OAA-APP First Officer Skills Assessment

[gabino86]

Hi,

I have been invited over for an assement as part of the OAA/FLYBE training scheme. I was wondering what and how to prepare? Any recommended sites or tips?

Any words of advice are greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Gabino

[mini-jumbo]

Lots of info on OAA's forum

[Boeing 77W]

All you need to know ask.oxfordaviation.net • View topic - Skills Assessment Explained (http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4412) :ok:

[TheBeak]

Any words of advice are greatly appreciated.


Sure......don't do it right now - it's the best advice you'll get.

[Al K Trazz]

congrats on gettin invited. I got turned down. best of luck to you!!

[jksamra]

hey there, i've been invited aswell...also really unsure of what to expect...good luck!

[Asianberry]

Hello everyone, I was thinking to apply for the APP first officer next April. I finished my A-levels last June and currently on my gap year. Can anyone give me some advice on how to prepare for the interview and all other stuffs, please. Thank you.

[Scott Duch]

Hmm risky, that's all i can say. Go to uni with your A-Levels. I am, doing Aeronautical Engineering and really enjoying it!

[One9iner]

As a fellow wannabe, I've not yet applied to the Oxford system, but I know 'TheBeak' did, and subsequently completed training and is now on the other side so listen to the chap!!!

Edit: Beak . hope you don't mind me quoting you

[Asianberry]

Pilot training in University is a bit time consuming I think, and when OAA offers pilot training with an academic Foundation Degree in Air Transport Management, why not try for OAA?

[student88]

OAA offers pilot training with an academic Foundation Degree in Air Transport Management, why not try for OAA?

Without wishing to cause offence - that degree is about as useful as two short planks. If you're going to do a degree, make it a useful one.

S88

[norton2005]

I to am an OAA grad and although I loved it there, the degree they offer there is a joke, most people on courses there actually dont even bother with it. But except for that its a brilliant place to do your training.

[pilotho]

back to the subject of the thread. main thing to do is to get your GCSE maths and physics back up to scratch. in addition learn as much about yourself and flybe, read the news section on the flybe website. a lot of airline interview involve a lot of questions from their website so it's that hard to be honest.

as with the degree from OAA, it has very mixed views. personally, i already had a degree upon joining OAA and i never liked distant learning and it's exactly what the course is. my advice is therefore not to base your choice of flying school on a foundation degree

[assymetricdrift]

At the moment, I think that everybody going into flight training needs a back up option. Be that a degree, or a previous career etc...

I only say this because I know many people who went straight from school into flight training when the going was good - and now have emerged on the otherside without a job, and joined the hundreds, ne thousands, of people at the end of the line, with no jobs and looking around. When you put this together with the number who were made redundant from airlines going bust, you'll see it's a bleak market.

Whereas it will pick up eventually, now is not a time to be taking a £70000 gamble on a small chance without some form of back up plan.

I went to Oxford and got out of it about 2 years ago now, and was one of the lucky ones. But guys, before you committ to the training, can you please just ask yourself:

1/ Do I know what the impacts of spending/borrowing this amount of money are? (I want to buy a house, but quite simply cannot get the mortgage because of the amount of debt I'm in, even though I do earn money)

2/ If it all goes to dogs, what will I do at the end of the course?

3/ Yet again, if there's no chance of a job, how am I going to retain currency on my CPL/IR? - here I know quite a few people who have not flown in 2 years now because they can't afford it.

4/ What is my backup plan? Does my education support it? And if I do that, will I be able to pay back the minimum amount to the bank each month, while still being able to rent and live outside of it?

That's all really, and that's my advice to anyone who is thinking about starting training now.

Cheers - AD :}

[james1013]

I'd agree with the previous post. I'm ex-oxford integrated graduate and now earn peanuts as a part time instructor, not the outcome I had expected. But £70K later (+ an FI course) I'm a bit older and wiser and have had my eyes well and truly opened to the realities of an aviation career. If I had my time over again I would buy a Porsche with the money and not bother or would have gone the modular route. It seems to me that when times are good the integrated route has the slight advantage that it might get you a BA interview, in all other circumstances then I fail to see the advantages of integrated - perhaps an airline recruiter could comment on the pros and cons from their perspective?

On a more positive note, I'm glad in a way that circumstances have sent me down the FI route, as although the money is poor I'm getting a fantastic opportunity to hone my piloting skills and really get to understand flying and how to explain it to PPLers. Plus if I ever get into a right hand seat then I'll have a good fall back. It's my opinion that all pilots, at any level, should keep a toe in GA flying.

In summary, go modular, aim/budget to add an FI rating and make plan A to spend some time teaching. If plan B turns out to be a twin jet type rating immediately after training then consider it a bonus.

[ford cortina]

I have no idea why I am bothering to write this, but here goes.
In the latest issue of BALPA's magazine, The log, there is a article on training, it quotes that out of 250 Oxford graduates this year ONLY 80 have got a job.
So do you feel lucky?

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Without wishing to cause offence - that degree is about as useful as two short planks.

Which are rather useful if you're into snowblading, but point understood :)

ford cortina,

I've noticed a peculiar phenomenon in recent years - the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get!

:ok:

[ford cortina]

So you are prepared to take a 2 in 3 chance you will NOT get a job and then are prepared to blow £65,000.00+, of yours or someone else's money, ie: the Banks.
you could buy a new Porsche 911 for that and have some change left over.
As I said I am wasting my time trying to blah blah blah you are not listening are you:ugh::ugh: you really are half baked

[student88]

It's not even a 2 in 3 chance because I'd say that quite a few of them 80 'employed' cadets are ones who've basically bought a job with Ryanair. They shouldn't really be included in the figures. Harsh, but true.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Mr Cortina,

Why so conflictual?

It was a statement, not a plan for life, that's up to the individual!

The real halfbaked cookies can take their £65,000 and use it to supplement such dreams as they may have, it's their business really isn't it?

Decisions in all walks of life are best taken following the observations of others (mis)fortunes (experience?) and a careful analysis of such push and pull factors as may be relevant.

Many don't posses this patience and as a result end up pissing what they already have into the wind in pursuit of a balloon which will just slip further away from their grasp.

They engage gear before clutch.

Sound familiar?

Come on, let's keep it civil :ok:

[BigNumber]

I expect that nearly 80 of them are enjoying life with BRK!

[170to5]

A little pause for thought, hopefully for those who haven't already thought about it...

Jobs at the moment, in any sector, are down to an absolute minimum.

If you are going to pay c£550 a month on a training loan having taken the integrated route (for the moment ignore the final number, it IS difficult to appreciate how much it is, and I'm not being sarcastic etc, I find it a difficult number to genuinely quantify), you need to understand that in the likely event that you don't get a job straight after finishing, you have to get a job covering this amount before you even begin to pay for petrol, the credit card, going out, blah blah blah.

I realise this sounds obvious. But it is a LOT of money each month, and at the moment all of you who are thinking about doing integrated training (which has a fairly cemented end date) have to consider that there will be a queue as long as all of your arms put together of people who have more experience than you trying to get back into the job market. This includes those pilots laid off from bmi/bmibaby/bmiregional, BA, easyJet (be they CTC cadets with 500 hours or not - that's 500 hours, a type rating, and a shoe-in more than most of you), Thomas Cook (the same applies), Monarch (see previous 2), Aer Lingus (we hear), and any number of other carriers that you can think of.

That means that there may well be, at best, a 2 year wait for the cadet places to come back. You will probably still find yourselves paying another 30 grand (£300pcm) to go and work for the blue and yellows. Who have just been given a no-negotiation pay cut.

That's £850 a month.

But if you don't get the job with Ryanair, or, and DON'T underestimate this bit, can't get the bank to lend you another 30 grand, which is increasingly the case, there are no jobs on civvy street to pay your £550pcm, and no flying jobs unless you get a lucky break. And there are almost none of them around. It is very scary on the first day of the month when you have shelled out your loan, and still have rent, bills, petrol, food, and anything else you can think of. This may well be the biggest recession since the 30's, people may talk about this one in future as being bigger than the 70's and early 80's...and people have to understand, from people who have already spent the money, how dangerous it is stepping into training at the moment. Most of my friends who are in work (and that includes me) are hopeful that we will keep our jobs, but as the recession deepens, there will without doubt be further redundancies, and more experienced, type rated pilots to fit into the queue ahead of the 250 hour (150 actual flight time) cadets.

