Advice needed urgently should i start now?

[ba038]

Basically ive been on and off these forums for a year now ,my situation is that im finishing my AS course going onto A2`s this september....im like many of those young ones aspiring to be a airline pilot......but cant make my mind up of when to start all i read from other peoples posts are positive or negative ....alongside a resccsion/high unemployment etc .....

however picture that im building in my head right now is 2 routes

1) see how the economy is next year january and hopefully apply to oaa to start in september ....(finish around 2012 ....does that put me in a good position for job prospects?


or


2) Do some sort of aviation degree for a year at city universerty ....tht should buy another year for the economy to recover then join oaa.



please people can i have decent opinions and stright answers although stright answers will be difficult .

Any help will be appreciated
Thank you

[doogle92]

heya,

I'm pretty much in the same position as you, looking to go to OAA after finishing A levels.
What i've picked up from here (and elsewhere) is that doing an aviation related degree is not a good idea. If you are planning to go and do a degree do it on something else that way if becoming a pilot falls through you've got something else to fall back on.

[TheBeak]

I can't recommend enough to you do NOT get an aviation degree. What a waste of time. If you want a degree, get a proper one. If you want to be a pilot then train to be a pilot. If you want 'a back up plan' that people seem to go on about then do a PROPER degree and then train. As for the timing, why not get a job after you leave school, work for a year saving as much cash as you can and then use that for living expenses while training, and then consider the flying training at OAA? If your goal is to be a pilot and someone is willing to go guarantor for the money there is no desperate hurry to get it done right now.

[ba038]

yh thts true ive also considered tht aswell but tht would mean another 3 years or so with extra debt....,need some adivice to see if its gonna be the right time to start next year ..in order to see if i can get a job when i come out.....

[TheBeak]

If you are looking for a guarantee of a job join the RAF. Otherwise, welcome to the real world.

[ba038]

not looking for a ganrantee ,and ive seen and heard howz it lyk out there at the moment but 2013 job prospects going to be OK or still the same situation as we have today.

[TheBeak]

It is impossible to say. I would hope that things have begun to improve by then. I would strongly recommend going out and working in industry for a year or two to earn money and gain life experience. Consider flying lessons to solo or gliding as well to see how you fare in an aircraft. There is always a risk of not getting a job, I know nice guys and girls who couldn't get one 2-3 years ago and it was a very good time then. And I am not being an ar*e but spell things properly.

[Nashers]

one question.... why only OAA?

[GBB]

You all seem to look for "advice" but wont take one telling you what is happening out there right now!
Why dont you just say that you want somebody to tell you, go ahead, now is the best time to ask your parents for 80K loan :ugh:
Time and time again and see highschool seniors coming on pprune talking about going to OAA or other FTO with integrated courses.
You all seem to talk about all this very "lightly", but yet you never had a proper job, lived on your own and have NO clue whats REAL life looks like, and what 80K loan means. :confused:
Well, do whatever you want... Its you parents money. :ugh:

[Bealzebub]

Despite the title of the thread, the advice you are seeking isn't urgent. An hour or so reading these forums should give you a fairly good idea of the state of the aviation job market for low houred pilots. Experienced commercial pilots come to that.

There is no urgency, take your time and research your options carefully in your own time. While your at it, could you try and avoid using text speak in your posts, as it makes them look rather odd and unnecessarily rushed and clumsy?

[ba038]

gbb -- what is up with pprune always with negative comments.and infact i have had a proper job ive worked at my bro`s law firm in the city for 6 weeks and also have many retail experinece so dont be rude.

thebreak - i appreciate all you have said.

[quant]

ba038 go for it. I've begun already (modular), i did get into OAA but i decided against it due to the current market conditions.

Be aware that it's rough out there but you can get a good training deal at the moment. I have multiple degrees (in maths, physics) but i can't for the life of me work out why people are calling aviation degrees rubbish? When i got on a graduate scheme i met people who had studied zoology, aviation related subject, botany etc and we all were training to become financial analysts and some like me have become quants! IMHO the classification of the degree is important but what you study isn't!


