Trial flights

[cessna310]

Hi,

This might sound funny, Can i sale voucher for trial flight as instructor and log as instruction hours in my logbook ?

Regards,
cessna310

[what next]

Good morning!

Can i sale voucher for trial flight as instructor and log as instruction hours in my logbook ?

As long as 'they' don't find out, you can do anything :O

In my part of the world - JAR-FCL governed by german authorities - a student must be registered for a training course (and have passed his medical) before he can start logging flying time as instruction received. We have had countless discussions with students about that issue already, but the rules are what they are. Therefore, (most) students are legally only passengers during their trial lesson. Since we as instructors are not allowed to instruct passengers, officially no instruction has taken place.

Greetings, Max

[Whopity]

In the UK the holder of an instructor rating may give instruction to any person with or without a medical for the purpose of gaining a licence. If it is not for the purpose of gaining a licence, then no instructor rating is required however if its not "instruction" it would be a public transport flight!

There is a further complication that instruction for a JAA licence must be conducted from a Registered Facility however, there is no such requirement for a UK NPPL. Therefore all your trial lessons would be perfectly legal.

[rightbank]

Therefore, (most) students are legally only passengers during their trial lesson.

If the "passengers" are paying and they are not students, then its public transport and unless you have an AOC, almost certainly illegal.

[NorthSouth]

Whopity:instruction for a JAA licence must be conducted from a Registered Facility however, there is no such requirement for a UK NPPL

Not quite. This from LASORS 2008 C6.2:
NPPL(SSEA) training shall be completed at a
Registered Facility or Flight Training Organisation, and
training for the NPPL(SLMG) at an approved BGA site.
NS

[Whopity]

Not quite. This from LASORS 2008 C6.2:
An unofficial comment inserted at Clerical Level!
LASORS has no legal status, it is only guidance material. There is no requirement in Law (ANO) for NPPL training to be conducted at a Registered Facility which after all is only for JAA training therefore, the CAA cannot refuse to issue a licence for training conducted by any qualified instructor provided the aircraft and aerodrome meet the requirements.

SLMG training may also be conducted outside the BGA but, would then not enjoy the benefit of using one of the designated BGA unlicensed aerodromes listed in Exemption ORS4 No 725 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4_725.pdf
So my original comment stands!

[NorthSouth]

LASORS has no legal status, it is only guidance material. There is no requirement in Law (ANO) for NPPL training to be conducted at a Registered Facility which after all is only for JAA trainingI agree LASORS is only guidance. However JAR-FCL also has no legal status, it is only a set of requirements put together by a non-state body. Consequently there is no requirement in the ANO for JAA PPL training to be conducted at a Registered Facility. That's why they have been trying for some time to change JAR-FCL into EU-FCL. Following your logic there would be no difference between ignoring the RTF requirement for JAA PPL training as for NPPL training. I wouldn't recommend either.

By the way here's what the LAA website (yeah, I know, no legal status etc etc) says about the NPPL:
Q How many hours of training are there in the NPPL(SSEA) course?
A The course consists of a minimum of 32 hours plus tests.

Q Where can I do the course?
A At any flying club which is a registered facility or Flight Training Organisation
NS

[NorthSouth]

Cessna 310: Assuming you are UK-based, you might also like to consider that in order to conduct aerial work flights in the form of instruction to people who are not current licence holders, you can only do so (even for NPPL) in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members[ANO Schedule 8]
Of course there's nothing stopping you setting up a club which your trial flighters have to join.
NS

[Whopity]

However JAR-FCL also has no legal statusExcept where implemented through the ANO and the CAA has opted to issue JAA licences in accordance with JAR-FCL and as such will not issue a licence if the organisation is not Registered or an FTO.

in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both membersTrue but as there is no legal definition of a Flying Club, it is largely an unenforceable piece of legislation. 2 people with a common interest can constitute a club no constitution or paperwork required, so problem solved. If this were enforced how would CAA FEs manage to do tests because they are not members of any Flying Club? The large schools are not flying clubs either!

[BEagle]

Dear me, Whopity, you're $hit-stirring again!

NPPL (SSEA) training, including Ex1-3, shall be undertaken at a UK flying club/school or flying training organisation RTFM!!

..if your previous employers have cocked up their legal-weasel words, that's their error! Suggest you tell them to unbugger themselves quick-smart.

NPLG have been reminded of this clause. Particularly since it rules out any training conducted at a Yank PPL farm....

[Whopity]

You could argue that LASORS is dead there has been no 2009 version and 2008 is passed its sell by date! Its still riddled with errors and the boat has lost its rudder to say nothing of the engine.