Landing Lights

[rich_g85]

Just wanted to gather some opinions on the use of landing lights.

Where I'm learning, different instuctors seem to have different opinions on when/whether to use the landing light.

One instructor likes it switched on entering the runway for departure, but not to bother with it any other time. Another instructor doesn't bother with it at all! At the weekend in my lesson we called finals, and I asked 'landing light on?', the response to which was an almost indignant 'no, dont bother'.

To me, this seems a little odd. If I'm about to enter the runway, I'd find it much easier to spot an aircraft on finals with the landing light on, than with it off. See and be seen and all that - after all, it is only one extra switch, hardly a massive increase in workload!

What do you think?

[Choxolate]

I was trained that if the aircraft is fitted with landing lights then use them on final to make yourself more conspicuous to aircraft about to depart.

Why not do this? I cannot see any downside

I must admit I cannot see any point in putting them on when entering the runway for departure. What is the supoposed benefit?

[Jumbo Driver]

The advantages of using landing lights on either take-off or landing (by day) are two-fold - (1) they draw attention to other traffic near or about to cross or enter the runway that you are about to arrive/depart and (2) they act to some degree as bird scarers.

By night, of course, there is a third benefit ...



JD
:)

[BackPacker]

There are several reasons for using a landing light. Or, essentially, any aircraft light.
- To see what's in front of you at night (duh)
- To increase your visibility for other aircraft
- Signaling of take-off/landing clearances to ATC and other aircraft close to the runway
- Reduction of bird strike risk

And there are reasons for switching lights off:
- To protect your night vision/not get disoriented yourself (strobes in cloud!)
- To do the same, but to other airfield users
- To save money: a hot landing light filament is supposedly more vulnerable to vibration than a cold one.

Except for the first one all are subject to debate and people do have different opinions on them - even instructors. And since the use of a landing light for GA VFR flights is not subject to any law or regulation, expect a healthy debate every now and then.

Me - I turn them on whenever I feel there's even a marginally good reason for using them. That includes all circuit/runway operations, and whenever I get a traffic warning.

[FlapsFive]

I had the same thing - different instructors with different opinions (and 10 times worse when it came to pitot heat!)

Basically I've come to the conclusion that I use it in the circuit (as per the checklist), near VOR's and VRP's, around airfields, and flash it on and off whenever I see possible conflicting traffic.

Pitot heat, well, I have all sorts of options: always on, always off, only on near cloud, only on cloudy days, only on sunny days, only when ice could be a factor, only below 1000 feet, only above 1000 feet, only when you feel it's necessary, ARGHH!! :ugh:

Basically I now use it when I'm going near cloud and switch it on on the pre-landing checks if there are conditions conducive to icing.

FF

[Ace Rimmer]

Me I always switch em on when cleared for takeoff and also when entering the zone. they go off when I've left the runway after landing or when I've left the zone outbound...if I have to cross an active as part of the taxi then I turn everything on while crossing. For those interested here's what IFALPA has to say on the subject :
http://www.ifalpa.org/downloads/Level1/Briefing%20Leaflets/Airport%20Issues/09AGEBL01%20-%20Use%20of%20external%20lights%20to%20mitgate%20runway%20in cursion%20risk.pdf

[Min Sink]

I turn mine on when entering the runway and off when leaving the runway at the end of the flight. I have a HID light so there is no filament to break and relatively low power consumption for a high light output.

As well as helping others see me there is some research that says using the landing light may reduce the chance of a bird strike.

[sfakman]

My instructor introduced the landing light to me once I was comfortable in the circuit, prior to first solo.

I’m still learning but it's now become second nature to turn it on when I'm settled on final.

I’m not experienced but in my view it makes sense to use it if you have it. Better to be safe than sorry.

The only problem I have is remembering to turn it off again when doing a touch and go!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The only problem I have is remembering to turn it off again when doing a touch and go!
Before aircraft starts moving - taxi light on.