I'm loving every minute of flying ;)

Good luck :ok:

[Nashers]

six weeks working in a law firm is not living in the real world.

ive been in the same place as you are in right now. the only thing i can say, like ive said before somewhere on here is decide with your brain, not your heart and you will make the decission right for you.

and again, one questoin... why OAA?

[Kiev23]

He`s choosen OAA because it is PERCIEVED that they have the best employment prospects after training.

Correct me if iam wrong?

[ba038]

first of all sorry for the mispellings and txt writing im at work and having to whizz bk and forth the forums....

i titled it urgent because of finance longstory........

many have asked why oaa......ive just mentioned it for an example and i most probably may go for it aswell as keeping in mind ctc ,fte ,cabair.

nashers - sixs week in a law firm ....also working in various different retail stores aswell as a waiter ...more or less the taste of the so called real world isnt that far off for me ....but i do take into account what you have said.

[James D]

Quant;

IMHO the classification of the degree is important but what you study isn't!

Off topic i'm afraid but that is utter nonsense in my opinion, if the years I did in the city banks are anything to go by.

If anything what you studied and probably more importantly where you studied it are the crucial factors. I never saw anyone without a degree in a "proper" subject from a "proper" university even get an interview for any of the junior roles on the trading desks or equity research dept that I worked for. I'd sooner take someone with a 3rd in maths/physics/eng from a top institution over a 1st in botany/zoology/aviation related (excluding aero eng obviously).

[disco87]

Maybe he has been to OAA and liked the place? just a thought

[ba038]

Tottally agree with you james D.

[Aerospace101]

NO! DO NOT START TRAINING NOW - or within the next 1-2yrs.

The airline industry is in MELTDOWN at the moment. Despite what FTOs are saying, it will take YEARS and YEARS to recover from the severe downturn we are in - and we still havent reached the bottom. IATA has doubled its original estimate of airline losses for this year. NO AIRLINES are recruiting at the moment (except for hold pools or pay to fly schemes). And they wont be recruiting for YEARS.

My advice would be take option 2 - got to UNI but do a "proper" degree. City flight ops degree is useless outside aviation so if you want a good backup plan for another career then look somewhere else.
OR get a job after your Alevels and work for a few years.

We have all been in your position of "WANTING IT REALLY BADLY and BECOMING A PILOT". However now is not the time to take the plunge. Remember the average age of Integrated students is 23-26. So you still have ages of time to start training. Dont rush into it because you have no rush.

Hope that is of some help/insight and good luck.

[Kiev23]

Exactly what iam dong at the moment, iam a year older though just finishing my A2 exams this summer. I will be working for the next few years so i dont hav debt when going into training.

Have you thought about doing your class one medical before you decide not to go to uni ?

I did mine this time last year, which secured my mind that i would work for a few years then go and train.

[ba038]

Aerospace101 - True to say but even though the whole entire industry is going downhill.....i am going to go integrated some time in the future....
its still hard decision to make because as if i do go uni and study and 2 years into the course the airline industry is starting to pick or has picked up i presume i will need to be in a position where i am trained and ready to go rather then start.....but all in all uni is an option for me aswell .....patience is probably key in my circumstances .....lets see how the airline industry is around 2010....

just to throw in aswell vince cable recently visited my college and is been proven that he was 1 of the few people to predict the recession,i posed him the question when do you think economy will start improving? ....he said to me no-one has the answer but his prediction was mid 2010......

Kiev23 - yes ive thought about it hopefully going to do it in august some time ...hopefully shouldnt have any problems.

[ba038]

Kiev23 - just to mention to you its easy to say ill work for a few years and save cash but as you work many things change from you day to day circumstances and you have certain desires that may make you spend money rather then save things such as fancy cars ,relationships,and plus many say you should get education done and dustied when your a young person,others may have different opinions but the point im trying to make is that once mooney is in your hands you may have other desires to spend it on ....and most probably youll end up working for the low sector jobs such as retail ,waitress,(unless you have links) .little pay and youll have to work your way up and once your up at the top in a company youll have doubts on weather to leave.

just my opinion.......but still its a viable option.

[quant]

James:

Off topic i'm afraid but that is utter nonsense in my opinion, if the years I did in the city banks are anything to go by.

If anything what you studied and probably more importantly where you studied it are the crucial factors. I never saw anyone without a degree in a "proper" subject from a "proper" university even get an interview for any of the junior roles on the trading desks or equity research dept that I worked for. I'd sooner take someone with a 3rd in maths/physics/eng from a top institution over a 1st in botany/zoology/aviation related (excluding aero eng obviously).

What a complete load of bs... off course you're entitled to your opinion but i doubt you have worked for any city banks..

drivel...

[Whirlygig]

Well I have, and I'd rather take on someone with a 3rd in Maths from Cambridge than a 1st in sociology from Middlemarch Poly. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[James D]

off course you're entitled to your opinion but i doubt you have worked for any city banks..
drivel...

Thats a bold statement, I've actually worked at two full time and a summer internship at another whilst at uni years ago. Most recent position trading interest rate & volatility derivatives at a large European house.

Its not so much my opinion but more an observation of how my superiors have gone about selecting which cvs to call in for interview at the banks i've worked for.

Are you a real "quant" or one of these middle office/IT fantasist types??

[Ollie23]

Whirlygig-Well said.

I saw plenty of candidates CVs, whose degree ended in "studies" or similar, fast tracked to the shredder bin by my boss.

[quant]

Thats a bold statement, I've actually worked at two full time and a summer internship at another whilst at uni years ago. Most recent position trading interest rate & volatility derivatives at a large European house.

Its not so much my opinion but more an observation of how my superiors have gone about selecting which cvs to call in for interview at the banks i've worked for.

Are you a real "quant" or one of these middle office/IT fantasist types??

It's quite clear you work in IT and have no experience what-so-ever working on any desk. Keep dreaming noobie and maybe one day you'll make it to the front desk with your 3rd class degree.

[Whirlygig]

Quant, stop digging now - no need to get personal.

Your original premise

MHO the classification of the degree is important but what you study isn't!
is flawed. Don't know how much actual recruiting you've done but I've done a fair amount including graduate recruitment programmes. Whilst your initial examples of biology, zoology and aviation being degrees of sufficient standing to get a job as a quantitative analyst do stand up to scrutiny, your sweeping generalisation above doesn't.

Life sciences and engineering subjects are sufficiently mathematical to warrant an interview for any finance analyst postion; media studies isn't.

Don't forget, when recent graduates are doing the milk rounds and graduate fairs, it's often some crusty old middle-aged pedant like me who's doing the recruiting and sifting the CVs.

Cheers

Whirls

[Grass strip basher]

Quant I have done many years in the City and have worked in "front office" roles at many banks on top ranked teams (GS, UBS, ML etc etc) and the fact is on many of the Citys "graduate training schemes" what has been mentioned is true... to get on them you need a top degree from a top uni (social studies won't cut it).

There are of course other ways in but I have spent many years interviewing candidates to join our desks and if you are a fresh faced grad you simply have to have a top degree to get in (prefer a numerical bias).... the competition straight out of uni is intense.

Once you are in and have a few years under your belt then I don't give a hoot where you came from... then I can check you track record/talk to clients to find out what you are like.

Anyway all a bit off topic.... as for BA 038.... "ive worked at my bro`s law firm in the city for 6 weeks and also have many retail experinece so dont be rude".... in light of this comment I suggest going to uni and then work for a few years to help you grow up a bit.... also drop the "text speak" makes you look like an idiot and is not typically well received by those a few years older than yourself.

[Kiev23]

I might want to spend my money that i earn, but if i want to be a pilot ( which i do ) i know iam not going to be able to. If i have a huge desire to spend the money, then i can just get my dad to look after all my wages, that way he wud prevent me from spending it, but iam not even gonna let it get to that.

I appreiciate its a tough decision, just for me i didnt think i could afford to go to uni, come out with 12k debt sumet like that, then get a job and pay off the debt and save up to be a pilot.

Can i ask whos actually paying for your integrated course?

[Grass strip basher]

"wud"... "sumet".... "get my dad to look after my money".... are you for real??

I don't mean to be rude but if people can't write properly and have to ask their dad to look after their money because they aren't responsible enough to do it themselves... how the hell do you expect to get through an interview/selection process??

No wander flight schools survive.... like taking candy from a baby... :oh:

[James D]

Quant;

Oh dear! Appears I hit a bit close to home with that last statement.

I only started down this track as I didn't think your first statement was true to the reality I’ve seen, wasn't expecting you to throw the toys out of the pram nor was i expecting a slanging match.
If you'd like to have a willy waving competition regarding our comparative city careers please PM me and I’ll be be more than happy to enlighten you.

Whirlygig has it about spot on with her last post. She sounds like someone who has actually done some recruiting in a technical field.

[Kiev23]

I didnt say i HAVE to ask my dad to look after my wages, iam perfectly capable of looking after them myself. All i said was IF i kept spending my wages, which i know i wont because it makes the whole idea of saving up to be a pilot pointless, i could always ask my dad to look after them.

As for the abbreviations.........iam hardly going to go through a selection process abbreviating all my words.

[Whirlygig]

The danger, is whether you (plural) are actually aware of the number of grammatical and spelling mistakes you make? It's all very well to say that typing on a forum doesn't warrant correct English and if you were completing an application form, you would complete it correctly. Is your knowledge of English good enough to do that?

Making the effort to write/type correctly is a sign of respect towards those who are reading. I have had to backspace a number of times and make corrections as I believe it is important to get things right. I am, in effect, whilst making a point, showing some respect for the other Ppruners who may be reading this. I also want to make sure that the points which I make are intelligible to everyone else. We all make mistakes and everyone makes typos. However, it is easy to spot the difference between a typo and genuine sloppiness.

Sorry but if you do know how to write properly and don't, it is indicative that you have no pride in what you do and no respect for how others percieve you.

If you want professional people on here to take your views seriously, then address those people in a manner befitting of that.

These points are addressed to anyone of any age who doesn't see the importance, not just you Kiev so don't take it personally. :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[Kiev23]

I totally understand what your saying, and yeah I agree, from now on I wont type in abbreviations.

Thank You Whirlywig sound advise.....:)

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

The thread appears to have crept away somewhat from the question the chap originally asked. Should he start now? Well no-one can really say I'm afraid.

My own personal advice would be if you wish to start sooner rather than later, I'd seriously consider going modular, the timing of which is a bit more under your control. However you could wait until things start to look like they are picking up in the economy, then do an integrated course to get you through in a year or so. That way, even taking into account a years lag to do the course you should hit any upswing that might occur. (Although my personal opinion is that we won't see any significant upswing for quite sometime to come yet, however none of us have a crystal ball, that is solely my own personal opinion).

Anyway, good luck whichever way you do it.

[Thick Blue Line]

If you work in city banking then of course you will have had to do a job specific degree at a university recognised by that sector. Thats no different to going in to medicine or law. However, not everybody has the means, grades or inclination to do this and, without entering in to a debate about universities and courses - in some respects anything is better than nothing.

I know plenty of people who are in good jobs earning good money who have qualifications completely unrelated to their profession.

I think its easy to be elitist about further education. My advice would be do something that will interest you enought to stick to it, is at least somehow likely to help you in the job market (ie not a degree in David Beckham if they still do them!) and try to keep your uni costs down.

When all is said and done I feel fortunate I am not having to make the difficult decisions that some posters are at 18/19/20 years old. Its a difficult tiume for anyone making their way at the moment.

[Whirlygig]

If you work in city banking then of course you will have had to do a job specific degree at a university recognised by that sector. Thats no different to going in to medicine or law.
No, the point has been made by several people that many roles in the finance industry can go to trainees with mathematical/scientific/engineering degrees, not business and finance. I did a degree in nuclear physics before I became an accountant and, at the time I joined, the preference was for trainees who didn't have relevant degrees as they were less likely to start with preconceived ideas and had some experience of a different field - useful when auditing British Nuclear Fuels :}

The upshot is, if you are going to do a degree, stick to the traditional maths/science/engineering degrees from one of the old universities rather than an ex-poly (Salford and Hatfield being exceptions :ok:).

Personally, I would also advise modular training at the moment.

Cheers

Whirls

[ba038]

Grass strip basher


All you give out is negative comments -----




--If you actually read the previous posts i have apologised for it -----


"text speak" makes you look like a idiot"

[Whirlygig]

I'm afraid that any pilot, whether qualified or not, needs to learn to accept negative comments and criticism.

What are perceived as negative comments are equally as valid as the positive ones and should be taken with equal measure. As long as comments don't get personal (which is a matter between the posters concerned and the moderators), then take them with the spirit in which they were meant.

Cheers

Whirls

[getoffmycloud]

BA038... there is a difference between text speak and a typo.... but I hope you already knew that.

From reading your posts I would seriously go away and do something else for a couple of years. You will come back more mature and wise to the world and in a better position to make your own decisions. The industry may even be picking up then and you will still have age on your side.

Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history as well as working as a waiter whilst admirable is a bit lame. But in time you will come to see that. Perhaps when you do finally see that this just makes you look like a plonker it will be a good time for you to start training... then you will have enough maturity to look back at some of your posts on here and cringe.

Good luck but there is nothing "urgent" about your situation at present.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Its a very stupid time to enter the pilot market.

Its a very stupid idea to do some random degree as 'a backup'.

The most logical strategy is to cease costly education, enter paid work, save, then start vocational pilot training in a few years time with adequate savings and minimal debt.


Unfortunately this isn't an enticing or exciting plan. It is however correct.


WWW

[TheBeak]

Exactly right, if you or anyone else in your position wants advice and you are certain you want to be a pilot then follow WWWs advice.

[ba038]

WWW --- one of the most logical answer ive had judging from the previous posts.

Thank you

As for "getoffmycloud"

"Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history"


I think your a bit immature to judge an individual like that regardless of their work or even what they have posted on this forum.

One may say the most stupid thing yet merely just to get an opinion or even answer,but judging an individual like that is wrong and i suggest you dont do it to any other people in this forum.

And with regards to the statement above NO i wasnt serving coffe at all -this just shows you jumping into conclusions and being prejudice.


"makes you look like a plonker"

I also believe this statement you made ,you think i am sort of a "plonker" right now ummmm makes me think sort of person you are.

Whirlygig- yes i do agree with you but certain negative comments which
"Grass strip basher" mentioned ,i personally believe it was a bit inappropriate but hey i am on pprune.

[1mag1n3]

Heh, WWW, good post! Direct and gets a valid point across.

Just to say, I am doing what you have said, with 2 interviews in the pipeline. Both are trainee paid/sponsored degree programs and providing you pass you get a job at the end. Lets hope the interviews go well!

But once again, for the time being this post should be the first thing wannabes should see on this forum in this climate!

[Grass strip basher]

I make no apology for my comments. In what way were they inappropriate?? You think text speak doesn't make you look like an uneducated idiot?? We will have to disagree on that.

Pprune is full of young naive wanabees fresh out of school who have no idea as to the value of money and are ready and willing to sink £70-80k in debt to fund a "dream" during one of the nastiest recessions we have seen for years.

If folks come one here with a load of "text" speak and have to ask dad to look after their money because they lack the self control to look after it themselves frankly they need to spend a couple of years "maturing" before they consider spending £70-80k on flight training. Or do you disagree? There is no polite way to tell people this.

BA038 I am sure you were doing really really important work at your brothers firm.... they must have been devastated when you left to go back to school.
Everyone with any level of experience on this thread is telling you to go away and work and save for a few years. Then you will be a little older and wiser and have some money tucked away to start training.

