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anttimik
4th Jun 2009, 19:27
I wasn't sure in which forum I should post this, so decided to put it here. Right now I'm few weeks away of completing my PPL(A) and after that proceeding towards IR, CPL, etc. I've been wondering how people do their flight planning and what kind of thoughts goes through their brain while flying.

What I'm trying to figure out is some kind of a perfect working rythm so to manage to get throught check lists, filling flight plan, reading map, changing frequencies and so on. Do you have some kind of methods of evaluating current wind conditions if it appears to differ from forecasts you have? Or easy formulas or equipment to use during flight to calculate glides and evaluations onto next checkpoint? What kind of things perfect pilot considers while flying?

I know this is quite wide and maybe bit difficult question to answer to, but if you have ideas feel free to share. :)

PompeyPaul
5th Jun 2009, 08:58
Apart from in some people's egos =D I, for one, am always suprised when flying long haul (i.e. 2hours plus for inexperienced me) by the frequencies and units controllers want to hand me over to.

I wish I could come up with a better way of working out who to receive a service from. I'm often happy to sit on "London Information" but Brize wanted to hand me over to Shobdon when tracking up towards Angelsey. I know as PIC it's up to me who I transfer over to, but you can't help but thing they know the airspace and area better than me so they are probably more informed as to who can offer the better service.

In a similar vein, I wish there was a better way for me to predict which reporting points units will ask me for. Currently I get the request and then spend the next 5mins searching the map for said reporting point. Maybe it's just experience and as you fly around the country more you'll get a better feel for controllers and reporting points, but right now it's always a suprise...

BackPacker
5th Jun 2009, 09:29
PP, the situation you are referring to is probably unique to the UK, where multiple radar-equipped units are able to give radar-based ATSOCAS (Air Traffic Service Outside Controlled Airspace) services in uncontrolled airspace. This in addition to the main "London Info" frequency that covers the whole airspace.

All these units (LARS, mostly) are in contact with each other and I've got the distinct feeling that they phone each other up regularly with a request to hand traffic over to them. "I want to work thisandthis traffic, can you hand him over to me?"

I've had this happen to me on almost every of the four flights I've made so far in UK airspace and it's true that this is rather unpredictable. It depends not only on the opening times of the LARS units involved but also on the amount of other traffic they might or might not have in their sector, and the controllers estimate of whether a conflict is possible, so whether it makes sense to pull an aircraft away from another unit.

But as I said this situation is rather unique to the UK. Most other places I've been to don't do ATSOCAS services, or don't do them like in the UK. This means that there's one ATC unit (frequency) assigned to a bit of airspace, regardless of whether this is controlled or uncontrolled airspace. If you want to talk to someone, or have to talk to someone, that unit is the one to talk to. You don't have to choose like in some parts of the UK.

To the OP: I find that having a decent plog sheet with spaces for ETAs, frequencies, fuel status, ATIS etc, filling this in fully before the flight and checking things off during flight (including calculation of new ETAs), plus regular FREDA checks, helps a lot in keeping track of everything that's relevant. Proper Preparation and all that. Despite this, if they want me to report my ETA for a waypoint that I didn't anticipate they'll get a polite "standby" while I use my rule of the thumb (one thumblength equals 10 miles or 5 minutes) to calculate it for them. Same for reroutes, either due to ATC requests or weather. Just roll with the punches.

IO540
5th Jun 2009, 09:30
PompeyPaul

The OP is in Finland but the two issues you mention don't have a "perfect" solution in the UK.

There are widely varying attitudes to who to call up next. In UK PPL training they teach you to callup everybody and their dog enroute. I call up only radar service capable units, and many others do that too. Outside the UK, there is usually not a distinction between a FIS and a "radar service" so if VFR touring you tend to call up the FIS region frequency shown on the map...

Reporting points are a perpetual hassle in VFR; you never know which one you are going to get and many are hard to spot. The best way is to print out the VFR plate / AIP entry for the departure / destination airports and learn the VRPs shown on that. It would be rare (and wrong) for ATC to assign one not shown on that, especially to a foreign visitor, but they do sometimes do it, in which case just say you cannot identify the VRP on your VFR area chart. VRPs are however notorious for being hard to find (easy for the locals, obviously) and I normally solve the VRP issue by flying with a GPS on which the VRPs are shown :) In the UK, VRPs usually have names like the absolutely classic "Nokia Factory". Outside the UK, they tend to have single letter names e.g. "S" and that one could be called "Sierra", "Point Sierra", "Sierra Point" or, if you go to La Rochelle the mad man who once worked there called it "Silver Point" which in hindsight is obvious but it wasn't at the time and the locals who heard the exchange didn't understand it either.

To me, the original question is very broad and I am not sure what to say. Flight planning procedures for VFR and IFR? One could write reams on that but specific questions are needed.

anttimik
5th Jun 2009, 10:53
Maybe I try to elaborate a little and be more specific. I mean that if you'd have to make a list of things to go through while flying what would there be? What my list at the moment includes is basics (maintaining altitude and heading, trimming the plane), radio frequencies (com, nav, FIR, ATIS), navigation instruments (VOR, ADF, they won't let us use GPS... :)), staying on the map, checklists, updating flight plan (estimating times and fuel consumption) and contacting ATC units. So going that list in my mind in sense of items in the list at the moment and near future. Is there something to be added to that list?

Also what I find difficult is evaluating the wind direction and velocity if it appears to differ from forecast. It becomes a problem when flight insctructor decides that we need to divert from course and I should estimate heading and time to the new destination.

Another thing is planning glides e.g. if you need to descend from 2500ft to 1300ft and try to evaluate time so that the intended altitude is reached in exact point. I guess it could be calculated with flight computer but the thought seems a bit impractical.

BackPacker
5th Jun 2009, 11:54
I mean that if you'd have to make a list of things to go through while flying what would there be? What my list at the moment includes is basics (maintaining altitude and heading, trimming the plane), radio frequencies (com, nav, FIR, ATIS), navigation instruments (VOR, ADF, they won't let us use GPS... ), staying on the map, checklists, updating flight plan (estimating times and fuel consumption) and contacting ATC units. So going that list in my mind in sense of items in the list at the moment and near future. Is there something to be added to that list?

Most of that is either a continuous process, covered in a FREDA check or one of the actions you need to perform when passing a waypoint. Just make sure to know which is which. Oh, and it makes sense to put waypoints in your plog not just when turning, but also when crossing a FIR boundary, even if no heading change is involved. FIR boundary means a frequency change, normally, and maybe an update on the QNH. Also ATC will usually want to know ETAs for FIR boundaries.

Also what I find difficult is evaluating the wind direction and velocity if it appears to differ from forecast. It becomes a problem when flight insctructor decides that we need to divert from course and I should estimate heading and time to the new destination.

In case of diversions, I just use the forecasted wind which is still penciled in on my flight computer. Or I just use the still-air heading and ETE, and apply an estimated fudge factor based on wind strength and direction. The PPL test standards are not that high that using the forecasted or the actual wind is going to make the difference between pass or fail at your skills test. Unless of course the actual wind is way, way different from the forecast, but that's something you should have noticed on your first leg.

Calculating the actual upper wind from in-flight data such as airspeed and drift is hard, and an imprecise science at least (unless you have a GPS coupled to your magnetic compass, ASI and ALT) so a rough guestimation will probably work as well as a lengthy calculation. Personally I prefer to look outside for other traffic, landmarks and such, and arriving at my diversion a few minutes earlier or later than expected, than spending a lot of time with my head in the cockpit replanning my flight in minute detail with the result of getting unsure of position (aka "lost").

Another thing is planning glides e.g. if you need to descend from 2500ft to 1300ft and try to evaluate time so that the intended altitude is reached in exact point. I guess it could be calculated with flight computer but the thought seems a bit impractical.

There are two rules of thumb that lead to a very comfortable 3 degree glidepath: Distance to descend in nm = 3 times the altitude to lose in 1000s of feet, and Vertical speed in ft/min = 5 times the groundspeed in knots.

Using those rules of thumb, to lose 2500 - 1300 = 1200 feet, you need 3x1.2 = 3.6 nm. When your groundspeed is 100 knots, your vertical speed should be 500 ft/min.

(And in your average spamcan, cruising at 100 knots at about 2350 rpm, a 500 ft/min descend requires you to reduce your RPMs by about 200 rpm. Don't change the trim, don't change speed, just reduce RPMs by 200. But that's something that's different from airplane to airplane.)

Pilot DAR
5th Jun 2009, 12:37
This could sound a little flippant, which is not intended. The pilots whom I have seen and flown with, who would appear to trying to be perfect, seem to me to be the ones who have the hardest time. Pilots having a hard time are more likely stressed, and thus opened to making mistakes.

I am required duing my work to consider the possible effects upon pilot workload, of changes to aircraft. Yes, the flying environment has complexities, which sometime can test one's capacity. To account for this, I always fall back to what I was taught in my very early IFR days: "Aviate - Navigate - Communicate" in that order. Everything you do while flying a plane can be described as one of the three foregoing activities. Once you know which one it is, you know what order of imprtance it holds during your flight. If doing the first safely, then maybe the second, you run out of capacity to accomplish the third right then, oh well, someone is going to have to understand. That's that!

If you are trying to do everything at once, you're going to miss something vital. There is an excuse for a pilot not reporting turning base, if failing to make that report assured that the wheels were extended. If you land with the wheels up, saying you were talking on the radio is not going to be accepted as an excuse. YOU must determine what is to be done to safely accomplish your flight.

I've been flying for thirty years, so you'd think I'd be able to handle talking on the radio. Recently, while flying a helicopter at a controlled airport, the task was so intense (longlining training), I could not manage the distraction of the radio, so I turned it right down. I aviated safely, and was very careful to navigate so as not to move anywhere which would create a reduction in safety for all other aircraft. I did not communicate. It worked. Saying that I crashed the helicopter because I was talking on the radio would not come across well at all!

If the flight you are considering, is going to involve complexities beyond your capability - weather or airspace (traffic), a perfect pilot (while still on the ground) would rethink the flight at all, and perhaps get help. If you have decided that you can manage the flight, the aircraft you fly will come with a checklist, I don't need to tell you to use it. Take paper and a reliable writing instrument, and take notes (when you are safely able - this is communication) of what ATC would like you to do next. Mentally extract the important elements, and read them back to ATC. That will increase the likelyhood that you have retained it and will remember it, and now puts the onus on ATC to assure that what you read back is what they intended.

As for glide distances while flying, The flat surfaced earth is the single engine pilot's utopia. It's the huge crop fields in midwestern North America, I've flown over them, you could land safely most anywhere if it quit. Other than that, you will spend a lot of your flying career flying over surfaces upon which a forced landing is not going to work out well at all. the charts show these surfaces well. If you don't want to fly over them, don't. If you choose to fly there, prepare for the risk. Carry whatever you need (lifejackets?) and take the extra care that you are flying an airworthy aircraft, in suitable conditions of flight. I have had 4 single engined aircraft engine failures in 5000 hours. Three were related to the affects of ice, one to the affects of mice (aircraft not airworthy!)

Worry less, allocate your attention appropriately, and follow your plan (which includes checklists)

Fly safely, and enjoy.

Pilot DAR

bjornhall
5th Jun 2009, 14:27
I mean that if you'd have to make a list of things to go through while flying what would there be? What my list at the moment includes is basics (maintaining altitude and heading, trimming the plane), radio frequencies (com, nav, FIR, ATIS), navigation instruments (VOR, ADF, they won't let us use GPS... http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif), staying on the map, checklists, updating flight plan (estimating times and fuel consumption) and contacting ATC units. So going that list in my mind in sense of items in the list at the moment and near future. Is there something to be added to that list?

Great replies already, just some more items I think should be on such a list:

1) Scanning for traffic! That is where almost all one's visual attention should be IMHO; in the process, one also picks up the landmarks (and enjoys the view! :) ) Not sure if there is any traffic in Finland ;) but might be good to look out just in case...

2) Monitor engine instruments

3) Monitor and re-evaluate progress. Is the weather changing? When following up my flight plan, do I see any disturbing trends? Is there a need to change my plans?

4) Think ahead. What is going to happen in the next 5 minutes, 10 minutes and 30 minutes? Are there any preparations I should do a this point?

It is becoming a rather long list, and that is my main point: I don't think "running through a list" is the way to go about this. There is far too much going on, some of which should be routine activities, some event-driven and some pro-active.

Going through a list focuses one's attention on the list; there might be less chance of missing items on the list, but there is a higher risk of missing what is not on the list.

Of course, JHMO, no more no less...

IO540
5th Jun 2009, 16:51
OK, stuff one may be doing during a flight:

After takeoff, climb straight ahead until clear of obstacles. Monitor engine performance - must be as per book performance.

Trim forward for the desired climb speed (for engine cooling etc).

Turn onto the GPS track, or fly to he initial waypoint if doing DR.

Climb to desired level; when nearly reached trim forward for desired cruise speed, when this is reached reduce power setting to the correct one for that cruise speed.

During all above steps, look out for traffic. Hard to do during the first bit of the climb, due to pitch attitude. Monitor engine performance.

If using GPS then simply fly the loaded route, otherwise at initial waypoint (which could be the airfield overhead, though this is not a good idea due to traffic) set heading to next waypoint and start stopwatch.

If not using GPS then enroute to the first waypoint, look at indications that the winds aloft forecast is rubbish (ground features appearing too far left/right too early/late) and adjust heading by say 5 degrees. (There are all kinds of clever tricks one can do here but hey this is just a PPL and you buy a GPS for any real flying).

Look out for traffic, while flying the pre-planned route both laterally and vertically. Monitor engine performance, fuel, etc etc. Call up the next appropriate station, or call nobody, but always have the radio tuned to a live station so if you make a mayday call somebody will hear.

With a GPS it is far easier because you get lateral guidance and, assuming it is a good one, you can see your position relative to features on the chart. Using DR, the cockpit workload is high and it is important to be able to fly an accurate heading and speed. Some people enjoy that sort of thing but if going somewhere for real I stick the autopilot on and enjoy the scenery while looking out for traffic and monitoring everything.

VFR, one needs to watch the weather conditions; in general this means remaining below cloud. If the cloudbase gets too low, turn back / divert etc.

One could go on...

RTN11
6th Jun 2009, 09:16
I used to draw on my map along the leg where I wanted to do FREDA checks, change frequencies, cut offs for any clearances (e.g. entering a MATZ) and so on.

I found this much easier than constantly having to refer to both map and plog to find where I was, and when i next needed to change tanks or frequencies.

The absolute key to flying VFR dead reackoning is a Very Good Look Out. If you look out both to the sides and far ahead, you will see any nav features in advance and won't find yourself constantly looking at the map trying to pin point your posistion.