LCY-JFK BA001?

[PilotsOfTheCaribbean]

Article from Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ba-reveals-a318-layout-and-seat-design) on the new BA Airbus A318 service and cabin configuration from London city to New York via Shannon (outbound.)

32 seats. Rumoured to be using the old Concorde flight numbers (001/002) as part of the premium branding.

[TopBunk]

Don't have a problem with recycling the BA1/2/3/4 callsigns, although ...

I doubt they'll be calling themselves 'The Speedbird Concorde One/Two/Three/Four' though! Maybe 'Speedbird Microbus Snail 1/2/3/4' requesting FL390, M0.78 (unless there is turbulence, in which case M0.76):rolleyes:.

In reality allocated FL320 M0.78 to prevent disadvantaging 'normal' speed traffic across the pond.

I would not personally have bid for this fleet as a BA pilot (if I had still been on the fleet), the slow cruise, 2 engines, limited fuel options, night flight back to an 'interesting' LCY landing, no satcom, no CPDLC, twice a month rotation would have dissuaded me.

I hope it works out for the company, though, God knows we need to maximise all profit opportunities right now ....

[angels]

There's been quite a chat going on about this on the LCY thread in Airlines, Airports and Routes, and yes, BA001 has been resurrected.

As I've said in that thread, there's quite a bit of interest from business pax on that route. Sadly my days of New York trips on business are over!

[WHBM]

The flight numbers were announced on April 20.

[DartHerald]

It will be very interesting to see whether the fares attract the pax numbers needed. At nearly £5k for a round trip that is a heck of a premium, particularly in the current economic climate.

[Glamgirl]

DartHerald,

Prices start at £1100 (iirc). It goes up to £5000 if you want a fully flex ticket.

The aircraft will stop in Shannon to re-fuel and whilst this is going on, the passengers go through immigration procedures. This will inevitably save time when arriving at JFK, as passengers come through domestic arrivals.

Hope this clarifies some issues.

Gg

[Cyrano]

Prices start at £1100 (iirc). It goes up to £5000 if you want a fully flex ticket.

Are you sure? I've just been on ba.com, picked some random dates in November and been flexible with them and searched for "cheapest fare" - the lowest I get for LCY-JFK is still £4,900.

However doing the same search on LHR-JFK on ba.com, I can find an £1,100 business class round trip fare. That's a pretty steep price difference...

C.

PS I see that the carbon emissions calculator on ba.com reckons that the emissions attributable to one of 32 seats on an A318 are exactly the same as for one of several hundred seats on a B777. I realise they have to simplify things but somehow I suspect this is not the case...

[Glamgirl]

I didn't quite remember correctly...

Prices start at £1,900 (ish)

Sorry for any confusion

Gg

[Joetom]

Have been getting a little more info on this LCY-JFK operation from another thread.
.
Appears crew start and finnish duty at LHR/pilots and LGW/CC, pilots slip in SNN, plus pilots/CC stby numbers.
.
I took a look at ba.com and looked at LON-NYC prices in Oct/Nov, the price diff between LHR and LCY is a lot, suggest anyone is sitting down should they have a look at the prices.
.
Those green shoots had better grow very quick if this operation is to have any future.

[Glamgirl]

Joetom,

Just comparing prices would make LON-NYC cheaper from LHR. However...

There are benefits flying from LCY:

1. Turn up 15mins before departure
2. Wifi/texting available on LCY flight means pax can keep working if they wish
3. Going through JFK domestic arrivals - saves a lot of time
4. Only 32 seats - one can get the feel of private jet without the massive cost.

Basically, the LCY-JFK route is set up for the folks who work in the city. They (at least some) used to get to NYC by private jet. The banks/other businesses can't afford it anymore, so a major bank requested BA to set up this route as it will be from later this year. They have given their financial backing for the next 2 years.

Also, please bear in mind that these flights are pretty much fully booked for the first 6 months.

Gg

[Nick Riviera]

How does landing at Shannon and doing immigration there save time? I would have thought that the flight time non-stop from London in a widebody is considerably less than on the stopping LCY route, surely giving more than ample time to clear immigration in NY quicker than doing the LCY route. Has anybody got the timings to prove or disprove this?

[angels]

Nick - Have you seen the immigration queues at JFK??

What do you think they'll be like at SNN?

[Nick Riviera]

I have, many times. Last time I was there was pretty good, took about 15 minutes to get through, although I have been there for an hour as well. But my point is, how much quicker will a flight leaving LHR at the same time as the LCY flight get to NY? Just trying to determine if it makes much difference in how soon you actually get landside in NY. I have flown non-stop from Dublin to Boston and clearing immigration in Dublin in that case was a huge time saver. But when it is part of a stop from London, is any time saved?

[JayPee28bpr]

Nick R has raised some points that had occurred to me too. The stop at Shannon will negate any time saved in queueing at JFK (though the immigation officials will probably be a bit more polite too).

Another thought that springs to mind is just how often will the JFK-LCY flight actually land there? I'm a regular earlt morning departee from Dublin, and the early Air France flights to City are frequently delayed by hours, usually down to the weather at City as far as I'm aware. How often will the JFK arrival end up being diverted? And where to?

If the flight does actually land at LCY, then there are clearly benefits to the sponsoring bank in the the west-east flight direction. It's no more than 30 minutes from the wheels hitting the ground to getting to the office in Canary Wharf. Maybe it's the convenience in that direction that they want?

[west lakes]

Seems to me that the flight is primarily landing at Shannon for fuel, as it is unable to take off from LCY with a full load.
It seems that the opportunity is being taken, whilst it has to be there, to clear US immigration; otherwise the passengers would still see that additional time at Shannon and then have to, possibly, wait to clear immigration at JFK.

[strake]

On a random date from the BA website (Thursday 17 December 2009), the scheduled outbound flying time from LCY is a whopping 9hrs 45mins. From LHR on the same day, the outbound time is 7hrs 35mins. Add to that eyewatering fares of, it would appear, up to £5600 return and you have to wonder how much time or real money is being saved?
Of course, if as suggested this is actually some sort of "semi-private jet" arrangement with the banks then that's all right then isn't it? If true, nice to see the banks being prudent as they prepare for recovery.

[Skipness One Echo]

How often will the JFK arrival end up being diverted? And where to?


BA have a little operation in West London where some other JFK flights go. I think it's called Heathrow. Can't believe we have yet another thread on all this, it's been done to the death.

[JayPee28bpr]

BA have a little operation in West London where some other JFK flights go. I think it's called Heathrow. Can't believe we have yet another thread on all this, it's been done to the death.


So let me get this straight. I pay £5,600 return to fly to/from LCY, a significant premium to the JFK-LHR fare. I then end up at LHR anyway: considerably out-of-pocket, a long way (in terms of time) from Docklands, and probably late for the early meetings I'd arranged there and the ability to attend is why I'd pay the premium in the first place. And you don't see any problem with this?

[Skipness One Echo]

It can't be helped. There is no way to fly into LCY when the weather is out, as it occasionally is. That's one of those things people used to be able to deal with.

Will BA get you to London without diverting? Yes, though the wrong side of town.
Is Heathrow impossibly far from the Wharf? No, it's a longer cab ride and less than ideal, but you'll still be in London after your flight and on your way to a meeting.
Exactly what do you suggest BA do? The weather IS beyond their, and all airlines control. Is it possilbe to be grateful for a good opportunity to fly into the heart of docklands weather permitting for the firsy time from JFK?
Or let's moan about the odd occasion when the airfield is out due to fog.

Can no one deal with the realities of life these days? Truly any persepctive is that rarest gem. If you read the rather long thread on this in Airlines, Airports and Routes you'll see it is being well marketed at certain customers and underwritten by one in particular.

