Ambidextrous?

[rottenray]

(note to mods - please move this thread as needed, but please do not delete it)

Active commercial pilots flying Airbus - please weigh in here.

Are you ambidextrous? Can you write as legibly with your {left/right} hand as you can with the one you were trained to write with?

I am not throwing mud on Airbus.

In many respects, they have produced airframes superior to Boeing. (Both companies build marvelous aircraft. IMHO, Boeing has "durable" down pat, while AB has "useful" down pat. Both are great, marvels and examples of the best of human capability.)

I am asking you active pilots to think about the asymmetrical control layout, and make comments.

I am right-handed but semi-ambidextrous. A college professor encouraged me to become at least partly ambi. I can sign my paychecks with either hand and the bank can't tell the difference, but, in a pinch, I always rely on my right hand.


This is something which should be considered when creating future flight decks which will rely on automation more heavily, but will probably still have the downside of handing the pilot a mess when things go beyond what automation can cope with.

I hope this thread results in a lot of you thinking about how you want controls of the future to work.


That's what the weigh-in here is all about...

And even if you don't respond, just think about it.

A response here won't change anything - but if reading this causes you to think about it and then feather it to your association or union...

That's all good, and that's what I set out to do.

If you want to take me to task on this, you can save PPrune overhead by simply flaming me at my personal email address - ray{at}rottenray{.}com

Thanks, hope this does some good.

[69rooster]

ambi what?

I've been flying the 320 for 10 years switching seats is NO problem. Left or right handed, stick in either all my landings suck.
I've been switching seats for 20 myears never had a problem with the transition. Never seen another pilot who couldn't handle reaching for controls or switches with either hand.

[compressor stall]

I am right handed and cannot write legibly nor throw a ball with my left hand.

I can swap seats in the 'bus without a second thought as to which hand is controlling the stick. I would say my proficiency is the same in either seat.

I think you are trying to find an issue where there is none.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

How is transitioning from RHS to LHS on AB any harder than swapping from driving a manual transmission in the UK to the rest of the world, or vise versa? Or even RHS to LHS on any non-siudestick aircraft? You still have to swap hands for the throttle in the latter case.

To maintain, say, a RH sidestick in the LH seat would impose some pretty bizarre cockpit constraints, to the extent that it would be hard to conceive of using a single set of engine controls, indeed the whole centre console almost needs duplicating. I doubt it could be made a practical layout.

[rottenray]

Mad Flight Scientist writes:
How is transitioning from RHS to LHS on AB any harder than swapping from driving a manual transmission in the UK to the rest of the world, or vise versa? Or even RHS to LHS on any non-siudestick aircraft? You still have to swap hands for the throttle in the latter case.

To maintain, say, a RH sidestick in the LH seat would impose some pretty bizarre cockpit constraints, to the extent that it would be hard to conceive of using a single set of engine controls, indeed the whole centre console almost needs duplicating. I doubt it could be made a practical layout.Mad, thanks for writing something with sense behind it.

No, moving the stick wouldn't be dream-easy. It would entail moving either the R-H seat a little left to make room, or moving some center console stuff to other locations - which might be tragic when push comes to shove.

harder than swapping from driving a manual transmission in the UK to the rest of the worldActually, the issue is the steering wheel - yers are on the right, all y'alls over here are on the left.

I've had the pleasure of riding with a business associate from London on his first trip to our magnificent country - my esteemed associate promptly drove said Hertz-mobile into an oncoming car at - fortunately - about 12 mph.

My point is exactly that - when you're overwhelmed, can you guarantee that "what is right-handed in normal life translates to left-handed in the extreme."

Again, not calling AB onto the carpet - merely hoping to inspire some thoughts about future designs.

RR

Compressor writes:
I am right handed and cannot write legibly nor throw a ball with my left hand.

I can swap seats in the 'bus without a second thought as to which hand is controlling the stick. I would say my proficiency is the same in either seat.

I think you are trying to find an issue where there is none.Not at all - merely trying to inspire thought.

I'm glad you're comfortable with your stick skills left-handed.

My intent here is to simply get pilots thinking about two things: the man / machine interface, and how engineers design that interface.

Nothing more.

The more a flight deck resembles what YOU want it to be, the safer I'll be.

Peace,
Ray
Denver, Colorado

[Graybeard]

When I rented a car in Kiwi-land, I soon learned to grab and hold onto the center shifter with my left hand; leaving steering, turn signals, etc., for my right hand. It all came almost naturally, as if my brain had flipped into mirror image. Flying from either seat is easy by comparison.

GB: Left hander, the most oppressed minority in history.

[rottenray]

Rooster writes:
ambi what?

I've been flying the 320 for 10 years switching seats is NO problem. Left or right handed, stick in either all my landings suck.
I've been switching seats for 20 myears never had a problem with the transition. Never seen another pilot who couldn't handle reaching for controls or switches with either hand.First, define "my landings suck."

If you're the type of pilot who puts the damn plane on the ground firmly and with skill, then, no, your landings don't suck. I've ridden on too many flights with pilots who followed the various company edicts to save $$ and I can tell you that a "nice" landing goes all to hell quickly with even a minor wind or separation event.