I am not your mum and frankly I don't give a stuff if what I say offends you... I have been around long enough to have very thick skin.. although I did laugh at you calling Getofmycloud immature :8:}.... we all bow to your superior experience gleamed from an extensive 6 weeks placement and time spent as a waiter.... ah the arrogance of youth... I remember when I was like that! :}

I have corrected the typo in my previous post.... I appreciate the need for correct grammar/spelling :} etc when addressing other people.

[cwatters]

Going for an avation degree sounds like putting all your eggs in one basket. I'd go for a degree that is likely to give career options in an industry that pays well enough to do some private flying if an airline career doesn't work out.

[edmooriginal]

Ba038,

If you want to start flight training then start training. If you want to go to Uni and enjoy yourself before you start flight training then do it. Don't try and forecast the market and don't listen to people thinking they can.

Personally I wouldn't spend the money with Oxford. I'd rather keep 20k in hand, at least, for a type rating (shock horror). Training will be hard, you will feel like giving up but the important thing is to just keep plugging.

You may of discovered PPrune isn't the best place to get advice.

I can feel about a million responses comming on pulling my opinions, grammer and spelling apart. OMG IMAO etc













There's a 50p prize for the clever old chap who can point out the deliberate spelling mistake in this response! A bonus of a £1 will be awarded for finding the deliberate grammatical error. Answers on a postcard.

[TheBeak]

It's grammar and not grammer - I was corrected on here for that!

You may of discovered PPrune isn't the best place to get advice.

'
Two reasons for pulling this one up,it should be 'it may have not 'of'' and it is an arrogant and cras statement. All advice should be taken on board, it is obvious to your own circumstances what is rubbish and what isn't.

So one of those was a genuine mistake:


There's a 50p prize for the clever old chap who can point out the deliberate spelling mistake in this response! A bonus of a £1 will be awarded for finding the deliberate grammatical error. Answers on a postcard.

and the other was not given you have said mistake without an 's'!

[edmooriginal]

I feared that would happen.

I was deliberately being cras and arrogant. This does however seem to be SOP in the wannabes forum.

Well done anyway!

[Thick Blue Line]

Its amazing you know, I first used this forum ten years ago, then re-subscribed more recently - and it hasn't changed a bit!

The snotty retorts, hyper-criticism and eagerness to put-down is still alive and well.

Yes, text speak and poor spelling does look scruffy but to be fair the poor fella's not here for an interview! It was mentioned once, if people don't like it don't read it!

There is a wealth of information on this forum, but it is spoiled by the hostility shown to points raised or questions made that are not to peoples liking.

It's a 'wannabe' forum - there are going to be young people with little or no job experience on here, I'm sure they dont need to have their noses rubbed in it every time they show a perceived lack of maturity - some posters are having a go at very easy targets!

And worst of all - I am a little guilty of it too! shame on me!

I solemnly swear that I shall be pleasant, tolerant and supportive - unless someone has a go at me! :cool:

[ba038]

Grass strip basher - i cannot be bothered wasting my time and effort arguing over you ,thats why im not not going to give you my thoughts or opinions about you ,your a waste of time anyone can see that.

Besides everything i was going to say at this time and moment "Thick Blue Line" has already said it for me.

Thank you for your sound advice -edmooriginal,cwatters.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Ideally I'd like to be always supportive, explanatory, balanced and fulsome in my answers. Scroggs my retired co-moderator was nearly all the time.

Unfortunately to the effort to do destroys you mentally so you just have to be blunt to survive as a moderator of Wannabes. Its a never never ending army of zombies intent of spending as much as possible as quickly as possible to go directly to the flightdeck of either a Bus or a Boeing. It never changes, the questions remain the same and the issues are constant.

The only thing that does change is the background of the industry. From boom (2005) to bust (2009) it can be a hell of a rollercoaster.

Entering the market now is a poor strategy. Keep your powder dry.

WWW


ps PPRuNe is the *BEST* place for advice as there are opinions here devoid of vested interests. That's priceless.

[dartagnan]

the best advice you can give to a wanabe, is DON'T...

but some don't want to understand!