[Capetonian]

Checking random dates, the lowest return fare I could find is £1649 base fare which with the fuel surcharge (£156 - which should be part of the base fare) and taxes totals £1949.60

That's a non-refundable non-changeable ticket (use it or lose it)

The fully flexible unrestricted is £5050.60

[strake]

Can't believe we have yet another thread on all this, it's been done to the death.

SOE,
With respect, I don't think it's "been done to death" at all.

I read the piece by Jagdish Sihra as linked in the original post. There is no mention of the flight being special or underwritten for the banking world or anyone else for that matter. It reads just like the launch of a new Club service.
There are some very frequent flyers on Pax & SLF, particularly those of us who fly regularly to the States. Having read the press release and found it of interest as a possible new service route for my trips, I don't think it's unacceptable to start checking times, availability and pricing.
Having done that, I find (as it would appear do others) that there are a few questions raised as to what this service is. 1. 9hrs 45mins is a very long trip to JFK - hardly time saving. 2. There is restricted availability and 3. It's pretty expensive.
I apologise if I have somehow upset you by making comment here rather than elsewhere.

[Fargoo]

Hi Strake,
1. 9hrs 45mins is a very long trip to JFK - hardly time saving.
It is a long sector granted but the ease of access to LCY for the City boys and a 15 min check in goes a long way to remedy that for total time taken.

2. There is restricted availability
That's because the bank which requested BA provide the service is the primary customer and has block booked many of the seats. Any further seats sold will make an extra tidy profit.

3. It's pretty expensive
Compared to what, there is no comparable service that'll take you from the heart of London to JFK. Comparing it with a Club cabin from LHR most definately is not comparing like with like.

Sorry if I sound a little biased but I think it's a great idea for once and wish this route all the best. :ok:

[Joetom]

Strake,

All good points, those thrifty bankers are paying way over the odds for travel between LON-NYC, not realy, the bank customers will be picking up the tab and when they stop paying over the odds, the numbers won't add up anyway.

The whole operation looks like it has too many heels.

1/ LCY arrival history.
2/ Very un green.
3/ Hi cost of operation.
4/ Hi cost tickets.
5/ Slow to NYC.
6/ Stop in SNN.
7/ Only 2 aircraft in config, if 1 out of service, how will svcs operate.
8/ Removes 64 poss prem customers from LHR per day.

On the plus side, it keeps employed a hugh number of pilots for just two small aircraft, highest pilot/aircraft ratio in the airline world I'm told, does anyone know the number of pilots on this operation ???? I will be sitting down next time a I look at this thread.

[clareprop]

London Liverpool Street to Heathrow 1hr:10mins (extra 10 mins added to Railtrack Journey Planner) add premium class check-in 50 mins. LHR-JFK 7.40hrs non-stop. 1:40 hour to clear JFK and travel to downtown hotel. Total door to door 11hrs 20m.

OR

40mins from office to LCY and check-in. 9hrs 45min stopping at SNN. 1hr to clear JFK and travel downtown...about 11hrs:25min door-to-door.

All a bit finger in the air but I don't think I'm way out on timings having quite a bit of experience clearing JFK as a premium pax.

[WHBM]

All this discussion about schedule time ignores that, on my experience from the last two trips out of LHR, the average time from doors closed to wheels up was 75 minutes. The last two from LCY, about 5-10 mins.

Living close to LCY, the days of morning riverside fog that disrupt ops are about 5 to 8 per year. More often than not cleared by 0930. In over 100 flights through there it has never delayed me.

[Carnage Matey!]

On the plus side, it keeps employed a hugh [sic] number of pilots for just two small aircraft, highest pilot/aircraft ratio in the airline world I'm told, does anyone know the number of pilots on this operation ???? I will be sitting down next time a I look at this thread.

You need to get some better sources Joetom. All the pilots are drawn from the existing BA pilot pool and will fly LHR Airbus services when they are not flying the LCY service. Whoever told you it has the "highest pilot/aircraft ratio in the airline world" was talking out of their rear.