At power check - taxi light off, landing light on.

After landing check, landing light off, taxi light on.

Shutdown - taxi light off.

(Yes I know other instructors at the same club teach other things in the same aircraft, but that's the version I prefer.)

I'm not going to be wanting to worry about ****ing around with lights in the circuits, particularly not on an unplanned go-around.

[Mike.Park]

Your landing lights will increase your visual presence when airborne. It makes it easier for other traffic to spot you.

I have a simple policy that has worked for me from day one.

Always leave your landing light on when your in a circuit or doing touch & goes.

Once you've vacated the active runway you can switch it off.

[Tmbstory]

Be careful if you turn them on in cloud,fog or mist at night, when trying to find the runway. It will light up the inside of the cloud and be disconcerting to your approach and landing.

Tmb

[BradG]

Beacon should always be on when operating the aircraft.

Strobes on when crossing a runway (and landing light if you think it'll make a difference), off when clear.

Strobes and landing light on when cleared for takeoff (or when announcing takeoff on ctaf). If I'm staying in the circuit, I leave them all on until I've landed and cleared the runway. If I'm leaving the pattern, I generally leave them all on until I've reached my cruising altitude to help with bird and traffic avoidance then kill the landing light at cruise. I wouldn't turn off the landing light until at least 1000-2000 agl because your birdstrikes typically happen down there. When inbound, I get the landing light on the descent check and leave it on until I'm clear of the runway.

A little memory aid that you can use any time you enter the runway for takeoff or exit after landing is "Lights, Camera, Action"
Lights: landing light and strobes
Camera: Transponder to Alt or standby
Action: Mixture, Fuel Pump, doors/windows. All of the last minute things you wait to do until you're holding short and you get your clearance. The "Action" part depends more on the particular airplane you fly but try to find a flow that will help keep you from forgetting anything. For the Action step in Pipers I usually just start at the mixture, move up to the fuel pump, and move out to the windows/doors to make sure they're secure. There's not much that's more distracting than having a window pop open halfway through your takeoff roll.


I only use nav lights when it's getting close to dark or when going IFR.

I put the pitot heat on when there is visible moisture present and temperature is below 40 or 45. And I don't turn it off when I pop out of a cloud and then turn it back on after I pop into another one--if we're going to be in and out of the clouds I just leave it on. My CFI likes to flip it off if we've got a 2 minute period of VMC and turn it back on before we get back into the clouds but I find that to be pretty dumb. It takes the thing at least a minute or so to heat up, sometimes a lot longer when it's really cold out and you've got a lot of wind (and not to mention rain or whatever)!



Oh and please don't be the guy that sits there waiting for takeoff at night for 5 minutes with his strobes on while another airplane is sitting right behind him getting blinded by it. Once the next airplane has stopped and I know they see me I might even turn off the beacon out of courtesy if it's actually the red strobe type instead of the older glow or rotating type.

[djpil]

The landing light on my Decathlon has a life of about 20 hrs if not subjected to a jolt on landing when hot so its average life is more like 10 hrs. Parts are cheap but there's enough labour in it that I tell people that it is an extra $10 per hour if they want to use the landing light.

[silverelise]

The instructor who says don't use the landing light at all - what is is reason for this out of interest?

[Hugh_Jarse]

I always leave the landing light on when I know the mother-in-law is due to visit .... :eek:

[mad_jock]

silverelise they cost about 25 quid a pop and last between 10 - and 20 hours depending what you do with them.

The pitot heaters last a hella of alot longer but its the same thing its all about cost.

Its not uncommon in some schools to have a set of working ones which get swapped back in for a 50 hour then when the aircraft gets back to swap blown ones back in.

In a training environment they get heat cycled every 40 mins you sometimes can be lucky if they last a days flying.

Must admit I never used to turn them on either but if if someone wanted them on I didn't bring the subject up. The school owner if he spotted they were on most certainly would bring the subject up. Most of the time unless there were night ratings in the offing they would be duds anyway.

