IMC Rating Priveleges?

[noblues]

Hi,

Please can someone tell me additional privileges the IMC rating gives a JAR/CAA PPL holder?

What would be the limits for a precision and non-precision approach, and where is this published?

Thanks

[Keygrip]

Lasors or ANO.

[Whopity]

UK ANO Schedule 8 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap393.pdf
Instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes)
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), within the United Kingdom an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) rating entitles:
(a) the holder of a United Kingdom Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) or a United Kingdom Basic Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) to fly as pilot in
command of an aeroplane without being subject to the restrictions contained respectively in paragraph (2)(c) or (f) of the privileges of the United Kingdom Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) or paragraph (3)(g) or (i) of the privileges of the United Kingdom Basic Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes); and
(b) the holder of a JAR-FCL Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane in Class D or E airspace in circumstances which require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules.
(2) The rating does not entitle the holder of the licence to fly:
(a) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 3 km; or
(b) when the aeroplane is taking off or landing at any place if the flight visibility below cloud is less than 1800 metres.
UK AIP AD 1.1.2 NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html)
3.3.2 IMC Rating Holder in Current Practice
3.3.2.1 Pilots with a valid Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) Rating are recommended to add 200 ft to the minimum applicable DH/MDH, but with absolute minima of 500 ft for a precision approach and 600 ft for a non-precision approach. The UK IMC Rating may not be valid outside UK territorial airspace, therefore IMC Rated pilots should check the validity of their rating for the State in which they intend to fly. If the rating is not valid pilots must comply with the basic licence privileges, subject to the regulations of that State.
3.3.3 Pilots not in Current Practice
3.3.3.1 If a pilot is not in current practice he should try to avoid having to make an instrument approach in bad weather. If he has to make such an approach, even if he is fully confident of his abilities, he is advised to add 100 ft to his calculated DH/MDH. Further increments should be added depending on when the pilot was last in full practice, and his or her familiarity with the aircraft, the procedure and the aerodrome environment. Note the above is a recommendation, the legal minima is the system minima.
If you are thinking of exercising the privileges of an IMC rating, surely you should know where to find them!

[DFC]

Note the above is a recommendation, the legal minima is the system minima.

System minima does not take obstacles into account!!! To use system minima would be very dangerous especially when obstacles dictate higher minima.

Some of us here remember the old "Air Pilot" - what was the UK AIP before the IAIP was introduced.

In that document the CAA published the CAT A minima for every published instrument approach.

The AIP in those times made it very clear that those minima were only for IR holders in current practice. The privileges of the rating have not changed since that time.

Those of us who have been round long enough to remember that know that you will fail your IMC rating test - be it initial or renewal if you fail to corectly calculate the minima for precision and non-precision approaches i.e. you will tell the examiner that with a published DH of 200ft, your DH will be 500ft and you abide by that DH.

How people abide by CAA legal notifications outside the training and testing environment is up to them.

People seem to have a problem with the english language and what the AIP says. As was pointed out elsewhere - considder the following statement-

When driving round a sharp bend on a roadway where the speedlimit is 50mph you are told by the roadsigns-

"It is recomended that you drive at 40mph or less but with an absolute maximum of 50mph".

Does anyone think that the national speed limit of 60mph applies in that case when they are driving a ferrari with superiour cornering? Is it ok for Jensen Button to drive round there at 70 because after all he is a very good driver?

I think that it is safe to say that many people will drive faster than 50mph in that example but they know that they are breaking the law and simply hope that they don't get caught. None of them tell other drivers that such actions are legal. They may however encourage others do drive as they do - and knowingly break the law.

Regards,

DFC

[noblues]

Thanks for the replies.

At the end of the day private cat minima is advisory from what I understand?

[belowradar]

Beware.....an opinion follows -

Gravity and granite don't care what bit of paper is in your back pocket. If you are flying in IMC and shooting approaches you should stay proficient and current.

The ILS localiser gets more sensitive the lower you get so it makes sense to practice all approaches to the published minima. By all means add 200 feet as a SOP if you wish for an extra margin.

I don't buy the argument of a second rate instrument flyer. Flying single pilot in cloud is not something to do if you are a bit out of practice (IR or IMC).

Also you will start to believe that you can't fly to the minima and then if you need to due incorrect forecast you won't be happy to do so. What happens when you divert and still can't break cloud on an ILS at 500 feet e.g. ceiling 300 feet overcast ? Do you just throw your hands up and die rather than ignore some quite sensible "GUIDANCE"

Feeling happier now that I have got that out !

[DFC]

First of all the regulations require that both actual and forecast weather be taken into acount.

Secondly, any well trained instrument flier will select an alternate where the weather was not only actually but also forecasted to be a sensible margin above the applicable minima i.e. if you use 500ft ceiling and 1800m as a minima for the destination (precision approach) then perhaps 1000ft ceiling and 3Km for the alternate would be appropriate. If the destination forecast / actual is below minima then make sure that two alternates are available.

Thirdly, if all else fails then declare an emergency and not only is that 45 minutes final reserve fuel going to be put to better use but also one will find that one can legally fly to lower minima if it is essential (report required).

When it comes to not understanding the limits of aviation forecasts etc etc IMCrating holders on average are no worse than IR holders. The met forecasting and reporting system is set-up to let us know when certain critical ceilings and visibilities are passed (up or down) because these are of interest to either VFR or IFR flights. Unfortunately if one looks up these critical figures in the lower regions of ceiling and visibility they are very much tailored towards the IR holder. In fact one could argue that the way the met system is set up puts the IMC rated pilot at what could best be described as a distinct disadvantage.

As a non-specific example xyz airport has an ILS with 200ft minima. The ceiling is 500ft, if that lowers to 400ft, the met office will not issue a special report to tell everyone because as they see it there is no problem it is still well above the minima which is fine if you are an IR holder using those minima but not for the IMC rated pilot who was expecting to get in with a 500ft ceiling and is wondering why he had to do a missed approach after not seeing anything.

I would encourage every IMC holder to practice flying to lower minima (note I said practice) and more accurately than is required simply to scrape a pass in the skill test. In VMC with a safety pilot you can try flying the ILS to a 50ft DH under the hood if you want to get right into the sensitive parts!! You could even fly in IMC to a 200ft DH provided that the PIC has an IR.

Perhaps it may surprise some that the CAA's biggest problem with the IMC rating useage is not with minima (very few actually bust minima in the UK) it is actually the fact that the IMC rating does not prepare pilots for extended enroute flight in IMC and as below radar has highlighted, it does not provide much operational knowledge / skills required to operate in the IFR system. New IR holders are a bit better but they have the advantage of being able to get more assistance from the ATS system.

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

Please can someone tell me additional privileges the IMC rating gives a JAR/CAA PPL holder?1) IFR in Class D-G (UK airspace only). Min vis of 1800m for arrivals and departures under IFR.

2) No need to be in sight of surface for VFR so can fly above a solid overcast (no territorial restriction on this one)

3) VFR min visibility is reduced from 3000m to 1500m (no territorial restriction on this one)

4) Some SVFR differences (can't remember)

What would be the limits for a precision and non-precision approach, and where is this published?Same as the full IR. The minima are as per the approach plate.

the IMC rating does not prepare pilots for extended enroute flight in IMC

Nooooooooooooooooooooo not that one again :ugh:

[puntosaurus]

Whopity gave you chapter and verse from the source, beware interpretations.

1) IFR in Class D-G (UK airspace only).

The question asked about additional privileges. A PPL is perfectly at liberty (though perhaps best not advised) to fly IFR in class F&G (uncontrolled) airspace.

[Pace]

When driving round a sharp bend on a roadway where the speedlimit is 50mph you are told by the roadsigns-

"It is recomended that you drive at 40mph or less but with an absolute maximum of 50mph".

DFC

Most corner limits are advisory its only the ones with Red surrounds which are compulsory :)

If advisory foot hard down and see how much quicker than the advisory speed you can make the corner ;)

Pace sorry couldnt resist my jest :)

[DFC]

Whopity gave you chapter and verse from the source, beware interpretations.


Unfortunately they made a dangerous mistake when they said that the applicable minima was the system minima.

System minima for CAT 1 ILS is 200ft

Try using that minima when the published DH is 350ft.

The CAA have notified the minima in that case as;

IR holder 350ft DH

IMC holder recomended 550ft DH but absolute limit of 500ft DH


A PPL is perfectly at liberty (though perhaps best not advised) to fly in conditions requiring compliance with IFR in class F&G (uncontrolled) airspace


In class F and G by day the only circumstances which requires compliance with IFR is when flying in IMC since then VFR is not an option. Unless one holds a valid IR or IMC rating then flight in IMC is not an option in class F or G.

By night a PPL with night qualification is required when flying outside controlled airspace to comply with the IFR. However, the licence privileges still limit the pilot to VMC.

within the United Kingdom an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) rating entitles:


That seems like a clear territorial limitation ro me!



Most corner limits are advisory its only the ones with Red surrounds which are compulsory http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

If advisory foot hard down and see how much quicker than the advisory speed you can make the corner


Glad that you agree with what I said -

"It is recomended that you drive at (the advisory speed) or less but with an absolute maximum of (the speed limit)".

Easy to understand that or does it not say that the speed limit is the absolute maximum speed to drive at?

More importantly is that when a driving instructor teaches a new driver they will not be teaching the "keep the foot down hard method".

Regards,

DFC