Kidlington now "London Oxford"

[astir 8]

According to the news yesterday, Kidlington airport at Oxford has been renamed "London Oxford" by management - only 69 miles from London! :ugh:

Anyone feel another airspace grab coming up? :sad:


Note:- Apologies. A pi** taking comment on the name change has already posted in Jet Blast but it's the potential TMZ and then Class A creep that worries me - the Oxford/Abingdon north-south corridor is already very crowded open airspace without any more squeeze effect.

[julian_storey]

So how long before the landing fees go up? :uhoh:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<the potential TMZ and then Class A creep that worries me >>

Why should it worry you when you accept that it's already crowded airspace? I was a controller at Kidlington in 1971 and what went on in the surrounding uncontrolled airspace frightened me to death! Heaven knows what it's like nowadays...

[ShyTorque]

I wish it WAS controlled airspace, for similar reasons to Heathrow Director. I've had a couple of worrying occurrences in that area over the years.

Oxford have the busy airspace but no radar, Brize have the radar but not the airspace.....

Pilots who declare a VFR departure from Oxford but go IMC in the climb towards transit traffic when still on Oxford's approach frequency don't help.

It can be difficult to know who best to speak to at times.

[Fuji Abound]

Not a lot - goes on.

There is a rumour that Oxford is no longer all that GA friendly.

There is a reasonable amount of training some of which departs airways and not a lot else.

The surrounding airspace is not particularly busy other than sunny weekends when every where is busy.

I visit Kidlington quite regularly. The new GA terminal is wonderful and they should make an effort to be more GA friendly, lest so many airports forget that the executive jet traffic can disappear as quickly as it came, as can all the intense young students and the CAT.

[FREDAcheck]

And why not? In Suffolk there's LKI - London Knettishall International.

[Pace]

Wouldnt read too much into it its just a marketing ploy to encourage business aircraft to use Oxford enroute to central London.

Possibly also a google thing to bring up Oxford on typing London Airports :)

The same happened with good old Halfpenny Green :) turned into wolverhampton.

Pace

[ShyTorque]

..and then back into Halfpenny Green.

East Midlands into Nottingham East Midlands then back into East Midlands.... :rolleyes:

[sycamore]

Bring back Bawtry International...aka Finningley !

[FREDAcheck]

I think you're all being too parochial. Come on, let's think out of the box! Why let distance from London and lack of transport links limit who can call themselves "London Airport"? From the Beeb article:
Distance to London Airports

London City nine miles (15km)
London Heathrow 18 miles (29km)
London Gatwick 30 miles (48km)
London Luton 34 miles (55km)
London Stansted 38 miles (61km)
London Southend 43 miles (69km)
London Oxford 62 miles (100km)
London Ashford (aka Lydd) 73 miles (117km)

(Source: Google Maps - shortest route starting from Parliament Square)
What's wrong with London Insch? (Aberdeenshire, 554 miles or 886km driving distance from Parliament Square.)

[Vone Rotate]

I think Manston is know as London Kent too???

My mistake, kent international......

[Duchess_Driver]

It's all so they can attract RYR!

If there is to be an airspace grab then I think it would more logically be an extension of the Brize Delta - especially when the Herc's move from Lyneham.

Personnally - can't see it happenng for a few years yet, if at all. People have tried starting scheduled services from Oxford a number of times in the past with little success.

[jamestkirk]

I have no idea what you lot are on about.

I operate out of London Aberdeen. Its only c.550miles from london and there ARE train links, flight connections, National Express AND taxi's to the city centre.

69 miles!!!!! You don't know you're born.

London Oxford! What a load of old sh*t.

[sammypilot]

Flew into Oxford about three weeks ago in a PA28 and found all the staff very friendly and helpful so I don't think it can be rumoured that they are not GA friendly. With 1319 metres of main runway I don't think they can have too many pretensions at being a major player in the "London Sweepstakes."

[Midland Transport]

I just hope that they can make the airport financially viable. Oxford is one of the very few regional airports that are open decent hours have a published IFR procedure and are reasonably placed and priced. I was there last Friday for a checkride and found all the staff very helpful especially the controller. Airspace around Oxford is busy if VFR with Weston Brize etc so for me controlled airspace where you can get service like the excellent Farnbrough facility would be great in the centre of the England.