That's a long way back from the front of the queue.

The boom will last a few years, and the first few will be spent getting guys back into work. It's not a good time to start. There aren't any green shoots of recovery yet. Can you predict when the turnaround will come?

[170to5]

Also, remember that to go integrated, you'll have to give up any job that you're currently doing to someone else - that job probably won't be there if you need it when you've finished your training.

Also, doing an FI rating isn't a bad idea, but you may have to travel to work. Which means not living at home, so any thoughts of saving money by living there are negated. There are also long lines of FI's looking for work.

[170to5]

I have to agree with spicejetter.

It isn't just what I think, the actual truth of the matter is that people who pay for a TR, line training and hours on type (Eagle Jet, anyone?) are responsible for the damage being done to the industry. Companies see that people are willing to PAY to do a job, and adjust the going rate to reflect this.

It is a sad reflection on the state of the industry to say that I'm relieved (glad is not a particularly pleasant way of saying it) to see the back of people who would otherwise pay to get into a seat. To those people I'd say: this isn't a way to get over your wet dream of flying an airliner - it's my job, my living, and I will aggressively protect myself and my companions from anyone trying to steal what would be a job to those who have earned, by hard work, the right to be there...that includes people with huge wads of cash who spend it fairly and sensibly.

[Propellerhead]

Hang on, the guy's applying for the OAA/FLYBE scheme so if all goes well he should walk into a job with flybe in 12 months time. There won't be many modular people getting jobs in 12 months still so I say go for it. Of course, like everything, there is no guarantee of a job, buts it's the closest thing to one right now.

[170to5]

Trick is, are Flybe so secure that he's guaranteed to still have a job waiting for him when he gets out? Genuine question by someone who doesn't know, how secure are Flybe guys at the moment? I heard there are hard times going on over their/your gaff too...

Also sounds pretty patchy to say 'best shot of a job at the moment'...you're right of course, but surely it would then make more sense to wait for a while and see the market picking up?

[G SXTY]

Careful, that’s how rumours start . . . Flybe are as ‘secure’ as anyone in the industry, and while there are never any guarantees, I can think of few airlines with safer job prospects at the moment.

The airline has a robust business model, tight control of costs, and an aircraft that can make money with very few passengers on board. It also has a group of cadets being type rated on the Dash as we speak. Note that’s for permanent jobs, without any requirement to pay for a type rating. I can’t think of any other UK airlines doing that just now.

[hollingworthp]

Even from the 'outside' looking in - I would say FlyBe are more solid than most. Particularly if Oil goes north again.

[clanger32]

As a genuine question to those who suggest that anyone who can "afford to sit out the bad times" - are you REALLY so myopic as to think this grouping is really constituted only of the 17 year old offspring of multi millionaires?
Has it not occurred to you that people such as me exist - 35 years old with a very nice career backing me up (and indeed propping me up since finishing my training)? Does it not occur that the MAJORITY of people in this group are probably like me?

I also particularly love comments where people "vigourously defend" their [proprietory] industry against the tyranny of people paying for TRs, with no recognition at all of the irony that actually, any single one of us that has paid our own money towards professional training has helped the whole thing down that slippery path....after all, if people only embarked on professional licences for fun or when an employer offered them an "apprenticeship" type role, then Ts&Cs would be excellent. Strange how perspective is limited to how our own actions are acceptable, but those of others are not.
Let's face it, what's the difference, in reality, between paying for the base licence to do the generic job you hope somone to pay you for and paying for the advanced licence to let you do a specific job...they both indicate to the employer that they can let someone else take that risk...

As to Flybe - of all the airlines likely to go bust, they'd be near the top of my list of those likely to come out stronger than ever. That said, this time last year, who bet on Jenson Button being world Champion? You can never tell what the future holds, but barring unforseen disasters, I would think Flybe are safe...

[170to5]

clanger

I'll assume that was aimed at me...I was referring to the people who pay for line training and even hours on type.

I'd love to have had my training paid for, but the days of that are pretty much over, and have been for some time (since 2001)...nice to see that some companies are still doing it though...

And yes, I realise that Flybe are pretty much one of the most secure lines out there at the moment - whatever that means - suppose I was just thinking out loud...