I was on an AA flight into McCarran a few years ago, on an MD11 or something like it, we came in on a windy afternoon, PF tried to make it a nice smooth landing, and nearly scraped a wing tip because of a "dust devil" on the runway. That's a mini-tornado. If he had simply planted the damn thing on the runway, I wouldn't have had to change underwear after deboarding.

I can tell when my firmly-planted-in-the-seat ass changes direction by a compass point or two, and I don't like it. If you put your craft on the runway firmly, I won't be holding that against you - I'll be shaking your hand.


After that, thanks for weighing in - my point here is not to knock Airbus, merely to get everyone thinking about what *should* be done with the next generation.

Greybeard writes:
GB: Left hander, the most oppressed minority in history.Indeed!

Amongst my friends, I count three southpaws. One of them was lucky enough to buy a new home in which all the doors had knobs/hinges arranged "the right way" for her.

And, of course, we can't forget mentioning the Simpsons episode when Ned opened his lefty store in the mall...

It all came almost naturally, as if my brain had flipped into mirror image. Flying from either seat is easy by comparison.Grey, you have an "inside hand" here.

Have you thought about finding a way to share this with your "other-handed" colleagues?

That could make the difference between a "decent" First Officer and an excellent one who might grow up to be like you!

.

[ReverseFlight]

I am FW and RW rated and fly just as comfortably in the LHS or RHS on either type. Although I'm not endorsed on the Airbus, I have flown the A320 simulator (Beijing) and didn't notice much difference between the LHS/RHS controls. I am right-handed but can't write properly with my left hand - this causes problems in light RW a/c lacking autopilots and/or trims as I need my right hand to steady the cyclic. Mind you, I know a scenic RW pilot who flies the cyclic with his knees (!) while twiddling panel instruments/DVD cam/background music with both (free) hands.

[compressor stall]

The left / right is a non issue for me. There are other far more pressing ergonomic issues in the cockpit than that.

And as for how engineers design that interface. When I had dinner recently with the guy that designed the pad that you rest your hand on in the A380 when entering data into the MCDU, I was most disappointed to discover that it did not come to him in a Eureka moment in the shower or the middle of the opera. Boringly it came slowly over time, being built on other ideas. :ouch:

[Graybeard]

Thanks, Ray:
"Grey, you have an "inside hand" here."

"Have you thought about finding a way to share this with your "other-handed" colleagues?"

Most of them are untrainable. The Model T Ford and other cars of ancient age are safely cranked only with the left hand, which I do naturally. Those other guys are still getting broken arms from kickbacks, because they don't know or fear using the correct arm. In fact, there was an arm fracture from cranking, known among medics as a "Ford Fracture."

"That could make the difference between a "decent" First Officer and an excellent one who might grow up to be like you!"

Wife and older son are left-handed, also. We slapped the hand and everything on our younger son, and he still turned out right handed.

GB

[rottenray]

ReverseFlight writes:
Mind you, I know a scenic RW pilot who flies the cyclic with his knees (!) while twiddling panel instruments/DVD cam/background music with both (free) hands.If he's been doing this long and he's still alive, he must obviously have a talent.

(about 35 years ago, I knew a man named Tony Karcik who could take his turbo-charged Tri-Pacer up against the west face of the Mogollon Rim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogollon_Rim) and hover it there at max throttle into turbulence and prevailing easterly winds, while me and my parents looked down on pines close enough to spot squirrels... Tony passed away from a heart attack driving his Oldsmobile before he managed to kill anyone in an airplane.)

I have flown the A320 simulator (Beijing) and didn't notice much difference between the LHS/RHS controls...What I want you - and everyone else - to think about is whether you could do that having THE ABSOLUTE **** smacked out of you during bone-shaking turbulence (not an official term ;->) while trying to make sense out of degraded instruments.

It's not so much whether you're comfortable with swapping left-hand and right-hand controls - under normal circumstances.

It's all about what happens when you're being beat all to hell and back.

That's where I want all y'all to be thinking.

When things go pear-shaped, and you have to rely on your instincts.


Again, not bashing ABI. Certainly, Boeing could improve control interfaces as well.


But it's time that we started thinking about the interface - for a long time now, that interface has been primarily designed by software engineers, and secondarily by pilots.

Test pilots.

Not line pilots.

Line pilots are the "joes" who save my big white butt every time I fly.

Those pilots are the ones I think should have first say - and I think they should have more input than, say, a newly hired accounting major who thinks he/she can spot ways to save money in an air transport operation.

[MagnusP]

One of them was lucky enough to buy a new home in which all the doors had knobs/hinges arranged "the right way" for her.

I don't quite understand that. Surely all doors are RH or LH depending on which side of the door you stand. :confused:

[Flintstone]

(note to mods - please move this thread as needed, but please do not delete it)



Or, here's a crazy idea. Why not just post the thread in the appropriate forum in the first place and not expect the mods to tidy up behind you?

And people wonder why the moderators get cranky :rolleyes: