your first job.

Nkar.... Get an Instructor rating this is my advice for you .

[aircabbie]

I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.

You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon

Gee things have changed .... Thats the most vivid memory I have .... And for your info it was a 1940 Station Wagon which i shared with a few mates from Forest river !!! :{

[kmc5]

I'd like to say I think the best input into this 'discussion', which raises a FAIRLY good point.. is b_sta's post.. of michael jackson image eating popcorn.. HILLarious. :ok:

[aircabbie]

Really .. Pretty informative for new guys heading north is say ..

[Benn]

To all concerned. Fisrt of all this post just goes to show what is wrong with the industry. The reason i am posting is because i want to offer some advice. You can choose to take it or leave it but i hope it helps at least someone.

You are all in the same industry. Work Together. Most of you will get that dream job. If you work hard and try your best you will get the job. Look after your mates because you will all end up in the same job in 10-15 years time. We will not tolerate this type of bickering and resentment to others because they have not done what you have done behaviour in the flight deck. If you come to work with this mentality of im a GA driver or an instructor or a Meat bomber so im better than you attitiude then you are in for a rude shock when you get here.

Look ive done all types of jobs in this game, the biggest thing you young guys and girls can learn from this post is to work hard, respect your fellow colleagues and keep your mouth shut until in a position to open it. Everyone should work together here because guess what thats what we do in the airlines!!!

It does not matter where you have come from prior to joining an airline. All types of experience in this industry are great. We dont judge an instructor different to a charter pilot or a RAAF FJ pilot. We take all types, and remember we are looking for a PILOT at the end of the day that is bright, good willed, knowledgeable and easy to get along with.

Good luck to all of you aspiring for the top job. You will get there in due time so for the moment sit back relax and enjoy all the wonders that this industry has to offer in all forms of flying.

Rather than posting here, conserve your energy and enjoy your youth not worrying about trying to hurt one another. We are in this together!

Cheers

[yaw_cpt]

Well said Benn...

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Just a question for TOPENDCHIEFPILOT, what makes you an expert on all things aviation and what experience do you bring to the table?

If you really are a Chief Pilot of ones those dodgy/sh$tbox operations in YPKU perhaps you had better get some mentoring from a more experienced Chief Pilot, so that you can set an example for your own pilots. Having unfortunatley transitted through YPKU lately, I feel very sorry for the RPT guys that fly in and out of the place.

To be a good Chief Pilot one has to act in a professional manner, display a good knowledge of the company operations, have a very good knowledge of the aircraft that you operate, be knowledgable on the local weather conditions, and also be a mentor for a newly minted CPL Pilot, don't expect them to be a big tough Kimberly pilot from day one. For a new CPL's the first job sets the standard for the rest of their career, if they survive they move onto the next job, or walk away from the industry or get sent home in a coffin.

Who conceived the idea of the +/- 30 seconds for ETA's, isn't the AIP standard of +/- 2 minutes good enough for your high standard?

Why the big industry myth about 200 series Cessna? I used to private hire a C210N after completing my UPPL licence. A gentleman learning to fly at another local school didn't like learning to fly in their C152/C172 so he went off and bought a C182 and did his RPPL/UPPL/NVMC and then later his IFR Rating. I can't remember his instructors saying he needed 100 hours or whatever in C172 before he could progress onto something bigger. Cessna built C152/172 to teach average people to fly and then they would hopefully sell them a C182/206/210 and then one day they would then progress into a Cessna twin.

I flew some Yanks around and one of the guys had his own construction business and learnt to fly during the 1970's at a Cessna Pilot Centre in a C150, and was hiring aircraft to fly out to his worksite when he decide to buy a new C206 which he still owned and was also flying a late model C310R which he hoped to upgrade to a Citation.

It is a Cessna 200 series afterall not the Space Shuttle.

[Tempo]

With a name of TOPENDCHIEFPILOT, and a grand total of 1 post, I think it's rather obvious that this is a windup.

[j3pipercub]

It is a Cessna 200 series afterall not the Space Shuttle.

I thought the Space Shuttle was designed to be an easy transition from a 210? Well that's the impression I got from a bloke I was speaking to the other day at the bowser... was just tooling around for fun and ole Bloggsey the CPL student tries to avail me with the aircraft's level of difficulty.

It probably didn't help that I led him down the garden path by asking to have a look and stating that I'd never flown a 210 before (which I haven't)...you shoulda seen the chest puff out when I said that, priceless...

But, really good post Benn

j3

[Bla Bla Bla]

So just to clear this up should I state I have some 210 time on my NASA application or not.

[The Green Goblin]

First time posted on PPRuNe and i have made an account especially to post this message.

As a on and off CP in the Top end (KNX) do not arrive on my doorstep with a CV with out 300hrs of which 20 must be in a 200 series Cessna. (Recent incidents have pushed up hour requirements - we are unable to BEND this. It’s easier to pay more in wages to attract guys when needed then it is changing insurance premiums (to an extent).