And on the subject of Nav lights I know you don't have to but they really do help if someone is trying to avoid hitting you if you have them on. Nav lights and strobes work for me day and night.

There is alot of theory out there that it makes you more visible but in reality the landing light has a very small arc in front of the aircraft which it is doing any good and also it is pointing in the direction which you have a very good view of anyway.

Even at night you need to have them working but that doesn't mean you have to use them. I got MOR'd by a tower for landing with them off on a dark stormy night with a cloud base of 001 bkn and RVR of 700m and thick snow falling. If you had them on you could barely see 5m past the nose and the glare was effecting my vision. With them turned off it was fine picked up the approach lights at 300ft and had good visual references for the flare. The company never even heard from the CAA asking to justify my actions so I presume it got to the pilot side of things and was stopped there.

It can be a very emotive subject and to be honest I expect a bit of flak for what I have written. There is no requirement to have them turned on for day VFR in fact quite a few aircraft don't even have them fitted. And the benefits in the grand scope of things are relatively small compared to maintaining a good look out around the full arc that you can see. A fancy high viz paint job on your aircraft is more of a factor than having a working head light.

[jxk]

I wonder why (aircraft:-)) landing lights are so short lived? The ones in my car seem to go on forever and they're used in all weathers, on rough bumpy roads as well as being flashed (if you'll excuse the expression). I've heard about people adding resistors in parallel to reduce the initial power surge - so is there a mod we can do to increase their life? It's not necessarily the cost but the inconvenience of having to replace them.

[pulse1]

Another advantage of a Permit aircraft is that landing light bulbs can be much cheaper. The GE halogen bulbs from an aircraft spares supplier cost over £15. The same bulbs from B&Q cost £2.50.

Recently, after a long straight in approach with the landing light on, I was told by ATC that they could see the light before they could see the aircraft (remember rich?). I am happy therefore that these bulbs are perfectly adequate and,so far, bulb life has not been a problem.

The experience also encouraged me to use them more often.

[mad_jock]

Probably its some bollocks about getting someone to pay to get a new light approved. They really are ****e though.

so is there a mod we can do to increase their life

Not really its the hot cold cycles and high temp which kill them quickest which is maybe why they die so quickly in a training environment. Every student checking they are working, then off and on depending what the local procedure is. Having them on with no airflow over them really screws them so if people turn everything on then take 10 mins doing a walk round its probably worth about 10 hours of flight usage.

If you look at the box they come in I saw one that claimed 100 hours. Its lasted 15 hours of night ratings and cost 50 quid to supply and fit and to be honest they were only really on for the solo work and taxi and a couple of circuits for each student. So worked out at over 5 quid per hour of usage. I can really understand why owners don't want you using them. If you feel you must use them turn them on at 500ft leave them on, then turn them off either on short finals or on the roll out (much as I hate saying that because I don't believe you should be doing anything until you are clear of the runway).

[ShyTorque]

I got MOR'd by a tower for landing with them off on a dark stormy night with a cloud base of 001 bkn and RVR of 700m and thick snow falling. If you had them on you could barely see 5m past the nose and the glare was effecting my vision. With them turned off it was fine picked up the approach lights at 300ft and had good visual references for the flare. The company never even heard from the CAA asking to justify my actions so I presume it got to the pilot side of things and was stopped there.


The reason you never heard from the CAA is that there is no legal requirement to use landing lights and it's really no business of ATC to try to mandate what other lights are used by a pilot, other than the mandatory ones.

Years ago I returned from Germany to Manston (then RAF) in bad weather, in a recently modified RAF Puma. It had one of the first pilot selectable red / white strobe type anti-collision beacons fitted. As I hover taxied in, the tower controller told me I had a red strobe on. I replied "Roger, thanks" and carried on hover taxying. He then immediately replied "turn off your strobe!" I did. He said "Put your anti-collision light on!" I turned the red strobe back on and he immediately said "TURN OFF YOUR STROBE!" I said: "I'll call you on landing."