[gpn01]

I remember when Schiphol used to advertise itself as "London's Fourth Airport". So something 'local' like Oxford can probably claim to be a London airport just like London-Luton and London-Stansted.

I do worry about the potential for increases in controled airpsace in the area - that'll further choke the remaining Open FIR traffic into an ever smaller space. To the East of Brize on a sunny day you'll find hundreds of GA, Microlights and gliders all in the same area. If that area is then shrunk further then the collision risk must grow quite significantly.

[Spitoon]

Not that it has any more reevance than a good many of the other posts in this thread...but I recall that Southend renamed themselves London-Southed in the AIP a few years ago. The CAA took a rather dim view - demonstrating a surprisingly good grasp of geography - saying that they were nowhere near London and that they couldn't change the name.

The airport still calls itself London-Southend, and that's the company name too - but in the AIP it's still plain old Southend (in so many ways).

And I doon't think there was much of an airspace grab after that little episode.....

[Auster Fan]

Bring back Bawtry International...aka Finningley !
..........aka Doncaster Robin Hood IIRC. Quite what Doncaster has to do with Robin Hood, I'm not sure......

[NewTimer]

London Ashford (aka Lydd) isn't anywhere near Ashford, let alone London...

[panjandrum]

Spitoon -you are wrong. Southend was not renamed to London Southend in the AIP a few years ago. All that happened was that to increase functionality of the document,AIS put an extra cross reference in for Southend under 'London Southend' under the airfields entry list because so many people know the airport as 'London Southend' after it was renamed that in the early 1990's. The AIP entry itself remained as Southend.
I believe pressure was then brought to bear to remove the extra link.

The CAA would seem to agree that Southend is a London area airport - look at the airport statistics page on the ERG pages.

[Bigglesthefrog]

Let's face it guys, the ONLY reason that any airport would align itself with London is because they have started to adopt delusions of grandeur. With delusions of grandeur comes the “need” to get rid of GA, the small aircraft (you and me) as that’s not very grand! How to get rid of these…easy…up the prices and keep doing so until they leave of their own accord… sorted! Now they’re in a good position to grab some airspace just like Norwich Airport is now trying to do.
The problem with this is just what happened at a West Country airport years ago, when the carriers started to pull out in favour of another airport. Lots of staff and not much work anymore. Redundancies, embarrassing questions and egg on faces of the suits…quick, start to get the GA boys back again!
Why can’t the management of small airports just recognise that big is NOT beautiful anymore in air travel? Small regional’s are exactly what people want these days because they can enjoy less hassle at the check in, sail through the security checks and enjoy peace and quiet whilst they wait for their flight.

[astir 8]

There are as usual at least two sides to the argument. We have the bizjet drivers etc who use Kidlington saying "controlled airspace for London Oxford would be good" and the passing GA saying "more controlled airspace in that area represents more squeeze on the class G which will further concentrate the FIR traffic and increase the collision risk"

And there's the "grab as much airspace as possible to increase the chance of us getting more traffic sometime" school of airport management (viz Doncaster & now Norwich)

As this is the "private flying" forum and I also have a personal axe to grind re open airspace to meander around in Oxfordshire, I remain of the "here comes another plot to seize airspace unnecessarily at the expense of light GA" viewpoint :sad:

[Sir Niall Dementia]

OK head into the lions mouths;

I am a corporate pilot based at EGTK, I also fly in in my weekend toy. EGTK is very GA friendly and can provide a useful learning experience for inexperienced aviators as there are now a large number of mid-sized business jets as well as the flyings school and the old OATS.

Movements are no-where near the amount in the mid '80s when there would be seven in the circuit, ten joining and five in the hold (thank christ) Oxford then was second to LHR in annual movements, mostly PA28s and PA31s, Now there is a greater variety, and less overall movements.

On thing I would beg for though, if you are going to transit north about please give Approach (125.325) a call. On a grovelly weekend the TCAS warnings on approach can be a real worry. A lot of pilots are transiting through the instrument approach without calling ATC, who with no radar can't give traffic advice to aircraft flying the procedure, often their first knowledge of a transit is when we call a TCAS contact, on one Saturday last summer I completed the base turn to find 7 TCAS contacts, none of whom were talking to Oxford. I detest the phrase "airspace grab", but I can see a time when EGTK will get CAS so that protection can be applied for IFR approaches. Helping ATC and other pilots with a simple call may help keep CAS at bay. EGTK will get radar, but it is not scheduled for another 2 years, so the cheap option is CAS. If all pilots used the superb service from Oxford on their way past then maybe CAS could be avoided.