[Thick Blue Line]

Quote - ps PPRuNe is the *BEST* place for advice as there are opinions here devoid of vested interests. That's priceless.

I would completely agree!

Its a fine balance as clearly some punters struggle to take advice made with the best intentions. It would however be a shame if the attitude of some prevented others benefitting from what the forum has to offer.

[Desk-pilot]

My advice is to do nothing (apart from maybe some fun PPL flying) for a year or even two. I have to agree with WWW - it's as bad now as I've ever seen it and I've been in aviation (though not as a pilot) since 1995.

I spoke with some old BA chums last week. Their soom and gloom shocked me - there are possibl going to be hundreds less BA pilots flying in a couple of years and my own company Flybe has frozen all recruitment for the foreseeable future and they have always been a solid recruiter of low hours types. Only Ryanair seems to be recruiting and you have to ask yourself if you are prepared to subject yourself to that after spending £60-£100k.

As an aside if I were young and keen to fly there's no question the best flying in the UK is to be had in the RAF. I have flown with many ex RAF pilots in the past couple of years and have been astounded by how much better in many ways life as an RAF pilot is than in the airline sector nowadays. They pay ALL your training, you get to fly some of the most fantastic hardware around, you get paid far more than you would in any likely first airline job, plus the flying is far more exciting and from what I can gather the hours are a dammned sight more sociable too! Many of the guys I fly with are ex- Herc and Nimrod and seemingly they didn't fly anything like as much as us airline guys do, had miles more time off, got to visit loads of interesting places (which they actually had time to explore) and they hardly seemed to fly at weekends or at the antisocial times many airline guys have to!

I'm not even mentioning the cheap beer, the culture, the training, the pension at age 40 and the kudos with babes that saying you're an RAF pilot still has!

I know which ay I'd be heading if I had my time again! Then after 10-20 years of the world's best flying you can still become a civilian pilot if that floats your boat!

Don't get me wrong, I love civilian flying, but there's no question there has been a dramatic sea change in the working hours versus the pay in the past ten years. There are a few bastions of high pay and civilised lifestyle left - Thomsonfly, BA, Virgin, Monarch, Thomas Cook but those are the jobs everybody wants and they're also the airlines who aren't recruiting!

Desk-pilot

[betpump5]

I'd like to add to desk-pilot and say that the "soom and gloom of BA pilots" does NOT shock me. I am seeing it here in South East Asia and not just with my ex-pat counterparts. I am talking about the 10'000 hour nationals as well.

If you take the basic stages from GA to flying a 747 for example and not take fleet expansion into account, then you need retirement and recruitment from the International Legacy carriers in order for pilots to move up the chain.

What is happening in the SE Asian aviation is as bad as the crash of the 'tiger economies' at the turn of the millennia or even during SARS. Recruitment is hovering slightly above absolute zero. And this is occurring back in blighty as well. This is the reason why 250hr cadets in the UK can not even get any FI jobs - even if they are willing to pay 6K or whatever it is to be an instructor.

Guys, if you are too excited and really want to start training then I won't put you off. You go for it.

BUT

PLEASE PLEASE at least hedge your bets and go for the lowest risk approach. Get Integrated training out of your silly heads (even if your parents are filthy rich - you are just wasting time) and go mod. Get yourself a job and go flying on weekends. It would take you about 3 years and probably very little in terms of loans. You become a pilot with very little debt and life experience. I certainly value that on the FD.

Use your brains kids.

[Danny1987]

How can someone who cant spell expect to gain an ATPL?:ugh:

[ba038]

danny1987 - its people like you that cant be bothered to read previous posts yet they are able to question an individual on how wrong they are.

[TheBeak]

Excellent posts by betpump5 and desk-pilot.

[Grass strip basher]

He's got the answer to his question... can we close this thread now?
Betpump5 and Deskpilot have summed up in a very polite way what I and others delivered with a less subtle sledge hammer to the face.

If he doesn't listen its his life.... his waiting experience will stand him in good stead when it comes to applying to McDonalds.... at least this gives him a something to fall back on.... (joke sorry I couldn't resist :})