Fair enough I suppose. Having said that the guys I all started with had in the 200-300 hour bracket and an assortment of single time. Some had a couple of hours dual in a 210 from check rides and the odd one with a tad more. That was about the extent of it. Twenty hours used to be the magic number, however now chances are you will start on the Airvan and there is not much chance of getting some hours on one privately.

I will ask where you did your training and if you tell me Oxford you’re in for a check ride from hell. Consisting of DR exercise of at least 120nm and ETA's of 30 sec VFR Nav req as a CPL holder this should be achieved. (Different world in remote areas but for those who have command built effectively and not flown in straight lines will be fine)

http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/download/vfras02.pdf

The CASA day VFR syllabus is here. Located on page 28 you will find the requirements for enroute navigation. The standard is +/- 2 minutes.

Accommodation is usually 500+ per week

If you are staying at the Ritz!!

Expect about $260 a week for a caravan or less if you can find a room.

and prove of accommodation is required prior employment the backpackers have raised prices due to recent upgrades and out of reach on your 10hrs a week for $35 casual rate( you got to pay tax remember )

All the companies pay full time award. I don't know of any who paid casual rates in Kunus.

in the first few months. You cannot have a good sleep in your 1930's station wagon then expect to fly punters or even drive my mini bus to collect them.

There are only two companies with mini buses in Kunus. I know 2 of the CP's well.

There will be little to know movement this year and a very long wet forecasted.

Yeah right.........

Will be a late cyclone season and more than likely a late Monsoon.

Don't rock up on my doorstep in Jan /Feb. you will be sitting around unpaid for 3-4 mths waiting for a job. IGA does not like hiring pilots anymore.

Someone has got to work at IGA. There is not enough people for the demand in the dry so you will find plenty of non aviation work.

If you are not there in Jan or Feb you will miss the season unless you are very lucky.

I repeat: The good ‘old days of 2min noodles sleeping round the fire ant the Kununurra showground in your station wagon or tent are GONE (Good times) diff owners and bigger wets with higher Temps mean this is no longer suitable. The mines have started recruiting locals only so partners of miners take up the IGA and Coles jobs.

Utter crap........

The attitudes of the couple from Oxford is bull**** and C, S, N from the Three companies will be paying particular attention to those who come through our doors. PPRuNe has always been a rumour mill but blokes who read your CVs actually read it.

No one cares where you did your training as long as you have the required minimus and can pass the checkride (and are a good fella/sheila)

The folk who have offered you advice are blokes who have done the hard yards and many whom still are. Hell I don't even have the experience to leave and you think you’re a running start for a major … hard work!! Get used to it.

I think you will fall down on the Qantas entry requirements for English (or fall down on the phsychometric testing)

As bugger all jobs are going to be offered this coming season my suggestion is to get your MECIR and ATPLS cause time off to sit exams are rare .Send us your CVs. (1 page) and if you add a Picture of yourself I stable it to your forehead and post the pic on PPRuNe! I don’t care if you’re a blonde bombshell a( him or her) im probably not going to employ you anyhow. There are a lot of folk whom reside in town now and have no desire to move on. Which is great for us. Jobs in the Top end are great and the best flying you will ever do. Times are tough and bugger all jobs going but im sure things by end 2010 will pick up. Good luck to those seeking your first job.

Some truth there. We liked the blonde bombshell pictures but the chief pilot was gay so we never had a chance of female colleagues :{

Nkar.... Get an Instructor rating this is my advice for you .

Don't listen to this clown.

Get a CPL as cheap as you can with the most experienced instructor and head north!

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Haha Green Goblin- good response..

No way was I listening to him- plan was CPL and then look for charter northish all along.

Topendchiefpilot probably has never even flown a plane before!:)

[Atlas Shrugged]

Is it school holidays again?????

[solowflyer]

Is this thread still going:zzz:

[Stationair8]

Very very tricky aeroplanes those C210's, they have three bladed props, fuel injection, retractable undercarriage, laminar flow wing, no struts, six seats and most have two VHF radios.

CASA really should make it a mandatory 50 hour course in a full motion simulator with Flight Safety then another 50 hours line flying with a person with at least 25,000 hours in C210's, before a six hour checkride with a CASA FOI.

Funny the old dude that gave me a C210 check ride, showed me that if it all went tits up, pull the throttle back to 17", take the first stage of flap and then put the wheels down and suddenly it become a Cessna 172 and was happy to fly along at 80 knots. The other tips were keep the weight of the nosewheel, know how the undercarriage works and slow it down in turbulence.

[eocvictim]

CASA really should make it a mandatory 50 hour course in a full motion simulator with Flight Safety then another 50 hours line flying with a person with at least 25,000 hours in C210's, before a six hour checkride with a CASA FOI.



I thought that was the requirment when I saw the ad for SA parks and wildlife. I was very disapointed I didn't meet their requirments. I guess it's no consolation that I met the requirments for DH8 CMD.