After we landed, I rang him up and had a further "discussion", during which I explained that the red strobe he was looking at WAS the ONLY anti-collision light fitted and invited him to come down to the aircraft and show me which "other" switches he would like selected. :ugh:

[mad_jock]

I would imagine hover taxiing in one of them mechanical palm tree things requires both hands and feet so to speak.

So I have a bit of confusion about which bit of your body you used to flick the switch with.

[ShyTorque]

As the writing on the t shirt says: "Happiness is a big chopper".

[Whirlygig]

On a Schweizer, the landing lamp switches are on the cyclic so you use your pinky.

Otherwise, landing lamp on, lift, take off, at 500ft, you're high enough to take a hand off the collective and switch it off.

Cheers

Whirls

[mad_jock]

Do helicopter landing lights suffer from the same problems as the plank ones?

[ShyTorque]

500 feet! How long does THAT take? ;)

No hands off below that height? What happens if ATC want you to change to another frequency?

I don't mind taking my hand off the collective in the hover, or hover taxy, if necessary (that will possibly start another heated discussion :) ) .

[Whirlygig]

Do helicopter landing lights suffer from the same problems as the plank ones?What problems would those be then? :confused:

ShyT, 500ft at Vy of 42kts and I'm still in the circuit :}. And I double dare you to take your hand off the collective in a 5ft hover in an R22. :E

Cheers

Whirls

[mad_jock]

they are ****e and the bulb goes after 10 hours normal usage.

Making most fixed wing aircraft landing light (fecked) after 15 hours out the hanger. Which it will remain until the next 50 hour

[ShyTorque]

ShyT, 500ft at Vy of 42kts and I'm still in the circuit . And I double dare you to take your hand off the collective in a 5ft hover in an R22.


You could double dare me to to be at a 5ft hover in an R22 at all and you know you would win. ;)

(But you made the comment in one aircraft type to take off and jumped into another to hover. You pilots with more than one type in your logbook, eh? :p)

[rich_g85]

Recently, after a long straight in approach with the landing light on, I was told by ATC that they could see the light before they could see the aircraft (remember rich?)I certainly do remember! That's the main reason I asked the question really, as if they could see us from what, 4 miles away surely it's worth switching it on! :)

[Leezyjet]

A little memory aid that you can use any time you enter the runway for takeoff or exit after landing is "Lights, Camera, Action"
Lights: landing light and strobes
Camera: Transponder to Alt or standby
Action: Mixture, Fuel Pump, doors/windows.

I use ATPL when entering the runway for take off :-

A - Altimeter - double check the correct QNH/QFE is set on all the altimeters.
T- Transponder - alt.
P- Pitot heat - on.
L - Landing/stobe lights - on.

When airborne, landing light off once clear of the circuit.

On the way back in, landing light on entering the ATZ and off during the after landing checks once vacated which then becomes F(A)TPL.

F - Flaps - retract
(A) - miss this one out,
T - Transponder - stby
P - Pitot heat - off
L - Landing/strobe lights - off

Easy to remember too as thats what a lot of people are training for !!.

:ok:

[mattuk1]

funny, i also use ATPL when cleared for take-off but;

A = Approach is clear
T = Transponder ALT sqawking 7000
P = Pitot heat ON
L = Landing light ON

[Cows getting bigger]

I leave it on all the time below 2000ft unless it is distracting me. As for those who say the bulb blows every ten hours or so, splash out on a better bulb and mount it with the filament being vertical, not horizontal. :ok:

[BradG]

Under the FARs, unless the aircraft has a MEL, aren't you required to have everything working? I know a landing light isn't required for VFR flying, but one of my instructors told me that since the aircraft is equipped with it, if it's inop it has to be placarded inop and a maintenance logbook entry made by an A&P. And if you're going to go through that much effort, you might as well just change the damn thing unless you're not planning to use the aircraft at night for a long time.