I met one chap recently who made that north about transit several times a month, his attitude was "why should I talk to them?" my response is as above. A selfish attitude from some members of the flying fraternity may give the authorities all they need to make more airspace controlled, and makes those of us who do fly GA look like a right bunch of clowns to those at the pointy end of the expensive toys, and as one who flies both I think that is bloody unfair.

Sir Niall

[Hugh Spencer]

Kidlington was opened in 1938 for advanced flying training. It had 3 runways, 2500 yards extended from 1140 yards, 2000 yards extended from 1140 yards and 1400 yards from 1312 yards. Its manpower consisted of 140 RAF officers and 8 WAAF officers, 310 senior NCOs and 6 WAAF and 980 ORs and 454 WAAFs.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

484 WAAFS!!! Just imagine all those RAF issue stockings and suspenders!!!!!!!!!!

God; off for a lie down now:E

A quick search on Google last night brought upsome great Oxford alumni who the airport could have been named Famous alumni and students of Oxford University (http://www.blanchflower.org/alumni/oxfalumn.html):
Personally I liked the William Golding version: Oxford Middle Earth Airport.

Or Oxford Bertie Wooster Airport (I know, but the site has the famous fictional ones as well including Inspector Morse)

Sir Niall

[Eric T Cartman]

@Sir Niall Dementia
Thread drift but -
I wish your first post had been available as an example to quote when we were trying to get CAS back at Prestwick - the last paragraph says it all really. It should give food for thought to those currently having a go at Norwich !

As for your second post re WAAFs - I concur. "Nurse, the screens !" :O

[astir 8]

London Middle Earth Tolkein not Golding? Inaccurate GPS input?

Interesting thought Sir Niall - all aircraft within 10 nm of Kidlington on a good thermic weekend to call them up? Traffic from the 3 local gliding clubs alone would fuse the system.

Alternative suggestion - ban executive travel & ILS approaches to Kidlington at weekends?

There's London Oakley - handier for the M40

[airborne_artist]

My vote is for London Chalgrove - closer by eleven miles, and handy for AA Towers - M O'L - please take note....

[beatnik]

Dear Sir N D

What is a "north about transit". Can't say I've seen that term before. I flew over the ATZ yesterday, south to north. Is that it?

Cheers
Nik

[Sir Niall Dementia]

NIK;

A lot of aircraft transit the area around the north of the ATZ (keeps them away from Brize) but then fly through the approach without talking to anyone.

Astir8, while EGTK is very GA friendly they make more money out of bizjets, everyone at the airport are aware of the gliders, some of us fly them too. If it comes to an argument I bet EGTK would go with the business community, so why start the argument in the first place. Flying GA is my relaxation from flying when the boss tells me to. I don't want more restrictions on my leisure because a few people can't use a touch of common sense. A jet on the ILS will be at 1800' at seven miles with a speed around 160kt. A call to approach at least alerts ATC and IFR traffic to the presence of other aircraft, as for gliders I flew past the comps at Lasham the other day when Fanborough had primary returns on up to 50 gliders at a time, it was mighty busy but the radar saved an awful lot of stress and no gliders were talking to Farnborough (personally I don't see why they should).

The area around EGTK is very busy, much as I enjoy flying with the radio switched right down and peace and quiet in the cockpit I would not transit this area without talking to someone either Brize for LARS or Oxford to at least let them know you are here.

As for gliders I wish I had that amount of freedom in my day job. And don't forget Weston-on-the-Green may be notified as active with nothing going on at all, or A Herc or parachute dropping aircraft.

A bit of common sense and courtesy can go a long way to stopping more CAS.

Sir Niall

[BEagle]

Judging by what some Kidlington arrivals consider to be 'the approach' with their 3 deg from 10 miles techniques, it's not surprising that there are potential conflictions for light aircraft transiting to the north at 2000-ish ft.