[Pro777]

Thanks for a constructive response Green Goblin (as usual!) :ok:

[Integrated&Irritated]

I’ve had firsthand experience of integrated training at what is claimed to be Britain’s and the world’s premier flight training organisation. Some of the experiences of my fellow trainees make that difficult to believe.
The ground school is largely excellent; it’s the flight training where the problems begin, specifically in the US. The training centre in the USA is at times very poor value for money. There is zero standardisation of training and assessment, and there are a few instructors who are nothing more than arrogant bullies, who are a law unto themselves and whose treatment of students is nothing more than extremely abusive. There have been many instances of students refusing to fly any further with instructors for this reason. You can be sure the same names would crop up time and time again in any forum on this subject.
It should be mentioned there are many instructors in the US who are excellent, lovely individuals and are as good a teacher as they are pilots. It’s just unfortunate though that there is a minority that aren’t, and that really heavily detract from the good work of their colleagues, undermining what could otherwise be a first class set up.
The level of training off some, oddly enough usually the arrogant bullies, can be too low to be even classed as sub-standard. In spite of all the arrogant rants about how many hours and what airline they flew for. If you were so good why did they dispense with your services? Just because they have an instructor rating doesn’t mean they can teach, and some are incapable, never can, never will, no matter what their backgrounds.
Additional training at a heavy additional cost can result because of this, and has been given to students by some instructors needlessly on the thinnest or most pathetic of reasons. Flight reports can be as severely affected as your mental health by extremely negative and quite damaging entries to training records from instructors who have taken a personal dislike to their students.
To add further insult, any complaints are completely dismissed with no right to appeal, the senior staff covering for instructors no matter what the complaint, or how obvious the problem. Surely when two or more people raise a complaint there is obviously a very real problem, and yet still nothing is done about it. It’s happened so many times before and keeps happening again and again. They don’t seem to take any interest in your rights out there after they’ve taken your money. We’re all sure it’s just a matter of time before somebody sues, and rightly so after paying almost seventy thousand pounds, and it will be interesting to see OAA’s standpoint if someone takes an instructor to court for bullying, victimisation, or some other customer service issues. There have been cases where, had individuals decided on that particular means of action, OAA would have been placed in a highly damaging and embarrassing position. Fear of a poor report or of not getting a recommendation usually putting people off doing so.
The only people whom even get close to a fair hearing are the EPST students, OAA being wary of negative reports reaching EPST of sub-standard training or behaviour by some instructors and of potentially losing a very lucrative contract with EPST.
We’re sure Anthony Petteford himself isn’t fully aware of what goes on out there in his absence, and for someone as committed to OAA and to quality, as Anthony undoubtedly is, that he’d be quite shocked at the standards and behaviour of some of his flight training staff.
It’s quite disheartening too when you return to Oxford to begin your IR to find the pass rate was currently 60%. However, the standard of instruction is higher in the UK is more assured compared to that of the US, with some excellent instructors who give their all to their students.
So the reality is not the same as the glossy image portrayed for everyone, it just depends how lucky you are, but luck shouldn’t have to come into it after paying in excess of sixty-five thousand for flight training. Quality should be assured. OAA need to recognise and rectify this, and then they could easily be as good as advertised for all students without exception.

[Pitch Up Power Up]

hey guys, just my little say on the guys from oxford.

i dont have many hours myself, only 250 hours, i did my CPL and IR training at Bini Advanced Flight Training at YMMB with Steve Pearce (just the IR.)
anyways i got a couple of mates who fly at oxford, and they have come to Bini's to do a couple hours in analogue aircraft, flying the Arrow. Ive gone up with them and i hav noticed that NONE of them can hold the aircraft straight and level. no joke, they hold it at about +/- 300-500 feet, adn i recon that its because they rely on the autopilot so much, and yea they cant navigate for **** house. oh and they also dont realign the DG so after an hour its like 30-40 degrees off

not having a go at anyone, just saying what i have seen and experienced myself.

[Pitch Up Power Up]

maybe you my friend..are a moron.

ive been up with a few of my mates from oxford, and they cant hold straight and level. they arnt from my sources ********. thats what i saw with my own eyes. so why dont you learn to read because i clearly said that i have gone up with them. and yea even they have said that they rely on the autopilot, you fcukface.

[Sykes]

Mate, it's YOU who've got your facts wrong...

Clearly, written comprehension is NOT your strong point. :rolleyes:

It may be a "Guaranteed" fact that "oxford has only 1 aircraft with auto pilot in the US".

But the previous poster was talking about Oxford at Moorabbin airport in AUSTRALIA. (Hint, posting in D&G generally means Oz or NZ)

what warrior 2 do you know of that has autopilot?

Where did he say that? Oxford use (mostly) C172/C182's for their SE training aircraft.

Oh and with some instructors +- 20ft is a fail

Failing pilots +/- 20ft. Really? Poor instructing, IMHO. In OZ, the IFR tolerances are allowed +/- 100ft (or +100/-0 ft at the minima).

[Pitch Up Power Up]

anyways i noticed your from the UK.. im talking about oxford in australia.

[Pitch Up Power Up]

thank you Sykes. i think hes talking about the wrong oxford.