[bjornhall]

Under the FARs, unless the aircraft has a MEL, aren't you required to have everything working?

I really like that approach, and would much prefer it was that way. But that's not how it works on this side of the puddle...

[FlapsFive]

I use SPLIT on takeoff:
Strobes... ON
Pitot... ON (or not)
Landing Light... ON
Instruments... Check (yet to find out what to do with that to be honest)
Transponder... Mode Charlie

Then for entering the ATZ, good ol' FREDAL:
Fuel... Sufficient
Radio... On, Squelch, Volume, Frequency
Engine... T's & P's, Carb Heat, Mixture
DI... Align
Altimeter... Check pressure & (Assigned) Altitude
Landing Light... On

[BackPacker]

Instruments... Check (yet to find out what to do with that to be honest)

Just scan the sixpack
Airspeed - zero unless there's a howling headwind, sufficient to lift the needle of its bottom stops (generally 30+ knots or so)
Horizon - level
Altimeter - at 0 if QFE set, at airfield elevation if QNH set (+/- 15 feet or so)
CDI - Ball in the middle, CDI level although it does take the CDI a second or so to get level if you just turned onto the runway.
DI - once lined up should match the runway you're taking off from
VS - zero

Most important ones to get right are obviously the Alt and DI. Those require a manual setting. The others, any deviation from what they should read is a mechanical failure.

Furthermore, my home base has a VOR in line with the runway centerline. I set the OBS to the heading of the runway in use (while listening to the ATIS) and once lined up check that the needle is in the center. You could do the same thing with an ILS. And in our case the ATIS is exclusively on that VOR frequency so it's selected in NAV1 anyway.

[mad_jock]

Every light aircraft has a MEL. The SEP FAA MMEL which is a devil to find on the net and keeps moving. The UK just references that one.

It boils down to not a lot needing to be working and the landing light is 120days deferrable with a day restriction.

[bjornhall]

Every light aircraft has a MEL. The SEP FAA MMEL which is a devil to find on the net and keeps moving. The UK just references that one.

Now hold on a sec, just out of curiosity, do you have a source to such a regulation? Just because there is a MMEL does not mean you can operate with that as your MEL. Are you talking about commercial or non-commercial aviation?

I have not been able to find anything conclusive regarding what does or does not have to work during flight, except vague statements that anything that is not required for the flight can be broken (e.g. landing lights during daytime).

Edited to add: BTW, according to that MMEL, the landing light is Category C, i.e., only 10 days deferable...

[mad_jock]

MEL is either the same or more restrictive than the MMEL so if there isn't one publish with the aircraft it becomes the defacto MEL. I was pointed towards it by a flight ops inspector for making up a part B.

I don't have a clue if it is commercial and private my only dealings with it were for putting a C172 on a A to A AOC. I have a sneaky feeling it is only for public transport flights.

Sorry its been years since I looked at it so am quite happy that its a 10 day.

If you looking for some form of reference to force your aircraft provider into fixing landing lights this argument has been running for years. They will always quote the minimum required as stated in the ANO. Which to be honest is next to nothing. Its up to you as PIC to accept the aircraft or not. The only thing you can do is vote with your feet and not hire off that provider.


On or off I don't really care, I don't think it makes that much difference compared to some people. I certainly wouldn't bring it up in a debrief either way.

[mad_jock]

Just to note I am one of those pilots who would run thier own plane with everything working all the time with no snag lists.

I have seen time and time again that if you keep on top of all the little problems all of the time.

a. Keeps pilots happy
b. The aircraft is nicer to fly.
c. Personally I think less go wrong with them if they are getting TLC.
d. Pilots look after them more.
f. It is cheaper in the long run as the plane retains more value.

And every penny of hangarage is well worth it to not only the enjoyment of flying the aircraft but also the offset to the maint costs of keeping it outside.