And on another note, is there really much demand for W-o-t-G that couldn't be conducted elsewhere?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

BEagle;

The arrival from the North is off Honiley with a reasonable rate of descent, but it does put you at around ten miles closing the localiser. If you fly the procedure from the OX the turn is at 6.5D. At 160kt the arc of turn will take you out to around 8.2D at 1800'

I recently flew the SATCO on a TRUCE trip which was my IRR, SATCO saw just how far out that turn takes you and how close you can get to WotG while in the hold.

No airfield is perfect and none can have perfect procedures, but EGTK does its' best to accomodate everyone, why can't we as a community try and accomodate the airport by just letting them know where we are?

Sir Niall

[Molesworth 1]

FredaCheck

Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btw:cool:

Some months ago I arrived at Oxford on a Thursday. No a/c movements at all ...neat, and then I went and embarrassed myself by running off the side of the runway on to the grass for 50m or so.

Re-reading my Air Law book I see I was supposed to file an AAIB report for that.

Oh dear.

[FREDAcheck]

FredaCheck

Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btwI know - I copied the figures from the Beeb page. And Insch - I just measured it on Google maps to roughly the centre of London. Oh well, better do it again...:)

[barak]

I fly there quite regulaly & they are very GA friendly, low landing fee (Single £17) & ATC is very accomodating if you want a straight in approach. The only issue's with airspace around Oxford is the Radar site nearby & Weston & Hinton because of glider & PJT's.

[astir 8]

Er... and the Brize zone?

[stellar air]

I'm reliably informed (as a regular Oxford pilot) that the re-naming of the airport was forced on the management by the owners who, residing on page 1 of the 'Sunday Times Rich List', can call the airport whatever they want. Everybody that works there thinks it was mad. The official line offered by the management was that it 'was to make international business aircraft operators aware of another alternative for accessing the north-west of London' which indeed Oxford is. The facts are that if you lived say in Kensington, you will get to Oxford quicker than you would Biggin Hill, Farnborough or Stansted and Luton on a bad day is no better a run. My passengers come from the Notting Hill/Holland Park area and we do that run in 50 minutes to the door of the aircraft and three minutes later I'm taking off - absalutely, catagorically not possible for any other London option other than say Northolt. Helicopters to Battersea take 19-20 minutes.

The renaming is bonkers and no doubt it will revert back to 'Oxford Airport' when the airport gets sold again one day - but it sure raised awareness of the fact that it is there internationally and even the locals suddenly realised it has a 'regional airport' on its doorstep.

On the matter of Oxford's GA-friendliness, as a resident, it is better value than some grass strips within the south east of the UK, has the best opening hours, the best GA terminal, excellent ATC, ILS and it's dead quiet compared to how it used to be due to the decline in pilot training. Class G airspace has both pros and cons but it is an inevitability that they'll have radar and controlled airspace one day.

No flying club though which is sad.

It's just a daft PR stunt to get noticed for the price of a new logo - to that end it worked. They've spent lots of money there over the last few years so I give them some moral support even though the name is utterly stupid.

[astir 8]

I see according to the press yesterday there's a subversive movement to get Bristol (Lulsgate Bottom) renamed "Adge Cutler International" Now that makes more sense than London Oxford!

Oooooh Arrrrrr, drink up thee zyder!:D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<A lot of pilots are transiting through the instrument approach without calling ATC>>

As they did when I worked there in 1971. Airmanship rules, eh??

[ChampChump]

Tongue firmly in cheek, a P&O spokesperson suggested Dover was re-named Paris International. Nil points for logic, 2 for trying to cash in on the PR.

[FREDAcheck]

Perhaps we're all looking at this the wrong way. What about renaming LHR as "Oxford Heathrow"?

[TrafficPilot]

Am also based at "London Oxford".

Certainly is reasonably GA friendly and we have some nice aerobatic practice displays/flypasts some weekends:ok:

Pity about the new name though. At least they didn't rename it Oxford International Airport.

Oh and the company that controls the parking here are w:mad:ers

TrafficPilot

[Bigglesthefrog]

I flew out of Oaksey Park directly to Le Touquet on a number of occasions, so does that qualify the owner, Brian Austen, to rename it "London Oaksey International"??:confused:

[ChampChump]

There's been an International Terminal at Cromer for many years :cool:. Or was - I've not been since it moved.